Baptism beliefs

[civic]

Okay.

Also several translations use dedication/dedicate. Here is the NASB for 1 Samuel 1:28

So I have also dedicated him to the LORD; as long as he lives he is dedicated to the LORD.” And he worshiped the LORD there.

I found this from got ?

In the majority of Protestant denominations that practice it, child dedication is a symbolic ceremony undertaken by Christian parents soon after the birth of a child. Some churches perform these ceremonies en masse and have several couples and children participating at the same time. The rite is intended to be a public statement by the parents that they will train their children in the Christian faith and seek to instill that faith in them. The congregation often responds through responsive reading or some other method to affirm that they, as a church family, will also seek to encourage the parents to bring up the child in the faith. There is no implied salvation in the ceremony, and it varies from church to church.

The idea of dedicating a child to the Lord can certainly be found in the Bible. Hannah was a barren wife who promised to dedicate her child to God if He would give her a son (1 Samuel 1:11). Luke 2:22 begins the account of Mary and Joseph taking Jesus to the temple after forty days in order to dedicate Him to the Lord. This was slightly more involved since it involved a sacrifice, but once again this ceremony did not indicate any level of salvation.

Child / baby dedication is not one of the two ordinances—baptism and the Lord’s Supper—required of Christians in the New Testament. As Christians, we are baptized and participate in the Lord’s Supper as outward and public signs of what Christ has done within us. While baby dedication is not an officially instituted ordinance of the church, there does not seem to be any conflict with Scripture as long as parents do not view it as assuring the salvation of the child.

 

[DJT_47]

It does make sense, the curse of sin fell upon all mankind, Romans 5. Due to the fallen nature, we sin, therefore our nature is not only fallen, but sinful. Thus, we sin.

Sin still must be committed and by someone accountable for their actions. If children were in sin, especially at the time of birth which is what is suggested and ridiculous, why did Jesus say what he did in the below?

Mat 19:14

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Deleted member 5]

Sin still must be committed

Nope. Romans 5 refutes that.

and by someone accountable for their actions. If children were in sin, especially at the time of birth which is what is suggested and ridiculous, why did Jesus say what he did in the below?

Mat 19:14

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Why would anyone come to Jesus unless they needed Him as sinners?

 

[DJT_47]

We are born sinners, guilty of Adam's sin imputed to us (Ro 5:12-15, 18).

That's not quite what those scriptures say. Look closely at them. It says all men, not all people. Sin must be committed by those accountable for their actions which little children and infants are not. Nevertheless, children are incapable of belief, confession, repentance, and you cannot commit someone to be baptized without their belief; you cannot simply immerse someone in the water and assume they are baptized thereby when they haven't believed. You cannot believe on behalf of someone else. There are zero examples in scripture to support such.

 

[DJT_47]

Nope. Romans 5 refutes that.

Why would anyone come to Jesus unless they needed Him as sinners?

Read my post response to Eleonore

 

[Deleted member 5]

Read my post response to Eleonore

All men means all of mankind. You're making fundamental mistakes showing you don't understand biblical terminology.

 

[DJT_47]

All men means all of mankind. You're making fundamental mistakes showing you don't understand biblical terminology.

It says all HAVE sinned. HAVE infers that all have committed. Sin must be committed, it's not inherited.

Ezekiel 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[Eleanor]

That's not quite what those scriptures say. Look closely at them. It says all men, not all people.

So the lady folk don't sin.

Sin must be committed by those accountable for their actions

Who made that rule?

which little children and infants are not. Nevertheless, children are incapable of belief, confession, repentance, and you cannot commit someone to be baptized without their belief; you cannot simply immerse someone in the water and assume they are baptized thereby when they haven't believed. You cannot believe on behalf of someone else. There are zero examples in scripture to support such.

 

[Eleanor]

It says all HAVE sinned. HAVE infers that all have committed. Sin must be committed, it's not inherited.

Correct, it is not inherited, it is imputed.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[Deleted member 5]

It says all HAVE sinned. HAVE infers that all have committed. Sin must be committed, it's not inherited.

Because you still do not grasp the text or Biblical terminology you make elementary mistakes. All of mankind was represented in Adam as "federal head," therefore all sinned.

Ezekiel 18:20

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Lol, this is speaking of life after Adam, and the literal sins of people on earth, and their accountability and personal responsibility for their sins.

You're pitting Scripture against Scripture, it doesn't negate Adam's sin, and all of mankind being guilty in him and by him as declared in Romans 5.

 

[DJT_47]

Because you still do not grasp the text or Biblical terminology you make elementary mistakes. All of mankind was represented in Adam as "federal head," therefore all sinned.

Lol, this is speaking of life after Adam, and the literal sins of people on earth, and their accountability and personal responsibility for their sins.

You're pitting Scripture against Scripture, it doesn't negate Adam's sin, and all of mankind being guilty in him and by him as declared in Romans 5.

Sin must be committed. As asked previously which no one addressed, what sin is a newborn infant guilty of? Who did he or she transgress against and what was the transgression? Infants aren't guilty of anything, nor can they believe, confess their belief, nor repent and have nothing worthy of repentance. Baptism of infants so called and practiced, is unscriptural as is pouring or sprinkling water on a person as a form of baptism. After-the-fact confirmation is unscriptural. It's all man made-up unscriptural nonsense. The below says "BELIEVERS" and "MEN and WOMEN." Romans infers men and women out of common sense, not unbelieving infants or young children.

Acts 5:14

14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

 

[Eleanor]

Sin must be committed. As asked previously which no one addressed, what sin is a newborn infant guilty of?

It was addressed from Scripture, which you "refuted" with your personal utter nonsense of "all men" does not mean "all people."

Adam's sin is imputed to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), which is the pattern (Ro 5:14) of Christ's righteousness imputed to all those born of Christ's Holy Spirit (Ro 4:1-11).

Who did he or she transgress against and what was the transgression? Infants aren't guilty of anything, nor can they believe, confess their belief, nor repent and have nothing worthy of repentance. Baptism of infants so called and practiced, is unscriptural as is pouring or sprinkling water on a person as a form of baptism. After-the-fact confirmation is unscriptural. It's all man made-up unscriptural nonsense. The below says "BELIEVERS" and "MEN and WOMEN." Romans infers men and women out of common sense, not unbelieving infants or young children.
Acts 5:14
14And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

 

[Arial]

Adam's sin is imputed to all those born of Adam

Adam's sin is not imputed to us, we actually sin because we are sinners and it is for our own sins that the sinner is condemned. It is through Adam's seed that we have this indwelling nature to sin. Our sin was imputed to Jesus on the cross---it wasn't actually His sin. His righteousness is imputed to us, we are not in our thoughts and actions completely righteous. Imputed basically means counted as. We are not counted as sinners, we are sinners.

 

[DJT_47]

It was addressed from Scripture, which you "refuted" with your personal utter nonsense of "all men" does not mean "all people."

Adam's sin is imputed to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), which is the pattern (Ro 5:14) of Christ's righteousness imputed to all those born of Christ's Holy Spirit (Ro 4:1-11).

The only utter nonsense is baptism of infants. See my other post above which cites Acts 5:14

 

[Manfred]

Baptism beliefs

Based on Colossians 2:12
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Pedobaptism can be excluded.

A baby is not buried with Him in baptism, and then raised in Christ through faith, unlike a new believer who is buried in baptism and raised in Christ through faith.
Buried in baptism and being raised through faith has to happen at the same time, otherwise baptismal regeneration (to be raised in faith after being baptized) becomes true. This will then also exclude water baptism in this context for the same reason.

 

[civic]

Based on Colossians 2:12
Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Pedobaptism can be excluded.

A baby is not buried with Him in baptism, and then raised in Christ through faith, unlike a new believer who is buried in baptism and raised in Christ through faith.
Buried in baptism and being raised through faith has to happen at the same time, otherwise baptismal regeneration (to be raised in faith after being baptized) becomes true. This will then also exclude water baptism in this context for the same reason.

So you do not affirm water baptism following after a person has become born again ?

How do you interpret baptism below ?

Matthew 29:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[Manfred]

So you do not affirm water baptism following after a person has become born again ?

Where did you get that from what I wrote!

How do you interpret baptism below ?

Matthew 29:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Water baptism

Now go back and read what I said about the context of Colossians 2:12 and why I believe it is not speaking of water baptism.
If you want to challenge me on that then please go ahead.