Luther tried

[Arch Stanton]

@Arch Stanton
I am going to delete post #269. I had already told you it was not my post to condense. It is @Josheb post. And then you go move it into this thread, not even as a quote, just a copy paste and without giving the author credit. If Josh wants to move it over here and discuss it with you, that is up to him.

You offered no discussion just posted a question mark. But the fact that you could not see the connection between what was said regarding a form of dissociation that causes a person to be unable to comprehend or respond to what is said in opposition to their beliefs, one so deep seated at brain level that the brain cannot access the opposing information or maybe only unable to process the opposing information is a clear example of the very thing that was stated.

It is the foundational tactic used by cults in what is known as brainwashing.

I clicked on the link you provided and then clicked on reply... not sure if there was/is a glitch

 

[Eleanor]

any

1,500 years of authority and then man-made fallible interpretations enter

What kind of interpretations where there before the "man-made" ones.

 

[Arial]

I clicked on the link you provided and then clicked on reply... not sure if there was/is a glitch

There may have been a glitch, that I cannot say. But ordinarily the reply button would have reposted the entire content in a quote box with the authors name, If you had highlighted that one paragraph, it would have posted in a quote box with authors name "-------said."

 

[Arch Stanton]

What kind of interpretations where there before the "man-made" ones.

true ones

 

[Arch Stanton]

There may have been a glitch, that I cannot say. But ordinarily the reply button would have reposted the entire content in a quote box with the authors name, If you had highlighted that one paragraph, it would have posted in a quote box with authors name "-------said."

indeed... that is why I had to put paragraph 2 and his name....

 

[Eleanor]

true ones

So the words "truth" and "man" are opposed.

Did the apostles get the memo?

 

[Arch Stanton]

So the words "truth" and "man" are opposed.

only if they are man-made

man-made fallible interpretations

 

[David1701]

By bible alone? there are no keys in Mt 18... go back two chapters and they will appear

Oh boy! SMH!

What are the "keys"? Well, let's see...

Matt. 16:19 (EMTV) And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on the earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth will have been loosed in heaven.

Oh look, there they are (in bold). Now, let's compare that with Matt. 18:18 [spoken to the disciples as a whole].

Matt. 18:18 (EMTV) Assuredly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

 

[Eleanor]

only if they are man-made

So they, (man and truth) man-made man and man-made truth, are opposed. . .

 

[Arch Stanton]

Oh boy! SMH!

What are the "keys"? Well, let's see...

Matt. 16:19 (EMTV) And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on the earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on the earth will have been loosed in heaven.

Oh look, there they are (in bold). Now, let's compare that with Matt. 18:18 [spoken to the disciples as a whole].

Matt. 18:18 (EMTV) Assuredly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Joachim Jeremias in an extended passage from Kittel's Greek standard TDNT --

"...the key of David is now (3:7) the key which Christ has in His hands as the promised shoot of David. This is the key to God's eternal palace. The meaning of the description is that Christ has unlimited sovereignty over the future world. He alone controls grace and judgment. He decides irrevocably whether a man will have access to the salvation of the last age or whether it will be witheld from him...Materially, then, the keys of the kingdom of God are not different from the key of David...This is confirmed by the fact that in Mt. 16:19, as in Rev. 3:7, Jesus is the One who controls them. But in what sense is the power of the keys given to Peter? ....the handing over of the keys is not just future. It is regarded as taking place now... There are numerous instances to show that in biblical and later Jewish usage handing over the keys implies full authorisation. He who has the keys has full authority. Thus, when Eliakim is given the keys of the palace he is appointed the royal steward (Is. 22:22, cf. 15). When Jesus is said to hold the keys of death and Hades (Rev. 1:18) or the key of David (3:7), this means that He is, not the doorkeeper, but the Lord of the world of the dead and the palace of God...Hence handing over the keys implies appointment to full authority. He who has the keys has on the one side control, e.g., over the council chamber or treasury, cf. Mt. 13:52, and on the other the power to allow or forbid entry, cf. Rev. 3:7...Mt. 23:13 leads us a step further. This passage is particularly important for an understanding of Mt. 16:19 because it is the only one in the NT which presupposes an image not found elsewhere, namely, that of the keys of the kingdom (royal dominion) of God...Mt. 23:13 shows us that the scribes of the time of Jesus claimed to possess the power of the keys in respect of this kingdom...They exercised this by declaring the will of God in Holy Scripture in the form of preaching, teaching and judging. Thereby they opened up for the congregation a way into this kingdom...by acting as spiritual leaders of the congregation....As Lord of the Messianic community He thus transferred the keys of God's royal dominion, i.e. the full authority of proclamation, to Peter...In Rabb. lit. binding and loosing are almost always used in respect of halakhic decisions...The scribe binds (declares to be forbidden) and looses (declares to be permitted)...In Mt. 16:19, then, we are to regard the authority to bind and to loose as judicial. It is the authority to pronounce judgment on unbelievers and to promise forgiveness to believers." (Jeremias from Kittel/Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, volume 3, page 748-751)

 

[Arch Stanton]

So man and man-made truth are opposed. . .

man that was sent and man-made are opposed

 

[Eleanor]

man that was sent and man-made are opposed

Isn't that moving the goal post from "man" (fallen human nature) to "man that was sent" (sinless human nature), which moving you accuse others of doing?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Isn't that moving the goal post from "man" (fallen human nature) to "man that was sent" (sinless human nature), which moving you accuse others of doing?

are we in the same conversation? where did we talk about fallen human nature and sinless human nature?

 

[Eleanor]

are we in the same conversation? where did we talk about fallen human nature and sinless human nature?

When you proffered the word "man" (post #280).

 

[Arch Stanton]

When you proffered the word"man" (post #280).

man-made vs man sent

 

[Eleanor]

man-made vs man sent

Who made that rule?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Who made that rule?

The term "apostle" comes from the Greek word "apostello," meaning "to send forth" or "to dispatch."

 

[Eleanor]

The term "apostle" comes from the Greek word "apostello," meaning "to send forth" or "to dispatch."

Agreed. . .

And the term "church" comes from the Greek word "ekklesia," meaning "called-out assembly."

Relevance to the point (post #269)? . . .Spell it out.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Agreed. . .

relevant to 280

 

[Eleanor]

Agreed. . .

And the term "church" comes from the Greek word "ekklesia," meaning "called-out assembly."

Relevance to the point (post #269)? . . .Spell it out.

relevant to 280

That's a fail. . .