The Rapture

[CrowCross]

One from authoritative NT apostolic teaching, and another from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretion, which apostolic teaching is not.

You didn't answer the white horse question...remember...

9After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.10They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

....no white horse.

 

[CrowCross]

Assumes white horse in a higlhy figurative book is literal rather than figurative.

Time for a second repeat:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).

Would that "last day" refer to a particular 24 hour calander date in the future? Would it refer to the last date of a dispensation like the last day before the tribulation?

You need to clarify that term a bit better.

Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).

True

Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).

Who's taken? The saint to heaven or the sinner to hell?

(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)

Like a yo-yo?
Your posttrib rapture is a bummer...you'll miss the marrige supper of the lamb.

Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

Yes, this is not the rapture.

Authoritative NT apostolic teaching is that there is only one more return of Jesus, at the end of time.

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the rapture is (occurs at the time of) the judgment:

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

....So, the rapture isn't imminent?
Once the trib starts...won't you be able to add seven years to it and determine the date no one knows?

If one's personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) does not locate the rapture with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time, that interpretation is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching, thereby making it in error, for Scripture does not contradict itself.

 

[Selah7]

Where's the white horse?

There are two of them: Revelation 6:2 and Revelation 19:11-13. Can you spot the difference? (The horses are symbolic)

 

[GeneZ]

LOL....because you have no answer for it you say I put to much stock in it.

Those who follow such leads lack horse sense...

 

[CrowCross]

There are two of them: Revelation 6:2 and Revelation 19:11-13. Can you spot the difference? (The horses are symbolic)

Rev 6:2 is the anti-christ.....Rev 19 is Jesus.

The white horse is symbolic of what???

 

[Eleanor]

Would that "last day" refer to a particular 24 hour calander date in the future? Would it refer to the last date of a dispensation like the last day before the tribulation?
You need to clarify that term a bit better.
True
Who's taken? The saint to heaven or the sinner to hell?

What does Paul state in 1 Th 4:16-17? (Hint: "we")

Like a yo-yo?
Your posttrib rapture is a bummer...you'll miss the marrige supper of the lamb.
Yes, this is not the rapture.

Keeping in mind, you are not taking this from authoritative NT apostolic teaching (didactics), but from your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8), which interpretation is in disagreement with apostolic teaching.

....So, the rapture isn't imminent?

No, it is not. The man of lawlessness has yet to be revealed.

Once the trib starts...won't you be able to add seven years to it and determine the date no one knows?

That is taken from your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8).
NT apostolic teaching presents no such thing, and is in disagreement with your personal interpretation, as I demonstrated in post #527.

 

[GeneZ]

The four horses of the apocalypse are symbolic, methinks.

They are symbolic of actual realities....
Try concentrating on those realities.

 

[Selah7]

Rev 6:2 is the anti-christ.....Rev 19 is Jesus.

The white horse is symbolic of what???

You might want to read the thread called First and Second Seals. Hope it helps.

 

[GeneZ]

Rev 6:2 is the anti-christ.....Rev 19 is Jesus.

The white horse is symbolic of what???

Does not matter.
If its symbolic? It still means He will return, and then we will see what the symbol represents at that time it happens.

 

[CrowCross]

Keeping in mind, you are not taking this from authoritative NT apostolic teaching (didactics), but from your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8), which interpretation is in disagreement with apostolic teaching.

Who are they and what makes them right?

 

[CrowCross]

You might want to read the thread called First and Second Seals. Hope it helps.

I did. It didn't help. Sorry.

 

[CrowCross]

Does not matter.

I say it does matter or it wouldn't be in the bible.

If it's symbolic? It still means He will return, and then we will see what the symbol represents at that time it happens.

It may be as simple as this.....Horse. Or perhaps this.

Of course we do know Jesus didn't ascend on one of those "symbols" in the pictures.

 

[Eleanor]

Who are they and what makes them right?

I didn't mention any "they."

 

[CrowCross]

I didn't mention any "they."

Whatever...do you have an answer?

 

[Eleanor]

Whatever...do you have an answer?

Don't know what you mean by "they," not a word I used.

 

[Selah7]

Rev 6:2 is the anti-christ.....Rev 19 is Jesus.

The white horse is symbolic of what???

The first white horse is symbolic of deception—the first seal.

 

[CrowCross]

I didn't mention any "they."

Who wrote, formed...whatever the "authoritative NT apostolic teaching (didactics)"

 

[GeneZ]

Who are they and what makes them right?

She is not properly applying that passage. It does not apply to those called to teach in the Church.

Even so. We who are in Christ are a higher spiritual position before God (potentially) than Moses was!

Moses was part of the OT priesthood.

But as for the church?

We are a Royal priesthood!

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that ​

you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light." 1 Peter 2:9​

Jesus said that Moses longed for our day..

Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, ​

searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to ​

which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah ​

and the glories that would follow." 1 Peter 1:10-11​

The way most Christians behave today Peter's words come hard to believe.

We need to realize the reason why so many believers fall short of the thinking God wants to grant His church to manifest.

But He gives greater grace. Therefore it says: "God opposes the proud, ​

but gives grace to the humble." James 4:6​

​

The humble will know. As the proud will think they are better at being humble than the humble, not even knowing what true humility is.


grace and peace ......................

 

[Eleanor]

Who wrote, formed...whatever the "authoritative NT apostolic teaching (didactics)"

If you're asking about that phrase, it is basic Christian doctrine that the teaching of the apostles is the foundation and authority of the NT people of God, and it is my own phrase.

 

[GeneZ]

I say it does matter or it wouldn't be in the bible.

It may be as simple as this.....Horse. Or perhaps this.

Of course we do know Jesus didn't ascend on one of those "symbols" in the pictures.

Putin is in no shape these days to ride a horse, let alone walk and chew gum.

The Biblical discipline of Isagogics teaches the principle that we must take what something once was, and reveal it in today's equivalency.
........