Baptism beliefs

[civic]

Okay.

Also several translations use dedication/dedicate. Here is the NASB for 1 Samuel 1:28

So I have also dedicated him to the LORD; as long as he lives he is dedicated to the LORD.” And he worshiped the LORD there.

I found this from got ?

In the majority of Protestant denominations that practice it, child dedication is a symbolic ceremony undertaken by Christian parents soon after the birth of a child. Some churches perform these ceremonies en masse and have several couples and children participating at the same time. The rite is intended to be a public statement by the parents that they will train their children in the Christian faith and seek to instill that faith in them. The congregation often responds through responsive reading or some other method to affirm that they, as a church family, will also seek to encourage the parents to bring up the child in the faith. There is no implied salvation in the ceremony, and it varies from church to church.

The idea of dedicating a child to the Lord can certainly be found in the Bible. Hannah was a barren wife who promised to dedicate her child to God if He would give her a son (1 Samuel 1:11). Luke 2:22 begins the account of Mary and Joseph taking Jesus to the temple after forty days in order to dedicate Him to the Lord. This was slightly more involved since it involved a sacrifice, but once again this ceremony did not indicate any level of salvation.

Child / baby dedication is not one of the two ordinances—baptism and the Lord’s Supper—required of Christians in the New Testament. As Christians, we are baptized and participate in the Lord’s Supper as outward and public signs of what Christ has done within us. While baby dedication is not an officially instituted ordinance of the church, there does not seem to be any conflict with Scripture as long as parents do not view it as assuring the salvation of the child.

 

[DJT_47]

It does make sense, the curse of sin fell upon all mankind, Romans 5. Due to the fallen nature, we sin, therefore our nature is not only fallen, but sinful. Thus, we sin.

Sin still must be committed and by someone accountable for their actions. If children were in sin, especially at the time of birth which is what is suggested and ridiculous, why did Jesus say what he did in the below?

Mat 19:14

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Deleted member 5]

Sin still must be committed

Nope. Romans 5 refutes that.

and by someone accountable for their actions. If children were in sin, especially at the time of birth which is what is suggested and ridiculous, why did Jesus say what he did in the below?

Mat 19:14

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Why would anyone come to Jesus unless they needed Him as sinners?

 

[DJT_47]

We are born sinners, guilty of Adam's sin imputed to us (Ro 5:12-15, 18).

That's not quite what those scriptures say. Look closely at them. It says all men, not all people. Sin must be committed by those accountable for their actions which little children and infants are not. Nevertheless, children are incapable of belief, confession, repentance, and you cannot commit someone to be baptized without their belief; you cannot simply immerse someone in the water and assume they are baptized thereby when they haven't believed. You cannot believe on behalf of someone else. There are zero examples in scripture to support such.

 

[DJT_47]

Nope. Romans 5 refutes that.

Why would anyone come to Jesus unless they needed Him as sinners?

Read my post response to Eleonore

 

[Deleted member 5]

Read my post response to Eleonore

All men means all of mankind. You're making fundamental mistakes showing you don't understand biblical terminology.

 

[DJT_47]

All men means all of mankind. You're making fundamental mistakes showing you don't understand biblical terminology.

It says all HAVE sinned. HAVE infers that all have committed. Sin must be committed, it's not inherited.

Ezekiel 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[Eleanor]

That's not quite what those scriptures say. Look closely at them. It says all men, not all people.

So the lady folk don't sin.

Sin must be committed by those accountable for their actions

Who made that rule?

which little children and infants are not. Nevertheless, children are incapable of belief, confession, repentance, and you cannot commit someone to be baptized without their belief; you cannot simply immerse someone in the water and assume they are baptized thereby when they haven't believed. You cannot believe on behalf of someone else. There are zero examples in scripture to support such.

 

[Eleanor]

It says all HAVE sinned. HAVE infers that all have committed. Sin must be committed, it's not inherited.

Correct, it is not inherited, it is imputed.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[Deleted member 5]

It says all HAVE sinned. HAVE infers that all have committed. Sin must be committed, it's not inherited.

Because you still do not grasp the text or Biblical terminology you make elementary mistakes. All of mankind was represented in Adam as "federal head," therefore all sinned.

Ezekiel 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Lol, this is speaking of life after Adam, and the literal sins of people on earth, and their accountability and personal responsibility for their sins.

You're pitting Scripture against Scripture, it doesn't negate Adam's sin, and all of mankind being guilty in him and by him as declared in Romans 5.

 

[DJT_47]

Because you still do not grasp the text or Biblical terminology you make elementary mistakes. All of mankind was represented in Adam as "federal head," therefore all sinned.

Lol, this is speaking of life after Adam, and the literal sins of people on earth, and their accountability and personal responsibility for their sins.

You're pitting Scripture against Scripture, it doesn't negate Adam's sin, and all of mankind being guilty in him and by him as declared in Romans 5.

Sin must be committed. As asked previously which no one addressed, what sin is a newborn infant guilty of? Who did he or she transgress against and what was the transgression? Infants aren't guilty of anything, nor can they believe, confess their belief, nor repent and have nothing worthy of repentance. Baptism of infants so called and practiced, is unscriptural as is pouring or sprinkling water on a person as a form of baptism. After-the-fact confirmation is unscriptural. It's all man made-up unscriptural nonsense. The below says "BELIEVERS" and "MEN and WOMEN." Romans infers men and women out of common sense, not unbelieving infants or young children.

Acts 5:14

14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

 

[Eleanor]

Sin must be committed. As asked previously which no one addressed, what sin is a newborn infant guilty of?

It was addressed from Scripture, which you "refuted" with your personal utter nonsense of "all men" does not mean "all people."

Adam's sin is imputed to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), which is the pattern (Ro 5:14) of Christ's righteousness imputed to all those born of Christ's Holy Spirit (Ro 4:1-11).

Who did he or she transgress against and what was the transgression? Infants aren't guilty of anything, nor can they believe, confess their belief, nor repent and have nothing worthy of repentance. Baptism of infants so called and practiced, is unscriptural as is pouring or sprinkling water on a person as a form of baptism. After-the-fact confirmation is unscriptural. It's all man made-up unscriptural nonsense. The below says "BELIEVERS" and "MEN and WOMEN." Romans infers men and women out of common sense, not unbelieving infants or young children.
Acts 5:14
14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

 

[Arial]

Adam's sin is imputed to all those born of Adam

Adam's sin is not imputed to us, we actually sin because we are sinners and it is for our own sins that the sinner is condemned. It is through Adam's seed that we have this indwelling nature to sin. Our sin was imputed to Jesus on the cross---it wasn't actually His sin. His righteousness is imputed to us, we are not in our thoughts and actions completely righteous. Imputed basically means counted as. We are not counted as sinners, we are sinners.

 

[DJT_47]

It was addressed from Scripture, which you "refuted" with your personal utter nonsense of "all men" does not mean "all people."

Adam's sin is imputed to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), which is the pattern (Ro 5:14) of Christ's righteousness imputed to all those born of Christ's Holy Spirit (Ro 4:1-11).

The only utter nonsense is baptism of infants. See my other post above which cites Acts 5:14

 

[Manfred]

Baptism beliefs

Based on Colossians 2:12
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Pedobaptism can be excluded.

A baby is not buried with Him in baptism, and then raised in Christ through faith, unlike a new believer who is buried in baptism and raised in Christ through faith.
Buried in baptism and being raised through faith has to happen at the same time, otherwise baptismal regeneration (to be raised in faith after being baptized) becomes true. This will then also exclude water baptism in this context for the same reason.

 

[civic]

Based on Colossians 2:12
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Pedobaptism can be excluded.

A baby is not buried with Him in baptism, and then raised in Christ through faith, unlike a new believer who is buried in baptism and raised in Christ through faith.
Buried in baptism and being raised through faith has to happen at the same time, otherwise baptismal regeneration (to be raised in faith after being baptized) becomes true. This will then also exclude water baptism in this context for the same reason.

So you do not affirm water baptism following after a person has become born again ?

How do you interpret baptism below ?

Matthew 29:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[Manfred]

So you do not affirm water baptism following after a person has become born again ?

Where did you get that from what I wrote!

How do you interpret baptism below ?

Matthew 29:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Water baptism

Now go back and read what I said about the context of Colossians 2:12 and why I believe it is not speaking of water baptism.
If you want to challenge me on that then please go ahead.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, Acts 2:38! But it says repent and be baptized for the remission or forgiveness of sin: children have no sin nor can they repent nor even have the ability to believe which is a prerequisite, so, this cannot possibly apply to children. Also, if the bible is or should be our one and only guide, you'll find no such thing as "confirmation", or after-the-fact confirming of one's belief. Confirmation is a man contrived, unscriptural doctrine.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

belief + baptism = salvation not baptism + belief. Belief is 1st followed by confession of belief as did the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8, repentance as the Jews were told to do on the of Pentecost in Acts 2, and finally immersion in water, baptism, for the remission of sins, also per Acts 2:38.

In Acts 2:38, for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Ethiopian eunuch professed his faith in Jesus in Acts 8:37 - "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" and was saved before water baptism. John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Baptism beliefs

I'm with credo baptism still... It makes the most sense to me with Scripture still, in my learning so far, but I have more reading to do.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

In Acts 2:38, for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Ethiopian eunuch professed his faith in Jesus in Acts 8:37 - "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" and was saved before water baptism. John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

its sad,

its as if satan could not use circumcision against the church because paul shot that down. so he replaced it with water baptism as a means of salvation