WHEN IS A JEW NOT A JEW?

[Shulammite]

Can you show me where I can find that concept in Scripture?
What is meant by a 'spiritual Jew' anyways?
What's wrong with being a spiritual Gentile?

Gentile means heathen. It is an obvious concept. How are you considered a heathen anymore when grafted into the original tree- Romans 11 by faith? All are nourished by the same root. Jew comes from the name Judah meaning ( In Praise of God). Hebrew means ( traversed one/ one who has traversed). That means called from one side of things to another. Before Abraham was a Hebrew he was a heathen born from among heathens. Heathen simply refers to those not in worship of the one true God. Abram was called to come out of his father's home and land and follow the unseen God. He traversed from one side of the Jordan River to the other. Therefore, like father Abraham, the gentile / heathen from among other nations are called out of the darkness into God's marvelous light and Hebrew- Traverse. The gentile therefore, is called a Hebrew like father Abraham. Prove father Abraham was not born among the heathen. You won't, no one will because the scriptures do not lie.

 

[prism]

Gentile means heathen. It is an obvious concept. How are you considered a heathen anymore when grafted into the original tree- Romans 11 by faith? All are nourished by the same root. Jew comes from the name Judah meaning ( In Praise of God). Hebrew means ( traversed one/ one who has traversed). That means called from one side of things to another. Before Abraham was a Hebrew he was a heathen born from among heathens. Heathen simply refers to those not in worship of the one true God. Abram was called to come out of his father's home and land and follow the unseen God. He traversed from one side of the Jordan River to the other. Therefore, like father Abraham, the gentile / heathen from among other nations are called out of the darkness into God's marvelous light and Hebrew- Traverse. The gentile therefore, is called a Hebrew like father Abraham. Prove father Abraham was not born among the heathen. You won't, no one will because the scriptures do not lie.

Nice bit of reasoning and word play, but I simply asked, "Can you show me where I can find 'believing Gentiles called 'spiritual Jews' in Scripture?
Paul never addresses Gentile members of the Church as 'spiritual Jews'. Just one verse will do.

 

[Shulammite]

Nice bit of reasoning and word play, but I simply asked, "Can you show me where I can find 'believing Gentiles called 'spiritual Jews' in Scripture?
Paul never addresses Gentile members of the Church as 'spiritual Jews'. Just one verse will do.

I simply told you. I'll drop scripture after I return shortly. Funny how if I put a math equation with the answer people can understand that the answer is the sum of the parts. Every true child of God understands the scriptures and God's heart and language revealed within because " He then opened their minds to the scriptures." I gave you a clear sum of the parts. Not my fault you can't do math. I'll write out the equations on the board. The sum is elementary, there could be no other outcome for a grafted in Gentile nourushed by the same original root as any true Jew. That isn't rocket science that is common sense. Same root, same outcome...... Hello???

 

[Shulammite]

Nice bit of reasoning and word play, but I simply asked, "Can you show me where I can find 'believing Gentiles called 'spiritual Jews' in Scripture?
Paul never addresses Gentile members of the Church as 'spiritual Jews'. Just one verse will do.

Should leave your Lutheran tendencies at the door and enter into the Prism of Christ and know the meaning of Joseph's Coat of many colors.

 

[grace2]

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: Rom. 7:14.

So?

 

[grace2]

There are natural Jews who disbelieve and there are natural Jews who believe. (The latter are 'spiritual' Jews).
There are natural Gentiles who disbelieve and there are natural Gentiles who believe. (The latter are 'spiritual' Gentiles)
Believing Gentiles are never referred to as 'spiritual' Jews in the Bible.

According to Jesus, all faithful ones are spiritual Jews.

Read post#190

 

[prism]

I simply told you. I'll drop scripture after I return shortly. Funny how if I put a math equation with the answer people can understand that the answer is the sum of the parts. Every true child of God understands the scriptures and God's heart and language revealed within because " He then opened their minds to the scriptures." I gave you a clear sum of the parts. Not my fault you can't do math. I'll write out the equations on the board. The sum is elementary, there could be no other outcome for a grafted in Gentile nourushed by the same original root as any true Jew. That isn't rocket science that is common sense. Same root, same outcome...... Hello???

Very condescending, but not an answer. Man can reason his way to 2+2=3, but it doesn’t make it so.

 

[prism]

Should leave your Lutheran tendencies at the door and enter into the Prism of Christ and know the meaning of Joseph's Coat of many colors.

I’ll take revelation from God any day over reason from man, if that is the Lutheran tendency you are referring to.

 

[prism]

According to Jesus, all faithful ones are spiritual Jews.

Read post#190

I read post #190, but all I see is Jesus castigating the unbelieving Jews, but nothing about Gentiles being ‘spiritual’ Jews. Am I missing something?

 

[grace2]

I read post #190, but all I see is Jesus castigating the unbelieving Jews, but nothing about Gentiles being ‘spiritual’ Jews. Am I missing something?

You are missing the point Jesus is making.

Those Pharisees who were not faithful ones, Jesus called them are children of the devil.

 

[Shulammite]

Very condescending, but not an answer. Man can reason his way to 2+2=3, but it doesn’t make it so.

I'm not at my desk right now. This can easily be summed up with you answering this. If a wild olive branch is grafted into a cultivated olive tree alongside the original olive branches can you tell the difference? Are they not both nourished by the same root- yes or no? Lastly, what do you consider yourself as in the scheme of the New Covenant? What you say will determine if you alone think 2+2 = 3. Set forth your thoughts on the equation of scripture and tell me where you think the called out gentile stands ( as remaining heathen or as a Hebrew) shouldn't be difficult unless you are deliberately obtuse.

 

[prism]

You are missing the point Jesus is making.

Those Pharisees who were not faithful ones, Jesus called them are children of the devil.

That's one thing, but I thought the current issue was whether the Gentiles were considered 'spiritual' Jews.

 

[Shulammite]

I’ll take revelation from God any day over reason from man, if that is the Lutheran tendency you are referring to.

No. I am not like one of those St. Paul addressed who say " I follow Apollo, I follow Paul etc. As Paul said , it is no one but Christ Who shed His blood for me. Therefore, I don't call myself anything but a Christian I say I follow Christ- only. I have Christ like tendencies, period! Not Luther, Calvin etc..... no one died for my sins but Christ.

I know both RC and the Reformer history well and I know who butters my bread. My God is the only one who gives growth. I love how many Reformers want so much to get back at the "Romanish" assembly that they become Judaizers disowning the full doctrine of the Messiah for the replacement doctrine of the circumcision party. You're all lap dogs for the "Jews" not the faith. You try to close out the kingdom of heaven to others and you yourself don't even enter. There is nothing more Jewish, you can get no more Jewish than being in Christ who is King of the Jews. Keep preaching a locked out kingdom the only one you will find locked out is you and the like. Stop selling out for thirty pieces of silver.

Since one is a Jew when one is inwardly as Paul said and not by the mark in the flesh but of the circumcision of the heart and spirit in Christ -all are the same once grafted in because each is born of the same spirit and nourished by the same root. Romans 11 is clear.

I notice on this board a lot of Judaizers. Are you all so hard up for supremacy that you pander to Jews as if that makes you what? More " Jewish" or more " Christian"? You do know what Luther called the " Jews" and what he wanted done to them for rejecting him?
People are always so needy for scooby snacks instead giving glory to Christ. People like you glorify the idea of " Jewishness" rather than faith in Christ. You do tricks for biscuits instead of worshipping Christ by bringing Him to all.

You demand obedience to Jewish traditions not Christ because you try to make lap dogs like yourselves out of all gentiles instead of brothers. Then have the nerve to think you are any different than the Roman church you hate. You know not what Peter said " I now know God shows no favoritism but welcomes all men of all nations who believe in Him". Now go run and get your scooby snack and I'll go build my talents.

 

[Shulammite]

That's one thing, but I thought the current issue was whether the Gentiles were considered 'spiritual' Jews.

I'm just curious is Yeshua Jewish yes or no?

 

[prism]

Lastly, what do you consider yourself as in the scheme of the New Covenant?

A sinner saved by grace.

 

[Shulammite]

A sinner saved by grace.

Whose Grace? Who is your Savior?

 

[grace2]

That's one thing, but I thought the current issue was whether the Gentiles were considered 'spiritual' Jews.

It is talking about God's people or Jesus' followers.

If you are a faithful servant of Jesus, you are a spiritual Jew, whether a gentile or Jew.

Even if you are born a Jew, if you are not faithful, Jesus does not consider you a spiritual Jew.

We will not enter God's kingdom if we are not spiritual Jews.

 

[Shulammite]

Lastly, Yeshua ha Mashiach does one better not only are the traversed gentile -Hebrews, He calls them His Beloved! That is a beautiful honor. The Judas' can go take a walk and find a dead fruitless tree to hang from. Chew on the spiritual meaning of that. The Judaizers spill their guts out for fake Jews. They hate Christ and His Beloved. The gentile is home in their God, the beautiful Messiah and the Beloved is His bride they are a Shulammite to the Elect Jew. No peace will come to Israel until the (Day) you have no clue and the Shulammite will bring her peace in Christ. She is Shulam to the Shalom. I can't wait! There will be one united House and all the dividers and peace haters will not be the last ones standing! Come Lord Jesus come quickly!

 

[Shulammite]

Can't wait for one Church, One people in One God. No race hating, race bating no distinctions, purity, just LOVE. It's coming! Ava Maria mother of Christ show unto us the Blessed Fruit of your Womb. And Wisdom is justfied by her Children. Familigia! All the house, loved, honored and blessed, no exclusionary terms, building up one another each member at a time showing no partiality. Loving one another AS the Lord has loved each us from His mother to all of us. No exclusionary types need apply.

 

[prism]

If you are a faithful servant of Jesus, you are a spiritual Jew, whether a gentile or Jew.

Where can I find that concept in Scripture? (We still hold to Scripture, don't we?)

Even if you are born a Jew, if you are not faithful, Jesus does not consider you a spiritual Jew.

Correct, that would be a Jew under Divine wrath.

We will not enter God's kingdom if we are not spiritual Jews.

No where in Scripture, do I find such a statement, rather...

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3 KJV