Eleanor, I fully agree and defend, that we died in Adam and judgment of condemnation was passed on us in Adam! I'm not fighting this truth, for the same truth of the gospel is that we have the righteousness of God freely given to us by God grace through Christ being our surety ~ acting on our behalf~these glorious truth I would never argue against, never!
I am hoping that we can come to agreement on this.
I like you too much not to.
So let me begin with:
1)
Inheritance and Imputation are not the same thing.
The
sinful nature is inherited from Adam in birth.
The
guilt of Adam's sin is not inherited, it is imputed.
Imputation is not a "passing on" by
inheritance through birth.
Imputation is an assigning, an accounting, a
reckoning, an
accrediting to us of the sin/guilt of Adam,
and also of the righteousness of Christ which removed the guilt for our sin on the cross.
We are accounted/accredited (imputed)
with sin/guilt (of Adam's disobedience),
as
we are accounted/accredited (imputed)
with righteousness (of Christ's obedience removing our sin on the cross). (Ro 5:18-19)
2) Likewise,
sin and transgression are not the same thing, but they are used interchangeably in the NT.
Sin is
missing the mark, while
transgression is
willful and intentional crossing the line of specific commands (Thou shalt not"), the penalty of which is death.
All transgression (deliberate crossing the line) is sin (missing the mark), but not all sin is transgression.
Agree scriptures interpret each other, they do not contradict each other ~ contradiction lies in man's inability of rightly divide the word of truth.
Eleanor, I'm not contradicting Romans 5:12-14~Paul was "not establishing that there was no law" post Eden and before the Mosaic law was given on two tables of stones at Mount Sinai.
Paul is establishing that
there was no transgression of law, therefore, they did not sin (
Ro 5:14).
(because there were no specific commands/law as in Eden and Mt. Sinai--to transgress) after Eden and before the Mosaic law was given.
Therefore,
where there is no law (command),
there is no transgression (
Ro 4:15).
"Before the law was given sin (missing the mark) was in the world, but sin is not taken into account (is not transgression) when there is no law (specific command, "Thou shalt not")," (Ro 5:13).
The whole argument of imputation of Adam's sin in Ro 5:12-14 rests on there being no law to transgress (which would invoke the death penalty, and would, therefore, explain the death of all mankind between Adam and Moses).
Therefore, their deaths were due to guilt of some other sin (imputation of Adam's sin/guilt).
Paul's argument is as follows:
1) he begins with his conclusion, what he will demonstrate:
death came to all men because all sinned (transgressed), (
Ro 5:12)
2) sin (transgression, breaking a command, invoking death penalty) is not taken into account where there is no law to transgress, (Ro 4:15),
3)
so where there is no law to transgress, there is no death penalty for transgression, (
Ro 5:13)
4) there was no law (command, "Thou shalt not") to
transgress between Adam and Moses to cause any death of mankind, (Ro 5:14)
5) yet all died even though
they did not sin (transgress)
by committing transgression (
breaking a command). (
Ro 5:14).
Paul's conclusion: What sin (transgression) caused their death? The sin (transgression) of Adam
imputed to all those of Adam,
and which was the
pattern (
Ro 5:14) for the imputation of Christ's righteousness to those of Christ.
However, you assert that the conclusion is "Paul was not establishing there was no law."
Please demonstrate in a logical explanation Paul's argument of the imputation of Adam's sin, omitting none of the five facts above.
Again, Paul’s argument is not to establish any laws before Moses
I do not argue that Paul is
establishing laws before Moses.
I argue that before Moses there were
no specific commands (laws) to violate (
transgress, which
transgression is the only cause of death between Adam and Moses).
other than that given to Adam,
for he is proving representation and imputation. I agree that men experienced both spiritual and physical death as a result of sin, Adam’s sin (
Genesis 3:19;
5:3-8;
6:21-22).
But for us to say there was no law post Eden to Mount Sinai, is to not be faithful with other scriptures and make them contradict themselves, or, more that, it makes us look like school children still sitting at the schoolmaster's feet and still trying to learn.
Eleanor, us Gentlies have never had a codes of law delivered unto us~and neither have most of the people that has ever lived in this world~what we and they have is what you denied.......
the law of God written on our conscience at creation! The law of Moses in nothing more than an expansion of that law. For you said:
Then please explain these scriptures, for words have no meaning if what you are saying is true.
The subject is not about
no sin (against the law written on their hearts, or otherwise), the subject is about
no transgression (deliberate and willful violation of specific command, "Thou shalt not"), of which there were none between Adam's fall and Sinai.
The floor is yours, I'll speak after you are finished.
