• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

Water Baptism

[quote[ No, I am not spouting universal salvation. Where in anything I have said, did that come from? A person has to believe in the person and work of Christ and as the way to God and the kingdom and that he is the only way. The unregenerate (natural) person cannot believe. It is foolishness to him (1 Cor 2:14). He must be born again first (John 3). The Holy Spirit does that. He goes where he will according to the will of the God. He changes a person's heart from hard and turned away from him to one soft, turned towards him (Ez 36:26). Then when he hears, he believes. (The gift of faith.) It is not a matter of accepting or rejecting this gift. It is given through a regenerating act of God. Monergism. All of God. Anything less, is a work.


This I agree with and we find the way in Acts 2 where the gospel is preached for the first time when the doors of the church are opened and God starts adding to the church for the first time. The way is there we just have to follow the teaching to find Gods plan. The gospel call is sent out they believe and ask what to do to be saved and Peter tells them and then God adds them .

Romans 10:8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Looks to me like man can hear the gospel believe the gospel and obey the gospel. It doesn't say men can not understand without divine intervention.

here I was saying you just described yourself with this statement ". You have already made up your mind, already determined that it means what you say, and are impervious to anything said about it that does not agree."

I did respond to that it is you that did not respond to what I posted on that. I will try to find the post and redirect you to my response.

One can't turn from a sinful nature anymore that a leopard can change its spots. Remember in the thread the Baptism of John what the repentance was for Israel? It was turning away from the ways national Israel had broken the covenant, and back to covenant obedience. Then they were baptized to show this repentance and desire for cleansing. It identified the faithful remnant.
Now put that in relation to Christian repentance. Non-Jews were not in a covenant, so our repentance is different but similar. It is much bigger because it is eternal. It is much bigger because it actually deals with the issue that is the cause of all our woes---sin. And not just our personal sins but the nature of being a sinner (sinful being) through Adam. So, what we are repenting of is our very enmity with God, our very alienation from him. We are submitting to him as our King and sovereign. And we are coming to him through Christ who died for us, wearing is robes of righteousness. Not in our own righteousness, for we have none. That is what remits our sins. Not water baptism.
I can agree with you on the turning away from sin and "submitting to him as our King and sovereign". Where I have to disagree is that that alone is where sin is remitted because according to scripture it is when one repents and is baptized in the name of Christ that sins are remitted. Romans 6 testify's to that fact that it is when were were baptized that the old sinful man was buried.

I am sorry I have been trying to respond to your remarks sorry if I haven't done a good at it. I will try to do better. It is just this is going fast and My mind must not be keeping up so I am sorry and will work on that.
[/QUOTE]
sorry for the repeat but edit button didn't work so this is the only way I knew to fix it.
 
Okay see you are doing what you accuse me of you are taking this chapter out of context to try to make it fit your views. We really need to take this chapter and study it to get to the truth of what is being said here. It is a long post so needs to have its own thread.
Hardly. You just cannot see it any other way than what you have been taught. Sadly.
In short you must figure out the difference of spirit upon what and why it means and the spirit with in they have two different functions and until you understand that this will not make sense to you.
Really? And what have you been taught here?
I am willing to go into an in depth study with you on this chapter if you wish.
Sure, I have no issue with this. But it must be done correctly. You are not a teacher here.
First question do you agree that this is where the gentiles are being added go the church?
Again, you are not the teacher here. You're a visitor.
 
I am willing to go into an in depth study with you on this chapter if you wish.

First question do you agree that this is where the gentiles are being added go the church

You would like to do an in-depth study on Acts ch 10, huh?
 
Hardly. You just cannot see it any other way than what you have been taught. Sadly.

Really? And what have you been taught here?

Sure, I have no issue with this. But it must be done correctly. You are not a teacher here.

Again, you are not the teacher here. You're a visitor.
That is really funny you calling me out on this. This is exactly my thoughts about you.
I don't claim to be a teacher just stating what I understand the word is actually saying. Are you the teacher here?
 
I am saying how can you read Romans 6 and not see that in baptism (Acts 2:38) is where God remits sin. He buries the old man of sin and raises the new life in Christ. The whole chapter is dealing with thus fact. It clearly states that it is when we are baptized (Acts 2 :38) that we are baptized into his death (gospel his death burial and resurrection) this is where God does his spiritual work of transforming us from dead in sin to alive in Christ (new birth/born again). I for the life of me can not understand how anyone spiritual or not can not read this and understand what Paul is saying.
Paul says thus is the grace the new life the born again how we are to obey the gospel. It is all there all spelled out that even a fourth grader can understand. The problem is it does not fit with some peoples man made views. Some have harden there hearts to this truth to cling to there own understanding.
Acts 10 disagrees. I guess I will have to exegete Romans 6 using proper Bible hermeneutics for you. But not tonite. And then I am done with you. I am not inclined to spin in a circle.
 
Looks to me like man can hear the gospel believe the gospel and obey the gospel. It doesn't say men can not understand without divine intervention.
I gave you the scripture in 1 Cor that says exactly that. So does John 3 and John 1: 12-13 Do you just believe the verses you want to and pretend the ones you don't want to believe aren't there? Those passages you gave do not say that everyone without exception can hear the gospel believe the gospel and obey the gospel. In fact, it says some don't.
here I was saying you just described yourself with this statement ". You have already made
Well, I am not the one who said I was trying to determine something when I wasn't because I had already determined that something. That was you.
I am sorry I have been trying to respond to your remarks sorry if I haven't done a good at it. I will try to do better. It is just this is going fast and My mind must not be keeping up so I am sorry and will work on that.
All well and good. But why did you quote an entire paragraph of mine that contained a lot of information and say nothing about it?
 
I have dealt with this is separate posts I will have to find them for there were more than one and they did not get a response from anyone.
Please make a note of your posts that have not been responded to. I don't always get an alert.
 
All well and good. But why did you quote an entire paragraph of mine that contained a lot of information and say nothing about it?
My laptop is acting up and driving me crazy sorry for that
 
Please make a note of your posts that have not been responded to. I don't always get an alert.
Likewise I may have missed some as well there are sometimes a lot of new responses while I am dealing with one and I get lost. Mostly you keep saying I do not respond to your Acts 10 but but I have been trying and can't remember responses on my response. Not saying there isn't I could have missed it.I prepared a post on Acts !0 dealing with the complete chapter I will be posting shortly
 
A study I did on Acts 10

In this chapter it is going to be God adding the gentiles to the kingdom just as was foretold the Jews first then the gentiles. Now comes the time ro fulfill this prophecy. We see God chose the household pf Cornelius to add the gentiles in. He answers Cornelius payer by telling him to send for Peter and it will be told what Cornelius must do to enter the Kingdom.

5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

then we read of God preparing Peter for the quest. We know that the Jews had nothing to do with the gentile and called them unclean. So in the following verses God is preparing Peter to accept this upcoming mission.

8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
1 0And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou
common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

God is showing Peter that the gentile is no longer to be considered unclean but acceptable unto God.

17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

See Peter still does not fully understand what the vision meant but God said go and doubt nothing for he sent the men to Peter.

21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

Here we see where the two groups came together and verified the mission before them. Even though The Jew thought of the gentiles as unclean and to be avoided they did as God told them still uncertain as to why.

25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

See here is the proof that the Jews were uncertain as to why they were sent to Cornelius but did as asked by God. They ask Cornelius as to why he sent for them.

30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

See here Cornelius tells Peter why he was sent for. This Plays right into Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

God sent the message to the gentiles. The gospel is now going to be offered to the gentiles as Joel foretold
Acts 2:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

It went to the Jews and now it is being sent to the gentiles.

34 hen Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Peter starts to preach the gospel that God sent him to preach.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Now this is important to stick with biblical facts. There is the spirit upon which falls on a given target for a specific reason. It will come with power gifts for witness

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

This is the spirit upon which came upon the household of Cornelius to prove to the doubting Jews that God wants the gentiles to be given the chance to respond to the gospel. It is not the indwelling spirit which the will receive later but a sign to the Jews that God has accepted the gentiles.


45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This verse confirms to who the sign was for. It tells you it was for the circumcision which believed The Jews because they could not believe that God would include the gentiles therefore they were astonished at what just happened. This had not happened since it happened to the Apostles on the day of Pentecost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

This proves it was the spirit upon and not the spirit within. The signs of witness verifies that for the indwelling does not come with the power of witness that has to be transfer from an Apostle.

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter is saying that now that God has selected these they must be granted the baptism in Christ name just as everyone else to recieve the remission of sin and giving of the indwelling spirit (Acts 2:38).
Evert conversion ends with them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Romans 6 explains why.
 
Back
Top