Water Baptism

[Carbon]

Acts 2 only has 47 verses.

We agree here.

 

[Carbon]

Yes Grace is his mercy but even at that he has a calling that must be obeyed. There is something that sets us apart from the world. We have to accept that grace he has freely offered or we don't get to enjoy this free gift he has given the terms in which he will extend this grace it is by faith in his gospel for the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Salvation is not universal it must be grasped.

Stop trusting in the waters of baptism, trust in Christ alone.

 

[Arial]

Are you spouting universal salvation or is there something one has to do if not something to accept the free gift then everyone is saved if not by your terms faith becomes a work

No, I am not spouting universal salvation. Where in anything I have said, did that come from? A person has to believe in the person and work of Christ and as the way to God and the kingdom and that he is the only way. The unregenerate (natural) person cannot believe. It is foolishness to him (1 Cor 2:14). He must be born again first (John 3). The Holy Spirit does that. He goes where he will according to the will of the God. He changes a person's heart from hard and turned away from him to one soft, turned towards him (Ez 36:26). Then when he hears, he believes. (The gift of faith.) It is not a matter of accepting or rejecting this gift. It is given through a regenerating act of God. Monergism. All of God. Anything less, is a work.

You just described yourself . I did another post on Romans 6 verse over verse hope you find it.
I don't understand I thought you said that Romans 6 is not describing what happens in the baptism of Acts 2:38 while I am trying to show scripture that says it is indeed an explanation of Act 2:38

Do you realize that you quoted something and gave no indication of who said what or even who you are directing it to. The top half of the quote is something I said, the bottom half is something you said.

In Acts10:43-48 you will notice that all those who believed received the Holy Spirit and were saved before they were water baptized. I have pointed that out to you now four times, you ignore it, and create a circle. One which I am stepping out of as you are not posting in good faith.

Repentance is a turning from sinful nature to a godly lifestyle for a brief description

One can't turn from a sinful nature anymore that a leopard can change its spots. Remember in the thread the Baptism of John what the repentance was for Israel? It was turning away from the ways national Israel had broken the covenant, and back to covenant obedience. Then they were baptized to show this repentance and desire for cleansing. It identified the faithful remnant.
Now put that in relation to Christian repentance. Non-Jews were not in a covenant, so our repentance is different but similar. It is much bigger because it is eternal. It is much bigger because it actually deals with the issue that is the cause of all our woes---sin. And not just our personal sins but the nature of being a sinner (sinful being) through Adam. So, what we are repenting of is our very enmity with God, our very alienation from him. We are submitting to him as our King and sovereign. And we are coming to him through Christ who died for us, wearing is robes of righteousness. Not in our own righteousness, for we have none. That is what remits our sins. Not water baptism.

Why are you trying to deflect away from studying the true meaning of baptism? I am not saying not to study faith or any other passage but we are discussing baptism why does that bother you so much.

I'm not and it doesn't. Why don't you discuss what I had to say about it instead of deflecting from not discussing what I said about it with this? There is a lot I have said and with exegetical scriptural backing and you ignore all of it. That tells me that you have to ignore it because after all, it did show the contradictions your view makes in God's word.

 

[Carbon]

@BillyBob65

How did God save us? By water baptism?

Ahh, nope!

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5.

As scripture tells you, not by works of righteousness. And according to scripture, isn't that what baptism is?
Matthew 3:13-14.
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.

 

[Carbon]

Are you spouting universal salvation or is there something one has to do if not something to accept the free gift then everyone is saved if not by your terms faith becomes a work

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.


Are you denying that salvation is a gift?

 

[BillyBob65]

Stop trusting in the waters of baptism, trust in Christ alone.

I am trusting in Christ alone. I trust that when he told me to be baptized in his name He knew what he was talking about unlike some and trusted he did Just as Paul said happened in that baptism in Romans 6 sounds to me that you are trying to trump what Jesus said with your own belief but thank you for your advise but I will take Jesus teaching over your no offence.

 

[Carbon]

I am trusting in Christ alone. I trust that when he told me to be baptized in his name He knew what he was talking about unlike some and trusted he did Just as Paul said happened in that baptism in Romans 6 sounds to me that you are trying to trump what Jesus said with your own belief but thank you for your advise but I will take Jesus teaching over your no offence.

I am quite sure many things sound to you like . . . . That's to be expected.

Listen to Paul,

Acts 10:43-47
43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Did you notice here when the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out? Did you notice the effects?
And what did Peter say afterwards? :47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

 

[Arial]

We agree here.

I meant Acts 10. See post 58 where I first gave it to him/

 

[Arial]

I am trusting in Christ alone. I trust that when he told me to be baptized in his name He knew what he was talking about unlike some and trusted he did Just as Paul said happened in that baptism in Romans 6 sounds to me that you are trying to trump what Jesus said with your own belief but thank you for your advise but I will take Jesus teaching over your no offence.

You are saying Christ himself in his life, death, resurrection, and ascension are insufficient for salvation if it also takes water baptism for the remission of those sins. That is no different than the Judaizers of Paul's day saying he was insufficient, they also had to be circumcised in order to be saved.

 

[Carbon]

You are saying Christ himself in his life, death, resurrection, and ascension are insufficient for salvation if it also takes water baptism for the remission of those sins. That is no different than the Judaizers of Paul's day saying he was insufficient, they also had to be circumcised in order to be saved.

He sounds like he may be from the church of Christ.

 

[Arial]

Really don't know what you are talking about and we must have different bibles because in my bible Acts 2 only has 47 verses.

It is supposed to be Acts 10. Is that in your Bible? I quoted the whole thing in post #58. No response. By now you are pounding on Act 2:38 so hard and frequently that when I write "Acts" muscle memory follows it with 2.

 

[BillyBob65]

[quote[ Arial Said: (Mod Edit) No, I am not spouting universal salvation. Where in anything I have said, did that come from? A person has to believe in the person and work of Christ and as the way to God and the kingdom and that he is the only way. The unregenerate (natural) person cannot believe. It is foolishness to him (1 Cor 2:14). He must be born again first (John 3). The Holy Spirit does that. He goes where he will according to the will of the God. He changes a person's heart from hard and turned away from him to one soft, turned towards him (Ez 36:26). Then when he hears, he believes. (The gift of faith.) It is not a matter of accepting or rejecting this gift. It is given through a regenerating act of God. Monergism. All of God. Anything less, is a work.[/quote]
Arial Said:

A person has to believe in the person and work of Christ and as the way to God and the kingdom and that he is the only way.

This I agree with and we find the way in Acts 2 where the gospel is preached for the first time when the doors of the church are opened and God starts adding to the church for the first time. The way is there we just have to follow the teaching to find Gods plan. The gospel call is sent out they believe and ask what to do to be saved and Peter tells them and then God adds them .

Romans 10:8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Looks to me like man can hear the gospel believe the gospel and obey the gospel. It doesn't say men can not understand without divine intervention.

You just described yourself . I did another post on Romans 6 verse over verse hope you find it.
I don't understand I thought you said that Romans 6 is not describing what happens in the baptism of Acts 2:38 while I am trying to show scripture that says it is indeed an explanation of Act 2:38

here I was saying you just described yourself with this statement ". You have already made up your mind, already determined that it means what you say, and are impervious to anything said about it that does not agree."
Arial Said:

In Acts10:43-48 you will notice that all those who believed received the Holy Spirit and were saved before they were water baptized. I have pointed that out to you now four times, you ignore it, and create a circle. One which I am stepping out of as you are not posting in good faith.

I did respond to that it is you that did not respond to what I posted on that. I will try to find the post and redirect you to my response.

[quote[]Arial Said:
One can't turn from a sinful nature anymore that a leopard can change its spots. Remember in the thread the Baptism of John what the repentance was for Israel? It was turning away from the ways national Israel had broken the covenant, and back to covenant obedience. Then they were baptized to show this repentance and desire for cleansing. It identified the faithful remnant.
Now put that in relation to Christian repentance. Non-Jews were not in a covenant, so our repentance is different but similar. It is much bigger because it is eternal. It is much bigger because it actually deals with the issue that is the cause of all our woes---sin. And not just our personal sins but the nature of being a sinner (sinful being) through Adam. So, what we are repenting of is our very enmity with God, our very alienation from him. We are submitting to him as our King and sovereign. And we are coming to him through Christ who died for us, wearing is robes of righteousness. Not in our own righteousness, for we have none. That is what remits our sins. Not water baptism.[/quote] I can agree with you on the turning away from sin and "submitting to him as our King and sovereign". Where I have to disagree is that that alone is where sin is remitted because according to scripture it is when one repents and is baptized in the name of Christ that sins are remitted. Romans 6 testify's to that fact that it is when were were baptized that the old sinful man was buried.
Arial Said:

I'm not and it doesn't. Why don't you discuss what I had to say about it instead of deflecting from not discussing what I said about it with this? There is a lot I have said and with exegetical scriptural backing and you ignore all of it. That tells me that you have to ignore it because after all, it did show the contradictions your view makes in God's word.

I am sorry I have been trying to respond to your remarks sorry if I haven't done a good at it. I will try to do better. It is just this is going fast and My mind must not be keeping up so I am sorry and will work on that.

 

[BillyBob65]

@BillyBob65

How did God save us? By water baptism?

Ahh, nope!

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5.

As scripture tells you, not by works of righteousness. And according to scripture, isn't that what baptism is?
Matthew 3:13-14.
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.

My friend you will find the answer to in Acts chapter 2 it is all spelled out for you right there when the doors to the kingdom were opened for the first time and God started adding to the church. If the baptism in Christ name gives you pause and you need a better understanding of it Paul explains just how it remits sin and gives the new life in the spirit.

 

[BillyBob65]

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.


Are you denying that salvation is a gift?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Read this whole chapter to learn how we become under grace.

 

[Carbon]

My friend you will find the answer to in Acts chapter 2 it is all spelled out for you right there when the doors to the kingdom were opened for the first time and God started adding to the church. If the baptism in Christ name gives you pause and you need a better understanding of it Paul explains just how it remits sin and gives the new life in the spirit.

Wow, you ignore so much. Sad

 

[BillyBob65]

I am quite sure many things sound to you like . . . . That's to be expected.

Listen to Paul,

Acts 10:43-47
43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
Did you notice here when the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out? Did you notice the effects?
And what did Peter say afterwards? :47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Okay see you are doing what you accuse me of you are taking this chapter out of context to try to make it fit your views. We really need to take this chapter and study it to get to the truth of what is being said here. It is a long post so needs to have its own thread.

In short you must figure out the difference of spirit upon what and why it means and the spirit with in they have two different functions and until you understand that this will not make sense to you.

I am willing to go into an in depth study with you on this chapter if you wish.

First question do you agree that this is where the gentiles are being added go the church?

 

[BillyBob65]

You are saying Christ himself in his life, death, resurrection, and ascension are insufficient for salvation if it also takes water baptism for the remission of those sins. That is no different than the Judaizers of Paul's day saying he was insufficient, they also had to be circumcised in order to be saved.

I am saying how can you read Romans 6 and not see that in baptism (Acts 2:38) is where God remits sin. He buries the old man of sin and raises the new life in Christ. The whole chapter is dealing with thus fact. It clearly states that it is when we are baptized (Acts 2 :38) that we are baptized into his death (gospel his death burial and resurrection) this is where God does his spiritual work of transforming us from dead in sin to alive in Christ (new birth/born again). I for the life of me can not understand how anyone spiritual or not can not read this and understand what Paul is saying.
Paul says thus is the grace the new life the born again how we are to obey the gospel. It is all there all spelled out that even a fourth grader can understand. The problem is it does not fit with some peoples man made views. Some have harden there hearts to this truth to cling to there own understanding.

 

[BillyBob65]

He sounds like he may be from the church of Christ.

It sounds like he is just someone reading the bible and taking it for its word.

 

[BillyBob65]

It is supposed to be Acts 10. Is that in your Bible? I quoted the whole thing in post #58. No response. By now you are pounding on Act 2:38 so hard and frequently that when I write "Acts" muscle memory follows it with 2.

I have dealt with this is separate posts I will have to find them for there were more than one and they did not get a response from anyone.

 

[BillyBob65]

Wow, you ignore so much. Sad

What did I ignore I answered with scripture this time it was a complete chapter that answers your question.What I think doesn't matter so I point you to what God said on the matter. If you have trouble understanding what God said I will try to help you.