Here is what I understand from the scriptures.
Asking someone are they an annihilationist is like calling all dogs a certain breed~when there are many different breeds among dogs.
Concerning the the very elect~they have eternal life now at the very moment of the new birth. They do not die but immediately are with God at the death of their bodies.
Yes, Lord I believe!
Believer's new man CANNOT DIE, which is created after the image of Jesus CHrist and just as holy as he is, shall live forever, even after the death of our bodies of sin and death! The great Reformer, Martin Luther did not understand this truth, he believed in soul sleep, even for believers! I do not ~ I believe all of the righteous have been with God since Abel onward ~ I do not believe in a place in the middle of the earth where there was a great gulf that separated the wicked from the righteous before the cross, that all went to.......that's RCC heresy which we reject~it is attached/ part of their wicked doctrine of purgatory.
Concerning the wicked~When they die they go in darkness, silence, unconsciousness, waiting for the resurrection of their bodies to be judged and then cast into the lake of fire which the scriptures said clearly..... is the second death. A total destruction.
A endless suffering for the wicked is not the payment Christ paid for our sins, yet he paid the full penalty for our sins which was being put to DEATH, and he would have remain there if death had power over him, yet the king of terror did not, he arose from the dead victorious, he triumph over death, the grave, and hell fire or, the lake of fire.
Eleanor, I do not see anywhere in the scriptures where the wicked are NOW in hellfire suffering ~ later at the resurrection at the last day to be brought out to be judged and then cast back in the fire to suffer eternally, that is so irrational to even believe such a thing much less having no scriptures to prove that most ridiculous doctrine. All through the scriptures it teaches us that the wicked or unbelievers shall PERISH!
So, I must understand the scriptures to teach that the wicked do not live forever, but they shall perish forever.
I would offer
Is there any difference between sufferings unto death and actual dying . . "dead never to rise" ?
We are given two different kinds of teachings on death . The three day demonstration of the lamb slain from the first six days the father worked, a picture or parable of salvation using the Son of man. Jesus And four days a picture as a testimony of the result of the gospel its testimony four days a of keeping a body from corrupting to the point of no return. . no rising .
Define dead using John 11. I would think it is the best commentary on Christian death. Jesus wept saddened at the disciples unbelief .
You might have another favorite commentary.
John 11:17_35Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the
grave four days already. Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off: And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house. Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord,
if thou hadst been here, my
brother had not
died. But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.Martha saith unto him,
I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead,
(though he was not he is dead) yet shall he live:And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee. As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him. Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him. The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying,
She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
(morning the dead) Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord,
if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he
groaned in the
spirit, and was
troubled. And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.
Jesus wept.
(saddened unto death )
The difference between the three and four day demonstration of the father working with strengthening the Son of man Jesus .The father removed the graveclothes' and rolled back the stone . . the finishing touch of the three days and nights promised demonstration.
After four days the disciples in Christian fellowship they were instructed to roll back the stone (not buried 6 feet under) "no oxygen" food for worms. . They removed the grave clothes (stinky Job). . welcome to the Christian world.
They were confused they recognized the last days the giving of the new incorruptible body "( I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the
last days") they just did not realizes it effects begin while living in a a body of death before the last day under the Sun the day when all saints receive the promise of a new incorruptible body that will never die or grow old in dying
John 11: 36-41 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him! And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. Jesus said,
Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time
he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?Then they
took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said,
Father, I thank
thee that
thou hast
heard me.
The thing is did they
hear the
parable or literalize
it?
unto death or
dead never to
rise.
