The Rapture

[Carbon]

The Rapture.

For those of you who may not know, the Rapture conveys the idea of the transporting of believers from earth to heaven at Christ's second coming. As far as dispensationalists are concerned they believe the Rapture refers to Christ's secret coming when all the believers are suddenly removed from the earth before the great tribulation.

Those who believe this secret coming believe that the event takes place 7 years before Christ returns to earth. These hold to a premillennial, pre-trib view of the rapture. This is also what dispensationalists believe. I am not an expert on this so if there are some dispy's who disagree please bring it up for correction or debate.

I am not a premillennial, pretrib or dispensationalist. I am an Amillennialist.
I believe Jesus returns at the end of the church age, or the time of the great apostasy which happens immediately before the return of Christ. Which marks the end of the millennial age on the earth.

I dont disagree with a rapture, just the time in which it takes place.

Here is where I believe the Rapture takes place. Christ's second coming.

and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24.



“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

 

[Marilyn C]

The Rapture.

For those of you who may not know, the Rapture conveys the idea of the transporting of believers from earth to heaven at Christ's second coming. As far as dispensationalists are concerned they believe the Rapture refers to Christ's secret coming when all the believers are suddenly removed from the earth before the great tribulation.

Those who believe this secret coming believe that the event takes place 7 years before Christ returns to earth. These hold to a premillennial, pre-trib view of the rapture. This is also what dispensationalists believe. I am not an expert on this so if there are some dispy's who disagree please bring it up for correction or debate.

I am not a premillennial, pretrib or dispensationalist. I am an Amillennialist.
I believe Jesus returns at the end of the church age, or the time of the great apostasy which happens immediately before the return of Christ. Which marks the end of the millennial age on the earth.

I dont disagree with a rapture, just the time in which it takes place.

Here is where I believe the Rapture takes place. Christ's second coming.

and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24.



“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

As the Body of Christ and its purpose was not revealed until the Lord ascended and revealed it to the apostle Paul, then Matt. 24 does NOT refer to the B/C.

As to not knowing , the Lord has told His Body - `You are NOT in darkness that this day should overtake you as a thief. ` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

`but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

 

[armylngst]

The Rapture.

For those of you who may not know, the Rapture conveys the idea of the transporting of believers from earth to heaven at Christ's second coming. As far as dispensationalists are concerned they believe the Rapture refers to Christ's secret coming when all the believers are suddenly removed from the earth before the great tribulation.

Those who believe this secret coming believe that the event takes place 7 years before Christ returns to earth. These hold to a premillennial, pre-trib view of the rapture. This is also what dispensationalists believe. I am not an expert on this so if there are some dispy's who disagree please bring it up for correction or debate.

I am not a premillennial, pretrib or dispensationalist. I am an Amillennialist.
I believe Jesus returns at the end of the church age, or the time of the great apostasy which happens immediately before the return of Christ. Which marks the end of the millennial age on the earth.

I dont disagree with a rapture, just the time in which it takes place.

Here is where I believe the Rapture takes place. Christ's second coming.

and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24.



“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

If you try to consider it with the plagues in Egypt, where Goshen was separated from Egypt, then the separation between the church and the world would happen about half-way through the tribulation, or pre-wrath, which is another belief. So God does not pour out His wrath on the church, but only on the kingdom of the beast and his image. Pre-trib says that the church bypasses persecution, however that is not necessarily spelled out in scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

marilyn c

As the Body of Christ and its purpose was not revealed until the Lord ascended and revealed it to the apostle Paul, then Matt. 24 does NOT refer to the B/C.

The Body of Christ existed, but it was a Mystery to who it is, the Spiritual Seed of Abraham that belonged to Christ comprised of both jews and gentiles Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

See Abraham belonged to the Body of Christ.

 

[Wordsmith]

I believe the return of Christ and the gathering of the Saints is immediately after the tribulation as stated in Matthew 24:29-31

I also subscribe to a literal 1000 years rein upon the earth.

I lean toward a literal interpretation of scripture except in cases where the text gives reason for symbolism.

 

[Marty]

The Rapture.

For those of you who may not know, the Rapture conveys the idea of the transporting of believers from earth to heaven at Christ's second coming. As far as dispensationalists are concerned they believe the Rapture refers to Christ's secret coming when all the believers are suddenly removed from the earth before the great tribulation.

Those who believe this secret coming believe that the event takes place 7 years before Christ returns to earth. These hold to a premillennial, pre-trib view of the rapture. This is also what dispensationalists believe. I am not an expert on this so if there are some dispy's who disagree please bring it up for correction or debate.

I am not a premillennial, pretrib or dispensationalist. I am an Amillennialist.
I believe Jesus returns at the end of the church age, or the time of the great apostasy which happens immediately before the return of Christ. Which marks the end of the millennial age on the earth.

I dont disagree with a rapture, just the time in which it takes place.

Here is where I believe the Rapture takes place. Christ's second coming.

and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24.



“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43 But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 For this reason you must be ready as well; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

You are correct the rapture is at the end of our world but your verses from Matthew isn't the rapture. Those verses are about being taken in judgement the verse your provided even shows it. It starts with "the flood came and took them away" those ones were taken by the flood they died in the flood thus they were taken in judgment.

It is the same with the ones taken away in the following verses one was "taken and the other left" they were taken in judgement. In Noah's day it was better to be left than taken. Luke also confirms it.

Luke 17
30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e]
37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.
He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

​

 

[Carbon]

You are correct the rapture is at the end of our world but your verses from Matthew isn't the rapture. Those verses are about being taken in judgement the verse your provided even shows it. It starts with "the flood came and took them away" those ones were taken by the flood they died in the flood thus they were taken in judgment.

It is the same with the ones taken away in the following verses one was "taken and the other left" they were taken in judgement. In Noah's day it was better to be left than taken. Luke also confirms it.

I disagree but thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. This is one area where we have to agree to disagree.

 

[Carbon]

Those in Matthew who are taken away are the wicked. They ask Jesus where they are taken, "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." Matthew 24:28. That's not the rapture.

Yea maybe? I’m at work, out of focus. But will look into it more later.

 

[Carbon]

Those in Matthew who are taken away are the wicked. They ask Jesus where they are taken, "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." Matthew 24:28. That's not the rapture.

Actually, after looking, I believe you are wrong. I believe the verse you presented, Matthew 24:28 may be about AD 70, which would be in that context. See Matthew 24:15-28.

Then we step ahead after the tribulation of those days. Matthew 24:29-31. Christ's return

Now consider this,
Matthew 24:31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Here is the gathering, hence, the Rapture. You are allowed to be wrong once in a while bro.

Matthew 24:36
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

That in my understanding is Christ's second coming and judgment day.

 

[Carbon]

No way, really?

Yep, really.

OK, but you offer no proof.

Plenty of proof.

Don't be too sure.

No, really, it's okay.

So those taken away in the verses you previously offered are raptured, and are like carcasses the eagles feast on afterward?

You're mixing up the destruction of the temple and the tribulation with the Second Coming. Have you read Josephus? He gives a good descripture of what took place during the destruction of the temple. It is at times pretty graphic.

The gathering of the elect is to turn them into carcasses?

Oh, don't be silly.

That doesn't sound much like a heavenly reunion!

No, it sure doesn't.

Perhaps you're wrong here? Aren't the angels here possibly His ministers, preachers of the Gospel, winning souls to Christ across the globe?

Your vultures (Eagles) are during the tribulation vs:28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.


Not during the Second Coming. Something you might seriously consider bro.

 

[Carbon]

Matthew 24:28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
KJV: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Daniel 9: 27 And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate.”

Christ will come and confirm a covenant with many (that is the ushering in of the new covenant), he puts a stop to sacrifices because he fulfilled the types and shadows in the OT, and he is the Lamb of God given for us. this is during a part of the 70 weeks.
Then after this week ends at the end of the 70 weeks; in AD 70, the Romans will attack and desolate the temple. And because of the destruction of the temple, the Jewish services and sacrifices shall be abolished. Sacrifices after Christ are an abomination. and........
On the wing of abominations, comes one who makes desolate. (The Roman legions) Did you know the Roman legion's ensigns were eagles? They worshiped them as godheads of armies and they placed them in the temple to profane it.

When ye, therefore, shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Matt 24:15.

For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land. Isaiah 10:23.

 

[Carbon]

OK, I just looked over the text and at Matthew 24:28.

Listening to Matt Slick he stated that those who were taken were taken in judgment, and that this verse proves it. However, the taking doesn't happen until after this text. He has mentioned this several times on his Matt Slick Live program, but the text doesn't follow his teachings. So given that, I admit I am wrong, and I admit I should have read the text to verify it. I wonder if Slick has read it himself?

Darn it bro. You are human like me. A bit smarter than I but, you are human also.

 

[Carbon]

I gotta call Matt Slick on this one. Perhaps @ReverendRV can talk to him about this on Clubhouse. He needs to quit teaching this, unless there is something I am missing.

Na, I don't think your missing anything. Eschatology is IMO a very difficult study to narrow down. Matt probably spends a lot of his time on other subjects.

 

[Deleted member 5]

I gotta call Matt Slick on this one. Perhaps @ReverendRV can talk to him about this on Clubhouse. He needs to quit teaching this, unless there is something I am missing.

For the record my apologies here. Matt was referencing the text of Luke. It appears there are those taken away in judgment, akin to what happened in the days of Noah.

 

[Marilyn C]

marilyn c



The Body of Christ existed, but it was a Mystery to who it is, the Spiritual Seed of Abraham that belonged to Christ comprised of both jews and gentiles Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

See Abraham belonged to the Body of Christ.

Not really. Abraham looked for a city, while the Body of Christ will be on Christ`s throne in the third heaven. (Rev.3: 21) Note, the city comes down out of heaven from God. (Rev. 21: 2)

Two different inheritances.

 

[Marilyn C]

I believe the return of Christ and the gathering of the Saints is immediately after the tribulation as stated in Matthew 24:29-31

I also subscribe to a literal 1000 years rein upon the earth.

I lean toward a literal interpretation of scripture except in cases where the text gives reason for symbolism.

Matt. 24: 29 - 31 is BEFORE the revelation of the Body of Christ and its purpose. (Eph. 3: 1 - 6)

 

[Marilyn C]

You are correct the rapture is at the end of our world but your verses from Matthew isn't the rapture. Those verses are about being taken in judgement the verse your provided even shows it. It starts with "the flood came and took them away" those ones were taken by the flood they died in the flood thus they were taken in judgment.

It is the same with the ones taken away in the following verses one was "taken and the other left" they were taken in judgement. In Noah's day it was better to be left than taken. Luke also confirms it.

Luke 17
30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e]
37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.
He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

​

I agree about those taken away as in the flood, for judgment. However, the Body of Christ will be `caught up` to the Lord and then taken to His throne where they will judge the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) Thus, before the tribulation.

 

[Marilyn C]

Actually, after looking, I believe you are wrong. I believe the verse you presented, Matthew 24:28 may be about AD 70, which would be in that context. See Matthew 24:15-28.

Then we step ahead after the tribulation of those days. Matthew 24:29-31. Christ's return

Now consider this,
Matthew 24:31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Here is the gathering, hence, the Rapture. You are allowed to be wrong once in a while bro.

Matthew 24:36
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

That in my understanding is Christ's second coming and judgment day.

Israel is also God`s elect. `For Jacob my servant`s sake and Israel my elect.` (Isa. 45: 4)

Matt. 24: 31 & 36 are all BEFORE the revelation of the Body of Christ and God`s purpose for that. (Eph. 3: 1 - 6)

 

[Carbon]

Israel is also God`s elect. `For Jacob my servant`s sake and Israel my elect.` (Isa. 45: 4)

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. Hosea 11:1. This is a messianic prophecy. And believers are spiritual Israel. Or, you can say headship theology, Christ is the Head, believers the body.

Matt. 24: 31 & 36 are all BEFORE the revelation of the Body of Christ and God`s purpose for that. (Eph. 3: 1 - 6)

 

[Marilyn C]

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. Hosea 11:1. This is a messianic prophecy. And believers are spiritual Israel. Or, you can say headship theology, Christ is the Head, believers the body.

However, God has not cast away His people Israel. (Rom. 11: 1)

He created them for a purpose and He created the Body of Christ for a different purpose.