Some things written by the RCC are shocking.

[Arial]

You keep slipping the R in there.... ... we have already been over this. Spend some time looking at early Christian history and get back to me.

I am not slipping it in there. I am putting it where it belongs. Removing it is just another RCC move to try and appear to to have given up some of their beliefs that they have not given up. And to further solidify the unauthorised authority they have given themselves to proclaim themselves the one and only true church of Christ----even though much of their teachings and traditions are blatantly anti-Christ.

It is simply a "politically correct" way in which they want to be seen and referred to. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck---by golly it's still a duck.

 

[Carbon]

Did you read it?

Yes. I’m just amazed that you actually believe it. Outside the RCC even though you won’t dare say so. You just say the Church.

 

[Arial]

reread Mt 16 and look for the keys

I have probably read it over a hundred times and there are no actual keys. It is a metaphor. I have never seen in it any mention of a pope or successive Peter's, or the RCC. What I see is the eyes of Peter being opened by God to see just exactly who Jesus is. A spiritual revelation that can only be given by the Spirit. The kingdom of God and all its parts, which Peter and the other apostles would lay down as the foundation (doctrinal truths) of His church. Those who believe are in the kingdom. Those who do not, are not.

And it can't be the RCC because they say no one can come to Jesus except through them and their traditions. Whereas Jesus says that no one can come to Him unless the Father grants it. Jesus says all who believe have eternal life. Whereas the RCC says all who come to their priests. eat the flesh and blood of Jesus under the blessing of their priest, who pray to Mary to intercede for them with Jesus, are baptised by one of their priests, come to their priests for forgiveness and perform a penance designated by their priest, pass safely through purgatory by a form of indulgences and the prayers of dead "saints" (also appointed by the RCC hierarchy), then and only then will anyone be saved.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Yes. I’m just amazed that you actually believe it.

Faith is a funny thing. Faith that Christ meant what He said.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I have probably read it over a hundred times and there are no actual keys. It is a metaphor.

and I have pointed you to the following:

Does Chamberlain/Prime Minister/Steward help?

Joseph under Pharaoh
Daniel under Nebuchadnezzar
Mordecai over the house of Haman
Eliakim to the house of Judah
Peter - Kingdom of Christ

 

[Arial]

and I have pointed you to the following:

Does Chamberlain/Prime Minister/Steward help?

Joseph under Pharaoh
Daniel under Nebuchadnezzar
Mordecai over the house of Haman
Eliakim to the house of Judah
Peter - Kingdom of Christ

I notice that you did not address any of the content of the post. I got the usual---purported authority according to the RCC's self appointed authority over all things pertaining to Scripture. It means nothing to me until you have first established that authority without reading it into the Scriptures.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I notice that you did not address any of the content of the post

I did... do you not understand? the keys represent authority

Eduard Schweizer (Presbyterian/Reformed) --

"In Jewish interpretation, the key of David refers to the teachers of the Law (exiled in Babylon); according to Matthew 23:13, the 'keys of the Kingdom of heaven' are in the hands of the teachers of the Law. A contrast is here drawn between them and Peter. He is thus not the gatekeeper of heaven, but the steward of the Kingdom of heaven upon earth. His function is described in more detail as 'binding and loosing' ....the saying must from the very outset have referred to an authority like that of the teachers of the Law. In this context, 'binding" and 'loosing' refer to the magisterium to declare a commandment binding or not binding....For Matthew, however, there is only one correct interpretation of the Law, that of Jesus. This is accessible to the community through the tradition of Peter...Probably we are dealing here mostly with teaching authority, and always with the understanding that God must ratify what Petrine tradition declares permitted or forbidden in the community." (Schweizer, page 343)

 

[Carbon]

I did... do you not understand? the keys represent authority

Eduard Schweizer (Presbyterian/Reformed) --

"In Jewish interpretation, the key of David refers to the teachers of the Law (exiled in Babylon); according to Matthew 23:13, the 'keys of the Kingdom of heaven' are in the hands of the teachers of the Law. A contrast is here drawn between them and Peter. He is thus not the gatekeeper of heaven, but the steward of the Kingdom of heaven upon earth. His function is described in more detail as 'binding and loosing' ....the saying must from the very outset have referred to an authority like that of the teachers of the Law. In this context, 'binding" and 'loosing' refer to the magisterium to declare a commandment binding or not binding....For Matthew, however, there is only one correct interpretation of the Law, that of Jesus. This is accessible to the community through the tradition of Peter...Probably we are dealing here mostly with teaching authority, and always with the understanding that God must ratify what Petrine tradition declares permitted or forbidden in the community." (Schweizer, page 343)

Represent authority is right. And that authority was not given to a pope nor was it given to the Church of Rome.

 

[Carbon]

Faith is a funny thing. Faith that Christ meant what He said.

That’s not funny.

 

[Carbon]

Faith is a funny thing. Faith that Christ meant what He said.

If your pope and Church only listened to Luther.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Represent authority is right. And that authority was not given to a pope nor was it given to the Church of Rome.

The authority was given to Peter and the other apostles... they were the first of the 'universal church'.... Peter and Paul died in Rome which is where the church 'set up office'. easy peasy

 

[Arch Stanton]

If your pope and Church only listened to Luther.

we would be ---

Gal 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

 

[donadams]

Pentecost.

The holy spirit leads the apostles, the apostolic fathers, and the bishops into all truth (Jn 16:13) then there are under command from Christ to teach us! Matt 28:19

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

Thks

 

[donadams]

Peter wasn't the Pope. And the Pope is not Peter.

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Isa 22:21-22 father (pope means papa / father) with key of authority over the kingdom

Matt 16:16-19 Peter declared blessed, head of the church (on earth) key (signs) of jurisdictional authority

Matt 17:27 It is Jesus Christ who identifies only peter with himself.
Not the other apostles

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Acts 15:7 God chose Peter


Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

3rd time for Peter to receive “spirit baptism”! He must be special for some reason! Jn 20:22 acts 2:4


1 pet 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

No reason to give the person of Peter the keys of the kingdom, “Thee outward sign” of jurisdictional authority if not to govern and administer the kingdom until Christ returns in glory!

To be the chief pastor and teacher of the faithful!

Matt 16:17-19
Why is Peter even mentioned?
Why does Jesus change His name?
Why does Jesus say Peter is blessed?
Why does Jesus give Peter the keys of the kingdom (jurisdictional authority)
Why does Jesus give Peter power to bind and loose?
Why does scripture say God chose Peter? Acts 15:7
What does Peter standing up signify? Acts 1:15 & 15:7


Matt 16:17
Jesus declares Peter’s person not confession to be blessed!

Peter is the rock chosen by God!

Peter’s person is blessed and chosen not Peter’s confession?

Peter’s person has the keys of jurisdictional authority!

 

[Carbon]

The authority was given to Peter and the other apostles... they were the first of the 'universal church'....

Yes I can agree with who it was give to. And yes they were the first of the church in the new covenant.

Peter and Paul died in Rome which is where the church 'set up office'. easy peasy

But this isn’t fact about Peter. Just tridition. And the church was set up in Rime huh?

Check your history .

 

[Carbon]

we would be ---

Gal 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

lol. Sad

 

[donadams]

God said this.


God chose these men.


Men added this to the Word of God.


Men completely changed what God ordained into a human power-wielding hierarchy that directly contradicts the teaching of Jesus on “rulers” in His kingdom.


God said this.

QED.
The issue is not with Jesus plan or what God will do “until Jesus returns”, but with the human oral traditions that got added to it and corrupted the message and plan of Christ. Jesus had the same issue with the HUMAN TRADITIONS that the Jews added to God’s OT Laws (so why on earth would God want to recreate that FAILURE in His new covenant?).

There are no human traditions of men, the new covenant religion is revealed by christ to his apostolic church eph 4:5 jude 1:3

Christ said matt 16:18 i will build my church so all others are just error teaching sects the tradition of men!

 

[donadams]

God said this.


God chose these men.


Men added this to the Word of God.


Men completely changed what God ordained into a human power-wielding hierarchy that directly contradicts the teaching of Jesus on “rulers” in His kingdom.


God said this.

QED.
The issue is not with Jesus plan or what God will do “until Jesus returns”, but with the human oral traditions that got added to it and corrupted the message and plan of Christ. Jesus had the same issue with the HUMAN TRADITIONS that the Jews added to God’s OT Laws (so why on earth would God want to recreate that FAILURE in His new covenant?).

Does paul teach tradition?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Yes I can agree with who it was give to. And yes they were the first of the church in the new covenant.

But this isn’t fact about Peter.

which part? dying in Rome?

 

[donadams]

Agreed! Strange that @Arch Stanton and @donadams must stall and equivocate!

Do Christian’s owe obedience to Christ?