The "age of accountability" and the "rapture" hypothetical

[fastfredy0]

Background aside: My son have a 4,6 and 7 year old. He questions whether the 4 year old has been regenerated. So, with the rapture in mind, he went to a very good non-Christian friend of his and asked him to check his home for anyone "left behind" as a safety precaution.

Hypothetical Question
This question assumes the concept of the "rapture" is true. Would those who had not reached the "age of accountability" (babies, retarded, maybe me) be raptured or "left behind".

Aside: I'm not trying to test doctrine. I'm just thought it might be a thought provoking, fun question. (anyone wishing to use this for the directorial thesis is welcome to do so.) giggle

 

[Eleanor]

Background aside: My son have a 4,6 and 7 year old. He questions whether the 4 year old has been regenerated. So, with the rapture in mind, he went to a very good non-Christian friend of his and asked him to check his home for anyone "left behind" as a safety precaution.

Hypothetical Question
This question assumes the concept of the "rapture" is true.

The catching up (harpazo) of the saints to meet the Lord in the air at the second coming (1 Th 4:16-17) occurs at the resurrection.

Would those who had not reached the "age of accountability" (babies, retarded, maybe me) be raptured or "left behind".

Depends on whether they are elect before the foundations of the world or not.

Aside: I'm not trying to test doctrine. I'm just thought it might be a thought provoking, fun question. (anyone wishing to use this for the directorial thesis is welcome to do so.) giggle

 

[Hazelelponi]

As an amillennialist, I don’t hold to a pre-tribulation rapture, seeing 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17’s “catching up” as Christ’s second coming, not a separate event. Still, let’s explore the hypothetical.

Scripture teaches that children of believing parents are sanctified, set apart for God’s covenant. 1 Corinthians 7:14 declares, “The unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife…Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.” This covenantal sanctification doesn’t guarantee salvation—each must confess faith (Romans 10:9)—but places children under God’s promise (Acts 2:39, “For you and your children”).

If we assume a rapture, children under the “age of accountability” are sanctified by their elect parents’ faith (Genesis 17:7, “You and your offspring”). Thus, they’d be included with believing parents, not left behind, as God’s covenant extends to households (Acts 16:31).

I'm going by what I see Scripture to be teaching, I could be wrong on this but of course the hypothetical starts with positions I don't believe in in the first place so any explanation falls short.

Was there a normal response?

 

[fastfredy0]

Was there a normal response?

One can't have a "normal response" for an "abnormal" question.

 

[Hazelelponi]

One can't have a "normal response" for an "abnormal" question.

Well, might be good to know how to calm irrational fears.

 

[prism]

1 Thessalonians 3:13 KJV
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Jude 1:14 KJV
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zechariah 14:5 KJV
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I'm not sure how the Lord comes with His saints if there is not first a rapture?
...unless the rapture is hypothetical

 

[makesends]

1 Thessalonians 3:13 KJV
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Jude 1:14 KJV
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zechariah 14:5 KJV
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I'm not sure how the Lord comes with His saints if there is not first a rapture?
...unless the rapture is hypothetical

I don't get how that is a problem to you. How many of God's elect have died already?

 

[prism]

I don't get how that is a problem to you. How many of God's elect have died already?

I don't see it as a problem. How many have died? Myriads have died (fallen asleep)...

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 NKJV
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. [16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[CrowCross]

Depends on whether they are elect before the foundations of the world or not.

Interesting concept. Seems like a good possibility.

 

[Hazelelponi]

unless the rapture is hypothetical

I've been wondering about something like that these last couple days. Just how symbolic is that. we don't often consider it very symbolically do we?

Perhaps we should consider it more

 

[Eleanor]

1 Thessalonians 3:13 KJV
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Jude 1:14 KJV
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zechariah 14:5 KJV
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I'm not sure how the Lord comes with His saints if there is not first a rapture?
...unless the rapture is hypothetical

In 1 Th 4:16-17, I don't think Paul is presenting hypothesis in his teaching of the descent of Christ, nor in the resurrection nor in the catching up of the saints.

 

[prism]

In 1 Th 4:16-17, I don't think Paul is presenting hypothesis in his teaching of the descent of Christ, nor in the resurrection nor in the catching up of the saints.

I used the word hypothetical because the op used the phrase 'hypothetical question'

 

[EarlyActs]

1 Thessalonians 3:13 KJV
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Jude 1:14 KJV
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zechariah 14:5 KJV
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I'm not sure how the Lord comes with His saints if there is not first a rapture?
...unless the rapture is hypothetical

They are the ones already with Him…

 

[prism]

They are the ones already with Him…

How so?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 ESV
For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. [16] For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

 

[Josheb]

Hypothetical Question
This question assumes the concept of the "rapture" is true. Would those who had not reached the "age of accountability" (babies, retarded, maybe me) be raptured or "left behind".

John 3:18. Since no one is born believing in the name of Jesus, that's a potential problem for the age-of-accountability position. However, if your son's four-year-old believes in Jesus enough to have someone check on his home after any rapture then I submit he has more faith than many much older Christians and, since he's four, it's possibly not his little flesh that is driving that inquiry. It could be a fleshly fear of abandonment or a spiritual longing for his heavenly Father (or something else).

The honest, forthcoming answer is no one knows. what happens to the fetus, the newborn, the cognitively impaired, or the very young. Maybe, just maybe, God has seen fit, by grace, to make some unstated accommodation for those not sufficiently cognizant of the meanings of words (although I am not sure why that would hinder the almighty Holy Spirit of God) and simply not included it in His revelation but maybe not. The fact is the Bible is predominantly concerned with the faculties of adults. It is, therefore a bit of a red herring to even ask about young children.

Aside: I'm not trying to test doctrine. I'm just thought it might be a thought provoking, fun question. (anyone wishing to use this for the directorial thesis is welcome to do so.) giggle

This hypothetic is a greater problem for synergism because monergism does not require intellectual assent prior to regeneration. It teaches regeneration precedes faith (and any profession thereof). The saved were selected by God from the pool of universal sinners before any of them were born so many a four-year-old could be saved unawares to themselves or their parents. God has mercy on whom He has mercy and that does not depend on the willing or the running of the one who is shown mercy.


Someone should correct the four-year-old's eschatology, though, because a separated rapture is not a thing. Life has enough challenges for a four-year-old without the fear mongered by rapturism.

Just saying.







Btw, my son professed Christ at age 6 and appears to still be held fast at age 27.
.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Would those who had not reached the "age of accountability" (babies, retarded, maybe me) be raptured or "left behind".

The "age of accountability" is the moment of conception. "As IN ADAM all die..." Even one-celled human zygotes are capable of dying, which ranks them as being "IN ADAM". Humanity needs a Savior from the moment of conception forward. And we know that God has described individuals in Scripture that were converted from the womb (John the Baptist, Jeremiah, for example). The Holy Spirit is not limited as to when mankind is sanctified, even in utero.

As for the 1 Thess. 4 "rapture" passage, this has been mistakenly assumed to include living believers who have never died being caught up. That breaks the rule as given in 1 Cor. 15:22 - "...For as IN ADAM ALL DIE..." as well as in Hebrews 9:27: "...It is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, and after that the judgment." Nobody gets off this planet without passing through the physical death process. There is also NO Scripture promise of a sort of "translation-type change" of their bodies either, that would somehow skip this physical death process which ALL are destined to pass through if they are "IN ADAM".

People have twisted the 1 Cor. 15:51 verse to assume that not everybody dies.
Likewise, people have also twisted the 1 Thess. 4 "alive" saints who had "remained" as being those who would not experience the decreed physical death process.

These 1 Thess. 4 saints were "alive" because they had been MADE "alive" in a bodily-resurrection process prior to that "rapture" to heaven with Christ. Paul was speaking of those in the early church who had already experienced this bodily-resurrection to a glorified body, such as Lazarus, the widow's son, Jairus' daughter, the Matt. 27:52-53 saints, Dorcas, Eutychus, etc. All of these resurrected saints "remained" on the earth in those days of the early church, waiting for the imminent return of Christ, which Paul said was "about to be" in that generation.

 

[3 Resurrections]

monergism does not require intellectual assent prior to regeneration. It teaches regeneration precedes faith (and any profession thereof). The saved were selected by God from the pool of universal sinners before any of them were born so many a four-year-old could be saved unawares to themselves or their parents. God has mercy on whom He has mercy and that does not depend on the willing or the running of the one who is shown mercy.

YES. Salvation is not credited to the will of man, the flesh, or of blood genealogical descent. My four unborn grandchildren who never saw the light of day are in the merciful care of their Creator. If they were regenerate by God's mercy, I will see them one day. If they were not, I trust the Judge of all the earth to do right.

 

[Josheb]

The "age of accountability" is the moment of conception. "As IN ADAM all die..."

LOL! I think that's correct. Put on your seatbelt, though, because there may be some dissent.

 

[Josheb]

Hmmm...

The "age of accountability" is the moment of conception.

My four unborn grandchildren who never saw the light of day are in the merciful care of their Creator.

How do you know that? How do you reconcile the fact they are (supposedly) accountable at conception having never seen the light of day? God is merciful, but God is not only merciful. He is many things, including just and wrathful.

If they were not, I trust the Judge of all the earth to do right.

That is the crux of the issue because the "right" thing is for God to mete out the just recompense for sin, understanding condemnation is predicated on a lack, a lack of belief in Jesus. Perhaps what you mean or desire is for God to do the gracious thing. Grace is not right. Grace is extra-right .

 

[3 Resurrections]

How do you know that? How do you reconcile the fact they are (supposedly) accountable at conception having never seen the light of day? God is merciful, but God is not only merciful. He is many things, including just and wrathful.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. What I meant by saying that the souls of my 4 grandchildren that never saw daylight are "in the merciful care of their Creator" is that is that we are told that "the spirit returns to God who gave it" at the point of physical death. At that point, God has already determined the destination of that soul - whether as yet unborn or a centenarian. The souls of my unborn grandchildren at that point of their death returned to God who originally gave that soul at conception. IF their soul was reserved for perishing in a future judgment - God help me - I am reconciled to that wise decision by their Maker. But IF their soul is reserved in heaven with Christ - I will rejoice to encounter them there for the first time at my death.