The Rapture

[Marilyn C]

I sure did, and that post had a different context than the ones you are mixing here.

Your post is non sequitur.

So, the context of the 1,000 years does not have `as if, ` or `like` but specifics that only occur in a specific time period.

 

[Deleted member 5]

So, the context of the 1,000 years does not have `as if, ` or `like` but specifics that only occur in a specific time period.

So does its usage in God "owns the cattle on a thousand hills."

So let's apply your hermeneutic consistently: God only owns the cattle on a literal thousand hills. All the other cattle on all the other hills are not His.

 

[Selah7]

Me? I’m a post-tribber who believes that the next time Christ Jesus returns, it will certainly be as Lord of lords and King of kings to rule and reign for 1,000 years (the millennium).

1 Thes. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We need to understand what subject is being discussed here. Is it the return of Christ? No. Actually, we need to go back and read verse 13 to find the subject.

1 Thes. 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (in death), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

So the subject here is “where are those who have died”—Paul doesn't want us to be ignorant about where the dead are. because the Sadducees were misinforming everyone, claiming that there is no such thing as a resurrection or life after death.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, then we must also believe that our loved ones who have died knowing Jesus, rose also (changed, of course, into their spiritual bodies) to be with Him. In other words, when Jesus returns at the second advent (Coming), He will bring these dead in Christ folks with Him.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

That's the purpose of Paul explaining this... "I don't want you to be ignorant concerning where the dead are."

So the "dead in Christ,” those who have died believing in the Lord, who are with Him now (Ecclesiastes 12:7), will rise first when Christ returns at His Second Coming. There’s no rapture before this time.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Greek word translated "air" is aer, which by one definition can refer to our spiritual body, our "breath" of life body. We gather back to Christ, alongside our brethren who have already passed away and are already in their spiritual bodies. Now we are going to gather with them and Christ in a group, we also being in our new spiritual bodies that were changed in a twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52): In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

And, by the way, the phrase “in the clouds” means “in a group.” When Jesus returns, we are going to gather together in a large group with the saints that are coming with Him. Paul uses the same colloquial expression in Hebrews 12:1 when he speaks about a great cloud of witnesses, in other words, a large group of witnesses.

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1)

I believe Christ is returning to the Mount of Olives here on earth, and this is where we gather to Him, not up in the sky in the clouds.

 

[Wordsmith]

It is not a secret. People just refuse to believe it. It is in plain sight, right underneath your nose.

No a pre-trib rapture is not taught in scripture anywhere. I have read the books studied the pre-trib rapture, heard all of the arguments, I use to believe it but it is not scriptural. If you have some new insight to share I am listening , but just a declaration such as your post proves nothing. I will back my beliefs with scripture.

2 Thessalonians

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,​

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[Selah7]

No a pre-trib rapture is not taught in scripture anywhere. I have read the books studied the pre-trib rapture, heard all of the arguments, I use to believe it but it is not scriptural. If you have some new insight to share I am listening , but just a declaration such as your post proves nothing. I will back my beliefs with scripture.

2 Thessalonians​

​

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,​

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

In total agreement. And “that day” is the Day of the Lord, and it comes at the 7th trump after the 6th trump when “that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”

 

[Deleted member 6]

So does its usage in God "owns the cattle on a thousand hills."

So let's apply your hermeneutic consistently: God only owns the cattle on a literal thousand hills. All the other cattle on all the other hills are not His.

He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,[Psalm 105:8]

Now, a biblical generation is around 40 years, iirc. If that’s a literal generation, then the world will exist for at least 40,000 years.

 

[Deleted member 5]

He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,[Psalm 105:8]

Now, a biblical generation is around 40 years, iirc. If that’s a literal generation, then the world will exist for at least 40,000 years.

Yes, the world will end in the year 40,000. We're almost there.

 

[Marilyn C]

So does its usage in God "owns the cattle on a thousand hills."

So let's apply your hermeneutic consistently: God only owns the cattle on a literal thousand hills. All the other cattle on all the other hills are not His.

Remember we read scripture in context and within the context of the whole of God`s word.

`The earth is the Lord`s and ALL ITS FULLNESS, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24: 1)

 

[Marilyn C]

He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,[Psalm 105:8]

Now, a biblical generation is around 40 years, iirc. If that’s a literal generation, then the world will exist for at least 40,000 years.

You seem to forget the first 1,700 years when there was only 9 generations from Adam to Noah.

 

[Deleted member 6]

You seem to forget the first 1,700 years when there was only 9 generations from Adam to Noah.

But none live today close to the age they did. So, still, my point stands. If 1,000 years is literal, then so are the 1,000 hills those cattle are on He owns, and the 1,000 generations of Psalm 105:8.

 

[Deleted member 6]

Remember we read scripture in context and within the context of the whole of God`s word.

`The earth is the Lord`s and ALL ITS FULLNESS, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24: 1)

So, those 1,000 hills aren’t literal but the 1,000 years are?

 

[Deleted member 5]

Remember we read scripture in context and within the context of the whole of God`s word.

`The earth is the Lord`s and ALL ITS FULLNESS, the world and those who dwell therein.` (Ps. 24: 1)

Another fail to address Scripture.

I've shown your hermeneutic is inconsistent, so you run to another text of Scripture? The text you've provided doesn't prove your case and is non sequitur.

Try addressing what I said instead of moving the goal posts?

 

[Deleted member 5]

So, those 1,000 hills aren’t literal but the 1,000 years are?

Yes, an inconsistent hermeneutic. They must change the rules of interpretation to force the text to say what they want with no rhyme nor reason other than forcing it to fit their system. The old switcheroo.

 

[Marilyn C]

Another fail to address Scripture.

I've shown your hermeneutic is inconsistent, so you run to another text of Scripture? The text you've provided doesn't prove your case and is non sequitur.

Try addressing what I said instead of moving the goal posts?

God`s word says that He owns everything, the world and its fullness. So, obviously the `cattle on a thousand hills,` is picturesque.

Just as when the Lord is described as the Lamb of God. Obviously we realise He is not a literal sheep.

 

[Deleted member 5]

God`s word says that He owns everything, the world and its fullness. So, obviously the `cattle on a thousand hills,` is picturesque.

You mean one thousand is figurative. You're avoiding it.

 

[Deleted member 6]

God`s word says that He owns everything, the world and its fullness. So, obviously the `cattle on a thousand hills,` is picturesque.

IOW, 1,000 shouldn’t be taken literal?

 

[Deleted member 6]

You mean one thousand is figurative. You're avoiding it.

Each 1,000 is up for grabs it seems.

 

[Marilyn C]

You mean one thousand is figurative. You're avoiding it.

Aways depending on ALL of God`s word. Rev. 20: 4 - 5, does not have `as a ` or `like a ` but specific detail concerning the 1,000 years.

 

[Marilyn C]

Each 1,000 is up for grabs it seems.

Seems you haven`t the whole Bible to confer with.

 

[Deleted member 6]

Seems you haven`t the whole Bible to confer with.

Yes I have. If 1,000 years in Revelation 20 are literal then so are the 1,000 hills and 1,000 generations. Premillennialism ((Dispensational and Historic) continually moves the goalposts.