The Rapture

[CrowCross]

As we descend to earth with him for the Final Judgment (sentencing) of the sheep and the goats.

Like I asked the others...where is the white horse?

 

[CrowCross]

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Raised at the LAST day not before the tribulation!

Darn...you mean we'll miss the marriage supper of the lamb? That's a bummer.

 

[Eleanor]

Like I asked the others...where is the white horse?

I give up, where is he?

 

[CrowCross]

I give up, where is he?

here???? 11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse!

 

[Eleanor]

here???? 11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse!

Bible 11 isn't in my Bible.

 

[GeneZ]

There are no dots in scripture that point to multiple future comings of the Lord!

What happened?
Run out of ink?

"Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? ​

And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. ​

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains ​

will do so until He is taken out of the way. " 2 Thes 2:5-7​

That says that the antichrist "system" is at work on earth right now!

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains ​

will do so until He is taken out of the way. "​

So what is restraining this evil system on earth? The Holy Spirit!

It says that the Holy Spirit must be removed before the Antichrist can be revealed to the world!

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains ​

will do so until He is taken out of the way. "​

How is the Holy Spirit to be taken out of the way?
The Church is indwelled by the Holy Spirit!
Meaning?

We first must be taken out of the way! Rapture!

That won't be the second coming quite yet.
For Jesus does not touch ground with the Rapture!
Jesus will be out of sight to the world in the Rapture!

​

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds ​

to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. " 1 Thes 4:17​

So much to learn (and to see with)!

grace and peace .............

 

[Eleanor]

What happened?
Run out of ink?

"Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? ​

And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. ​

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains ​

will do so until He is taken out of the way. " 2 Thes 2:5-7​

That says that the antichrist "system" is at work on earth right now!

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains ​

will do so until He is taken out of the way. "​

So what is restraining this evil system on earth? The Holy Spirit!
It says that the Holy Spirit must be removed before the Antichrist can be revealed to the world!

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains ​

will do so until He is taken out of the way. "​

How is the Holy Spirit to be taken out of the way?
The Church is indwelled by the Holy Spirit!
Meaning?
We first must be taken out of the way! Rapture!
That won't be the second coming quite yet.
For Jesus does not touch ground with the Rapture!
Jesus will be out of sight to the world in the Rapture!

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds ​

to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. " 1 Thes 4:17​

So much to learn (and to see with)!

Time for a repeat:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the rapture is (occurs at the time of) the judgment:

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

If one's personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) does not locate the rapture with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time, that interpretation is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching, thereby making it in error, for Scripture does not contradict itself.

 

[CrowCross]

Bible 11 isn't in my Bible.

What are you reading? The book of mormon?

 

[Wordsmith]

So what is restraining this evil system on earth? The Holy Spirit!

It says that the Holy Spirit must be removed before the Antichrist can be revealed to the world!

No scripture says this! This is pure assumption and opinion. Prove me wrong by posting the scripture that does say what you have claimed.

 

[Wordsmith]

Time for a repeat:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
(The saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, whereupon they descend with him to earth for the Final Judgment.)
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the rapture is (occurs at the time of) the judgment:

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

If one's personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) does not locate the rapture with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time, that interpretation is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching, thereby making it in error, for Scripture does not contradict itself.

Agreed. Why can’t the promoters of the pre-trib error produce scripture as you have? Answer, there is no scripture stating a pre- trib rapture.

 

[Eleanor]

What are you reading? The book of mormon?

It's your quote, post #491.

 

[Eleanor]

Agreed. Why can’t the promoters of the pre-trib error produce scripture as you have? Answer there is no scripture stating a pre- trib rapture.

Because there are none.

Oh, you said that, didn't you?

 

[Wordsmith]

Yes there is...as mentioned before...Jesus didn't leave riding a white horse. Now, if you can show that He did....I'll say you have a point.

Show us two different passages you believe show a pre-trib rapture that have identical wording on every aspect of His coming and I will say you have a point.

 

[Wordsmith]

How is the Holy Spirit to be taken out of the way?
The Church is indwelled by the Holy Spirit!
Meaning?

We first must be taken out of the way! Rapture!

That won't be the second coming quite yet.
For Jesus does not touch ground with the Rapture!
Jesus will be out of sight to the world in the Rapture!

Interesting story sounds like the “left behind” fiction. Chapter and verse please.

 

[GeneZ]

No scripture says this! This is pure assumption and opinion. Prove me wrong by posting the scripture that does say what you have claimed.

Scripture does reveal it.

Who is the Restrainer then that Paul speaks of?
And, how can he be taken out of the way?

We are not supposed to know?

 

[GeneZ]

Interesting story sounds like the “left behind” fiction. Chapter and verse please.

Fist clarify something for me, please?
Are you post millennial? amillennial?

 

[GeneZ]

What are you reading? The book of mormon?

You post left a link that looks like the number 11. If one clicks on that link they would soon find Revelation 19:11 in many translations.

Here is one...

​

And I saw heaven having been opened, and behold, a white horse, and the One sitting ​

upon it called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war."​

Read a little further down to verses 14-16. We get to see Him come more into focus.

The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, ​

white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ​

​

“He will rule them with an iron scepter.” ​

​

He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. ​

On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:​

​

king of kings and lord of lords.​

Now, who can that be? I wonder.

For the life of me, I just can not understand what makes some enjoy being contrary to the obvious.

grace and peace ................

 

[CrowCross]

No scripture says this! This is pure assumption and opinion. Prove me wrong by posting the scripture that does say what you have claimed.

Then who/what is the restrainer?

 

[CrowCross]

You post left a link that looks like the number 11. If one clicks on that link they would soon find Revelation 19:11 in many translations.

Here is one...

​

And I saw heaven having been opened, and behold, a white horse, and the One sitting ​

upon it called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war."​

Read a little further down to verses 14-16. We get to see Him come more into focus.

The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, ​

white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. ​

​

“He will rule them with an iron scepter.” ​

​

He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. ​

On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:​

​

king of kings and lord of lords.​

Now, who can that be? I wonder.

For the life of me, I just can not understand what makes some enjoy being contrary to the obvious.

grace and peace ................

It shows Christ returning to earth on a white horse...Key word, returning.

In acts 1 the angels say Jesus will return the same way He left.

In 1 Thes 4 Jesus is shown returning in the air...in the clouds at the rapture....there is no white horse.

It's obvious Jesus returns first at the rapture thena second time on the white horse where Jesus stands on the Mt. of Olives which splits.

 

[Wordsmith]

Then who/what is the restrainer?

Michael has the strength to do any task assigned to him by the Lord.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

When Michael “stands up” is when the “time of trouble” begins.

If Michael and his angels can eject satan and his angels from heaven, he very well can restrain the man of sin on this earth if so assigned by God almighty who created both Michael and satan. So any theory that stetes “The Holy Spirit of God is the only Person with sufficient (supernatural) power to do this restraining” is not factually correct.

In my opinion it makes no sense to say the Holy Spirit will be removed from anything or anywhere. The Holy Spirit is omnipresent and thus cannot and will not be removed from this earth.

If the Holy Spirit leaves with the church at a pretrib rapture how will anyone be saved after that?

Since it is clear there are born again, Jesus loving “Saints” here all through the tribulation, this Holy Spirit leaving doctrine is false.

Now if you want to argue it is just the church empowered by the Holy Spirit restraining the man of sin why could not those saints of the tribulation, that are born again with the same Holy Spirit restrain the evil one even if the rest of the church was gone?

It is not the working of iniquity that is being restrained it is the revealing of the man of sin as the man of sin that is restrained. That task can be assigned to Michael, if God so chooses for it is God who runs the universe.

I am not claiming Michael is absolutely the restrainer, I am claiming he could be. I have and can offer far more scriptural evidence for Michael than anyone can for the HS and church. I am claiming that the claim of many that it has to be the Holy Spirit is not supported by scripture in any way.

The bottom line of this argument is pretribbers need it to be so to support a unsupportable doctrine.