Who Brought Jesus Back from the Dead?

[TrevorL]

Greetings again prism,

I never said there was, what I said was "The letter to the Hebrews often quotes this passage referring to the necessity of the Incarnation and Christ's role as a high priest"... (incarnation) (incarnation) (High Priest) (High Priest)

Psalm 110:1,4 do NOT necessitate the Incarnation, and neither do the various verses that you quote from Hebrews. They speak of the fact that Jesus as a human and the Son of God was exalted by God to the position of High Priest.

Would you mind explaining that difference between the Son of God and God the Son?

Perhaps you should explain the difference, and I suspect that there are many different views among Trinitarians as to the meaning of these terms. I will try to approximate the Trinitarian position on God the Son, and allow you to correct me if you differ. I assume that Trinitarians believe that there were three Beings in heaven before the Creation, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and the relationship between God the Father and God the Son was not an indication of the normal father/son relationship, where the father gives birth to the son. They both existed from eternity, and if there is a begettal then this begettal was somehow in eternity, and this is the explanation of John 1:14 that Jesus was "the only begotten of the Father". The Incarnation is where somehow God the Son is infused into the womb of Mary, and as such Jesus has two natures, he is a God/man.

I have a difficulty in that if Jesus was God, why is it that Jesus claims that he speaks the Father's words, and that the miracles that he wrought were from God the Father?
John 14:9–10 (KJV): 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Acts 2:22 (KJV): Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

As to the term "the Son of God" I do not know what Trinitarians believe as there is no comparison to our normal understanding of this, that of a father who produces a son. My impression is that Trinitarians are forced to use this expression "the Son of God" because of its repeated occurrence in the NT, but they really reject what it is saying.

My belief is that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father, in God the Father's Throne. Jesus is The Son of God by birth, God the Father is His father and Mary his mother Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, and Jesus is The Son of God by character, He was full of grace and truth John 1:14, and He is now the Son of God by resurrection into immortality.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[prism]

Greetings again prism,

Psalm 110:1,4 do NOT necessitate the Incarnation, and neither do the various verses that you quote from Hebrews. They speak of the fact that Jesus as a human and the Son of God was exalted by God to the position of High Priest.

Perhaps you should explain the difference, and I suspect that there are many different views among Trinitarians as to the meaning of these terms. I will try to approximate the Trinitarian position on God the Son, and allow you to correct me if you differ. I assume that Trinitarians believe that there were three Beings in heaven before the Creation, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and the relationship between God the Father and God the Son was not an indication of the normal father/son relationship, where the father gives birth to the son. They both existed from eternity, and if there is a begettal then this begettal was somehow in eternity, and this is the explanation of John 1:14 that Jesus was "the only begotten of the Father". The Incarnation is where somehow God the Son is infused into the womb of Mary, and as such Jesus has two natures, he is a God/man.

I have a difficulty in that if Jesus was God, why is it that Jesus claims that he speaks the Father's words, and that the miracles that he wrought were from God the Father?
John 14:9–10 (KJV): 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Acts 2:22 (KJV): Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

As to the term "the Son of God" I do not know what Trinitarians believe as there is no comparison to our normal understanding of this, that of a father who produces a son. My impression is that Trinitarians are forced to use this expression "the Son of God" because of its repeated occurrence in the NT, but they really reject what it is saying.

My belief is that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father, in God the Father's Throne. Jesus is The Son of God by birth, God the Father is His father and Mary his mother Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, and Jesus is The Son of God by character, He was full of grace and truth John 1:14, and He is now the Son of God by resurrection into immortality.

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor,
I'm sorry but I will be leaving this thread as it seems we have gotten wayyy of the intent of this thread which is.....

Who Brought Jesus Back from the Dead?​

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again prism,

I'm sorry but I will be leaving this thread as it seems we have gotten wayyy of the intent of this thread

Fair enough and another reason is that we did not seem to be making any progress.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Mr GLee]

The Father is God,
The Son is God (Jn 1:1, 14, 18),
The Holy Spirit is God.

Call it what you want, there are three persons in the one God.

When it comes to spiritual unseen things Three is a crowd. Two is a company

The Holy Spirit is of the father (Christ the husband)

His eternal Spirit works in the Son of man Jesus who became born again as a son of God.

The dynamic duo

 

[prism]

Greetings again prism,

Fair enough and another reason is that we did not seem to be making any progress.

Kind regards
Trevor

Agreed.

 

[donadams]

Who Brought Jesus Back from the Dead?​

The Bible has much to say about the mode of Jesus resurrection. It testifies that the three members of the Trinity were involved in Jesus resurrection.

God the Father raised Jesus​

The Bible says that God the Father brought Jesus back from the dead:

​

"This Jesus God raised up, and we are all witnesses of it. So then, exalted to the right hand of God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you both see and hear" (Acts 2:32-33).​

​

Paul wrote:

​

"Therefore, we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life" (Rom 6:4).​

​

Paul wrote to the Galatians:

​

"From Paul, an apostle (not from men, nor by human agency, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead) ..." (Gal 1:1).​

​

By raising Jesus from the dead, God the Father reversed the death sentence that was pronounced on him and exalted him to the Lord of glory.

Jesus brought himself back from the dead​

Jesus also arose by his own power:

​

"So then the Jewish leaders responded, ‘What sign can you show us, since you are doing these things?’ Jesus replied, ‘Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again’" (John 2:18-19).​

​

Speaking of his life, Jesus declared:

​

"No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father" (John 10:18).​

​

The Holy Spirit raised Jesus​

The third person of the Trinity was also involved in the resurrection:

​

"Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you" (Rom 8:11).​

​

Peter wrote:

​

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit" (1 Pet 3:18).​

​

God Raised Jesus​

We also have statements that God raised Jesus. Peter said:

​

"But God raised him up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power" (Acts 2:24).​

​

Peter said to Cornelius:

​

"... but God raised him up on the third day and caused him to be seen, ..." (Acts 10:40).​

​

Paul wrote:

​

"But God raised him from the dead, ..." (Acts 13:30).​

​

In these contexts, God could refer to the Father or to the entire Trinity.

Summary​

All three members of the Trinity—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit—were involved in the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is individually ascribed to each one of them.

---

Original article located at: Don Stewart, "Who Brought Jesus Back from the Dead?" Blue Letter Bible (n.d.).

((dogma))

34. In God there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the Three
Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.

40. The Relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.

41. The Three Divine Persons are in One Another.

42. All the ad extra Activities of God are common to all Three Persons.

thks

 

[Mr GLee]

((dogma))

34. In God there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the Three
Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.

40. The Relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.

41. The Three Divine Persons are in One Another.

42. All the ad extra Activities of God are common to all Three Persons.

thks

One God the Spirit of the Holy Father (Christ) working in the Son of man producing sons of God. . born again new creatures from above.

The dynamic duo

Three is a crowd, Jesus is not ashamed to call other sons of God his brother sister and mother.

Matthew 12:50. . . .Mark 3:35

No room for a Queen Mother in heaven .

The loving commandment still applies . Call no man on earth Holy Father, Holy See. Summus Pontifex, sovereign pontiff, Pontifex Maximus, Vicar of Christ and Servus servorum Dei. supreme pontiff. . . bishop of Rome

No room for the queen mother and the invisible Holy Father which teaching master today???

The CCC book of law ? Or the lords book of law sola scriptura) What does the Pope say???

 

[Josheb]

In case the point of the op has alluded all the non-Trins here:

@DialecticSkeptic's underlying point is that Jesus is attributed divine attributes and that is done in a manner throughout the Bible that would necessarily and inescapably be idolatrously heretical and apostate if untrue..... and, being idolatrously heretical and apostate, then all of that content in the Bible would also necessarily and inescapably be unreliable and completely without veracity which, in turn, draws into question the validity and veracity of everything else found therein.

So.....

Instead of arguing over which verse means what in non-Trin based readings... try to get at the underlying fact God Himself, in His own word, attributed His own qualities to His Son, doing so in a manner that would be entirely Self-contradictory. As long as you're debating individual verses you're missing the bigger problem and just proving yourselves incapable of addressing the presuppositional problem inherent in non-trinitarianism.

How can the NT writers attribute divine attributes to Jesus and not be idolators, heretics, and apostates?

How can Jesus attribute divine attributes to himself and not make himself an idol, heretic, and apostate?

 

[Mr GLee]

In case the point of the op has alluded all the non-Trins here:

@DialecticSkeptic's underlying point is that Jesus is attributed divine attributes and that is done in a manner throughout the Bible that would necessarily and inescapably be idolatrously heretical and apostate if untrue..... and, being idolatrously heretical and apostate, then all of that content in the Bible would also necessarily and inescapably be unreliable and completely without veracity which, in turn, draws into question the validity and veracity of everything else found therein.

So.....

Instead of arguing over which verse means what in non-Trin based readings... try to get at the underlying fact God Himself, in His own word, attributed His own qualities to His Son, doing so in a manner that would be entirely Self-contradictory. As long as you're debating individual verses you're missing the bigger problem and just proving yourselves incapable of addressing the presuppositional problem inherent in non-trinitarianism.

How can the NT writers attribute divine attributes to Jesus and not be idolators, heretics, and apostates?

How can Jesus attribute divine attributes to himself and not make himself an idol, heretic, and apostate?

I would offer.

We look to the powerful things not seen (faith)

Accrediting the eternal things of our faithful Father the Holy Spirit of Christ. . . . to the son of man Jesus dying mankind. Blasphemy

It violates the first commandment have no gods. . . not one before the Father of all spirit life the breath that works in creatures

John 10:34-36;Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?;If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broke Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

By Jesus the son of man calling himself a god he informs us of the 1st commandment. He would never put himself before the Father, Christ the spiritual unseen seed.

The loving commandment hear and obey the unseen Father.

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

In that way passed on from the Pharisees with Sadducees (flesh worshippers) to Catholicism 3,500 and new his and hers gods as what they must call patron saints being added even today.

 

[Paul]

Who Brought Jesus Back from the Dead?​

The Bible has much to say about the mode of Jesus resurrection. It testifies that the three members of the Trinity were involved in Jesus resurrection.

God the Father raised Jesus​

The Bible says that God the Father brought Jesus back from the dead:

​

"This Jesus God raised up, and we are all witnesses of it. So then, exalted to the right hand of God and having received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you both see and hear" (Acts 2:32-33).​

​

Paul wrote:

​

"Therefore, we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life" (Rom 6:4).​

​

Paul wrote to the Galatians:

​

"From Paul, an apostle (not from men, nor by human agency, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised him from the dead) ..." (Gal 1:1).​

​

By raising Jesus from the dead, God the Father reversed the death sentence that was pronounced on him and exalted him to the Lord of glory.

Jesus brought himself back from the dead​

Jesus also arose by his own power:

​

"So then the Jewish leaders responded, ‘What sign can you show us, since you are doing these things?’ Jesus replied, ‘Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again’" (John 2:18-19).​

​

Speaking of his life, Jesus declared:

​

"No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down of my own free will. I have the authority to lay it down and I have the authority to take it back again. This commandment I received from my Father" (John 10:18).​

​

The Holy Spirit raised Jesus​

The third person of the Trinity was also involved in the resurrection:

​

"Moreover, if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you" (Rom 8:11).​

​

Peter wrote:

​

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit" (1 Pet 3:18).​

​

God Raised Jesus​

We also have statements that God raised Jesus. Peter said:

​

"But God raised him up, having released him from the pains of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power" (Acts 2:24).​

​

Peter said to Cornelius:

​

"... but God raised him up on the third day and caused him to be seen, ..." (Acts 10:40).​

​

Paul wrote:

​

"But God raised him from the dead, ..." (Acts 13:30).​

​

In these contexts, God could refer to the Father or to the entire Trinity.

Summary​

All three members of the Trinity—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit—were involved in the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is individually ascribed to each one of them.

---

Original article located at: Don Stewart, "Who Brought Jesus Back from the Dead?" Blue Letter Bible (n.d.).

If the Spirit of God acts on Jesus’s will and He and the Father are One then Jesus taking up His life again and God raising Him from the dead are both truth.

 

[Arial]

If the Spirit of God acts on Jesus’s will and He and the Father are One then Jesus taking up His life again and God raising Him from the dead are both truth.

Welcome to the forum Paul.