The elephant named Trinity.~

[Arial]

"I am" is not a name and everyone but trinitarians know this. The verse in question does not make the claim that is Jesus' God's name. It is the next verse, where he actually uses the word "name" that contains his name, YHWH.

By any chance did you read my entire post before jumping the gun like that. This insulting and untrue statement bears no resemblance of a comment or rebuttal to what was given you for your edification.

If someone asks me what I do for a living and I say, "I'm in between jobs right now." And then say, "I'm a career politician," only a trinitarian would stick to his first answer as what he does for a living is "I'm in between jobs right now."

A diversionary tactic and a lying insult to Trinitarians. I don't think there is a person in the world who would do what you say. But quite the red herring.

This is Language Usage. This is how people communicate. Jesus' God was telling Moses his definining characteristic. In Hebrew, the word best translates to Eternal. (Bad translations simplify it to "I am" and you know it means more than "I am" but your IDOLATRY requires you to play these word games).

You need to get off that term "language usage" as your single rebuttal technique. You misuse it in language and have pretty much removed all meaning from it. Of course people communicate through language. Is that another one of your profound epiphanies?

To say something is the result of a bad translation one must also show what is bad about it, where it is, and what is the correct translation. And if one says I AM THAT I AM is best translated eternal when the Hebrew uses exactly what I said it did, and means in Hebrew, exactly what I said it did---I will be who I will be----then prove it is not just your translation. The I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE is connected within the context to who He was to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which was a covenant relationship---where He uses the same name that He gives Moses, Yahweh or in English, LORD. And I told you why in my post but I guess that is not what you want to talk about. You simply want to say Trinitarians are idolaters and ignore all evidence to the contrary.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

You simply want to say Trinitarians are idolaters and ignore all evidence to the contrary.

No sir. The shoe fits perfectly.

There is only one God the Father. Trinitarianism does not deny that.

LOL. Because Trinitarians tend to jettison the Mutual Exclusivity Principle of Logic in favor of dualism.

In trinity land, there is only one dog in Peanuts comic strips - Lassie, Toto and Snoopy. Tell me I'm wrong and you are a trintiarian who confesses Jesus is not God and the Holy Spirit is not God either but only the Father is God. (If you so confess, I wonder why you call yourself a trinitarian?)

For people who are logical, when you say Bob is in the basement, this is taken to be Mutual Exclusive; meaning he is not upstairs or in the attic. Trinitarians say things like Bob is in the basement but is also upstairs AND in the attic.

There is one God, the Father, you say but mean there are 3 gods in this one, 2 of which are not the Father.

 

[grace2]

No sir. The shoe fits perfectly.





There is one God, the Father, you say but mean there are 3 gods in this one, 2 of which are not the Father.

they deny and don't accept simple Truth.

they change the definition of "One God".

that's the only way they can fight against the simple Truth.

 

[Eleanor]

Yea, you are assuming your doctrine is right even though everything goes against it. So funny!

Notice Paul does not teach the trinity.

What I "notice" is your eyes that cannot see (1 Co 2:14) the abundance of the evidence from both Paul and Jesus:

1) In the work of salvation, the NT shows three distinct divine agents, Father, Son and Holy Spirit (redemption is a function of divinity).

a) Father, Son and Holy Spirit at its beginning (Lk 1:35), at the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Mt 3:16-17), and in the work of. atonement (Heb 9:14).
b) The Holy Spirit completing the salvation work of the Father through the Son -- Ac 2:38-39, Ro 8 (v.26), 1 Co 12:4-13 (vv. 4-6), Eph 1:3-14 (v.14), 2:13-22 (v.18), 2 Th 2:13, 1 Pe 1:2.
c) The way to enter the kingdom of the Father is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit -- Jn 3:1-15 (vv. 5, 14-15).

2) In the triune name of God, where Father, Son and Holy Spirit are bracketed together:

a) Jesus said this was the name (singular--not names, plural) of the God with whom we have to do and enter into relationship (Mt 28:19).
b) All three are used interchangeably (1 Co 12:4-6).
c) All three are linked in prayer for divine blessing (2 Co 13:14).
d) All three are linked in pronouncement of divine blessing (Rev 1:4-5).

3) In the co-equal relationship pointed to by the close connection in the NT between Father and Son, Father and Spirit, and Son and Spirit:

a) See Ac 16:7, Ro 1:7, 8:9, 27, 1Co 1:3, 2Co 1:2, Gal 1:3, 4:6, Eph 1:2, Php 1:2, 19, 1Th 1:1, 3:11, 2Th 1:2, 8, 12, 2:16, 3:5, 1Pe 1:2.
b) "The Lord Jesus is the Spirit" (2Co 3:17), "the Lord who is the Spirit" (2Co 3:18). The Spirit is one with Jesus in the unity of the Godhead.
Not only does Jesus work in men through the Spirit, but the Son and Spirit are co-equal divine beings (Christ the Lord worked through Paul, but Paul would never have said, "The Lord is Paul," to express the thought that Christ worked through Paul). Not only does Christ work through the Spirit, but Christ and the Spirit are co-equal. Paul is stating the Spirit's place in the Godhead.
c) It is the Father who will send the Spirit (Jn 14:36) as it was the Father who sent the Son (Jn 5:23, 36).
It is also the Son who will send the Spirit "from the Father" (Jn 15:26).
As the Father sent the Son into the world, so the Son will send the Spirit into the world (Jn 16:7).
So the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father.

It is Jesus who shows here (c) three distinct divine persons in disclosing the mystery (never before revealed) of the Trinity, which mystery is the heart of the Christian faith in God.
And that mystery is three distinct divine persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in the work of the one God of salvation.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

It is Jesus who shows here (c) three distinct divine persons in disclosing the mystery (never before revealed) of the Trinity, which mystery is the heart of the Christian faith in God.

There is no mystery and there are billions of divine beings, at least, not 3. More play on definitions. By divine, you mean to say deity and this goes against the one God of Scripture.

In trinity land, one God the Father means others Gods who are not the Father also. Talking to a trinitarian is like participating in an Abbot and Costello skit. Who’s on First? The one God, the Father. Who’s on Second? ….

 

[Arial]

@grace2 @Soldier of Christ1516
[IMG alt="Carbon"]https://christcentered.community.forum/data/avatars/m/0/1.jpg?1688878114[/IMG]
A message from Carbon posted in The Trinity.

Carbon​

Courage, dear heart.​

• Today at 8:48 AM
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• #413

Please keep in mind since you are not an orthodox Christian (the Trinity being central to the orthodox faith), and you are in the Trinity forum, you are allowed to ask questions, disagree and even deny but you are not allowed to attack the doctrine and conduct yourself as if you are teaching truth and correcting others. If you would like to discuss your beliefs, take it to the correct areas where you are free to. This goes for all those who deny the Trinity.

Thank you

 

[Rella]

Yup. Humor us. Show us your intelligent and able to establish a rejection criteria.

If you recall, I established an acceptance criteria, what a trinity statement would look like. (I’ve posted it MANY times.)

There is a mountain of evidence that Jesus is NOT God. 1 COR 8:6, ‘For us, there is one God, the Father’ is as strong a repudiation of the trinity as one can imagine. Since you deny this, I challenge you to write a stronger one. What would an anti-trinitarian verse look like that is stronger?

Ill pass TYVM

 

[Rella]

No sir. The shoe fits perfectly.





There is one God, the Father, you say but mean there are 3 gods in this one, 2 of which are not the Father.

There is not one Trinitarian that ever said that.

And that has been explained ad nauseum.

 

[grace2]

@grace2 @Soldier of Christ1516
[IMG alt="Carbon"]https://christcentered.community.forum/data/avatars/m/0/1.jpg?1688878114[/IMG]

Carbon​

Courage, dear heart.​

• Today at 8:48 AM
• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #413

Please keep in mind since you are not an orthodox Christian (the Trinity being central to the orthodox faith), and you are in the Trinity forum, you are allowed to ask questions, disagree and even deny but you are not allowed to attack the doctrine and conduct yourself as if you are teaching truth and correcting others. If you would like to discuss your beliefs, take it to the correct areas where you are free to. This goes for all those who deny the Trinity.

Thank you

Is it at

@grace2 @Soldier of Christ1516
[IMG alt="Carbon"]https://christcentered.community.forum/data/avatars/m/0/1.jpg?1688878114[/IMG]

Carbon​

Courage, dear heart.​

• Today at 8:48 AM
• 
  
• Add bookmark
• #413

Please keep in mind since you are not an orthodox Christian (the Trinity being central to the orthodox faith), and you are in the Trinity forum, you are allowed to ask questions, disagree and even deny but you are not allowed to attack the doctrine and conduct yourself as if you are teaching truth and correcting others. If you would like to discuss your beliefs, take it to the correct areas where you are free to. This goes for all those who deny the Trinity.

Thank you

Are we allowed to correct trin churches' heresy at the Unitarian board?

 

[Arial]

There is one God, the Father, you say but mean there are 3 gods in this one, 2 of which are not the Father.

That is not what the doctrine of the Trinity says. How many times must you be told that? You can give as many fallacious examples as you want. They are all straw men.

LOL. Because Trinitarians tend to jettison the Mutual Exclusivity Principle of Logic in favor of dualism.

You misuse Mutual Exclusivity Principles of Logic when you concoct imaginary scenarios. The Trinity is not dealing with different essences but one essence with three distinct persons.The dualism of Christ is found in logic. He is the product of His father and His mother. Just as everything contains the nature of both parents, so too does the preeminent and unique One, Jesus. Father---God. Mother---human. The divine and human can never mix so in the one person are two natures. That is what the Bible says, what God says, what logic says and to deny it is to call God a liar.

 

[Arial]

Is it at

Are we allowed to correct trin churches' heresy at the Unitarian board?

You are allowed to present your heresy in the Unitarian board. Responses to whatever the Trinitarains in the thread may say, will be presented with support and evidence from their perspective. Responses to it by Unitarians must be met likewise with support and evidence, not just calling people liars, and heretics, Jesus haters, false God worshipers etc.

 

[Rella]

@Soldier of Christ1516

The Holy Spirit serves what purpose?

And do not deflect by saying we have talked a lot on that.... WE HAVE NOT

 

[grace2]

You are allowed to present your heresy in the Unitarian board. Responses to whatever the Trinitarains in the thread may say, will be presented with support and evidence from their perspective. Responses to it by Unitarians must be met likewise with support and evidence, not just calling people liars, and heretics, Jesus haters, false God worshipers etc.

So you are not letting us to present Jesus' simple teachings?

or are you going to come there and correct and mock all we have to say and start the debate?

 

[Arial]

So you are not letting us to present Jesus' simple teachings?

If you can, do so. In the Unitarian board.

or are you going to come there and correct and mock all we have to say and start the debate?

We are likely to give our own view but as all the Trinitarians have been doing in all the other Trinity threads, it will be done with support and evidence from our pov. It is not us who do the correcting and mocking, it is you and @Runningman and @Soldier of Christ1516 who do that to us. None of you ever give evidence or support or exegesis, or exposition, or even actually discuss what has been said to you. None answer questions. We get mocking, insulting, and proof texting. And I know why. If any had anything better, than straw man fallacies, red herrings, false dichotomies, diversions, evasions----if they had actual biblical support that could stand up to the scrutiny of hermeneutics, exposition. exegesis of the full counsel of God and the surrounding context of the proof texts used---you all would give that.

But you don't because it doesn't exist.

 

[Arial]

@Soldier of Christ1516

The Holy Spirit serves what purpose?

And do not deflect by saying we have talked a lot on that.... WE HAVE NOT

Unitarians don't answer questions.

 

[grace2]

If you can, do so. In the Unitarian board.

We are likely to give our own view but as all the Trinitarians have been doing in all the other Trinity threads, it will be done with support and evidence from our pov. It is not us who do the correcting and mocking, it is you and @Runningman and @Soldier of Christ1516 who do that to us. None of you ever give evidence or support or exegesis, or exposition, or even actually discuss what has been said to you. None answer questions. We get mocking, insulting, and proof texting. And I know why. If any had anything better, than straw man fallacies, red herrings, false dichotomies, diversions, evasions----if they had actual biblical support that could stand up to the scrutiny of hermeneutics, exposition. exegesis of the full counsel of God and the surrounding context of the proof texts used---you all would give that.

But you don't because it doesn't exist.

One time, you edited my title.

Is that kind of behavior allowed?

 

[grace2]

Unitarians don't answer questions.

You see this is what I mean when we don't take your bait of starting bickering and arguments.

 

[Carbon]

So you are not letting us to present Jesus' simple teachings?

or are you going to come there and correct and mock all we have to say and start the debate?

Won’t you give us Christian’s a break? Don’t assume

 

[grace2]

Won’t you give us Christian’s a break? Don’t assume

I don't assume.

I just stating the fact of what is going on.

when you mock and ridicule, it is ok but if we do it is not ok.

God is not God of unjust.

And we are most certainly Christians, we follow what Jesus teaches.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

Ill pass TYVM

Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!

This just goes to show the difference in how each side approaches the topic.

Unitarians: If the trinity was in the Bible, a verse l like X, I’d believe it.

Trinitarians: I refuse to establish a rejection criteria (on the principle of IDOL worship.)