The Apostles Creed Missing Ingredient?

[Arch Stanton]

It's self defeating to use Scripture (1Tim 3:15) to downgrade Scripture. Unless you can stick to the OP, I'm done conversing with you.

My answer to your question in post #1... the Church is the foundation and it is in the Creed.

 

[donadams]

The apostles creed is not the summary of scripture but the doctrine of the apostles!

The doctrine the apostles received from Christ! Acts 2:42 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

The apostles are also God breathed! Jn 20:21

 

[Runningman]

The Apostles Creed is a fine summary of the basics of our faith.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I has a few errors unfortunately.

Jesus isn't God's only Son as there are many sons of God, but Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

While it's true rose from the dead, the apostles creed says he "rose again" which would seem to say this is at least the second time Jesus was resurrected. So that's an error. The language would indicate that Jesus rose from the dead by his own power which is another error.

While it's true he ascended to heaven, that suggests he did so by his own power, but the Bible says he was taken to heaven.

So from my perspective I think the apostles creed is a good start, but it could use an update.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

The main problem I see with the Creed is that it leaves out a statement concerning the very foundation upon which the Creed is based on...the Scriptures themselves! Thoughts?

It's important that the writer did not capitalize the word catholic. Most people will conflated this with proper Catholicism, but the word catholic actually literally means world-wide, universal, or all inclusive which means to say the church is supposed to be for the world.

 

[prism]

The apostles creed is not the summary of scripture but the doctrine of the apostles!

The doctrine the apostles received from Christ! Acts 2:42 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

The apostles are also God breathed! Jn 20:21

What about the fact that the they leave out the very foundation upon which the Creed is based on...the Scriptures themselves?

 

[prism]

I has a few errors unfortunately.

Jesus isn't God's only Son as there are many sons of God, but Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

While it's true rose from the dead, the apostles creed says he "rose again" which would seem to say this is at least the second time Jesus was resurrected. So that's an error. The language would indicate that Jesus rose from the dead by his own power which is another error.

While it's true he ascended to heaven, that suggests he did so by his own power, but the Bible says he was taken to heaven.

So from my perspective I think the apostles creed is a good start, but it could use an update.

It's important that the writer did not capitalize the word catholic. Most people will conflated this with proper Catholicism, but the word catholic actually literally means world-wide, universal, or all inclusive which means to say the church is supposed to be for the world.

What about the fact that the they leave out the very foundation upon which the Creed is based on...the Scriptures themselves?

 

[Runningman]

What about the fact that the they leave out the very foundation upon which the Creed is based on...the Scriptures themselves?

That's another issue with the creed for sure. It's pretty common for Christians to believe in creeds yet reject scripture nowadays.

 

[donadams]

What about the fact that the they leave out the very foundation upon which the Creed is based on...the Scriptures themselves?

They didn’t cos it’s not the foundation!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

He founded a church, the “household of faith” not a publishing house!

 

[prism]

That's another issue with the creed for sure. It's pretty common for Christians to believe in creeds yet reject scripture nowadays.

It's also common for Christians to outright reject creeds without checking them against Scripture

 

[prism]

They didn’t cos it’s not the foundation!

Yet Rome uses the Scriptures to justify it's existence (1Tim 3:15), even saying 'they gave us the Scriptures'.
If the Roman Church was from the beginning and they 'allegedly' gave us the Scriptures, you'd think they would at least include that latter 'fact' into the Creed.

 

[Runningman]

It's also common for Christians to outright reject creeds without checking them against Scripture

And common for them, once they find they are in error, to keep following them. I have not met a single Christian in a Bible discussion about creeds who says they have changed their mind after finding errors in a creed.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Yet Rome uses the Scriptures to justify it's existence (1Tim 3:15), even saying 'they gave us the Scriptures'.
If the Roman Church was from the beginning and they 'allegedly' gave us the Scriptures, you'd think they would at least include that latter 'fact' into the Creed.

Why? They were the only known Church at the time.... seems a bit redundant

 

[Mr GLee]

Why? They were the only known Church at the time.... seems a bit redundant

Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

Beside the Nazarene sect? Those of the law men of the legion of fathers oral traditons of dying mankind .

Paul on the #1 most wanted dead or alive was given words from our unseen head, Our Holy Father. Paul prophesied (declared) the living abiding word . it moved those under the law of he fathers that fled shot themselves in the fot

Using a Catholic heresy (opinion_) as a law of dying mankind to call the living word (sola scriptural) a heresy

Paul turned it right sight up inspired from above rather than worshiping a legion of fathers gods that some called patron saints, He worshiped the invisible head as it worked in Paul revealing the unseen things of the Holy Father


Acts 24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Is the bible the living abiding words of our Holy Father. . a heresy of men?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

yes, Nazarene/Universal/Catholic/The Way/Christian... all the same Church

 

[donadams]

Yet Rome uses the Scriptures to justify it's existence (1Tim 3:15), even saying 'they gave us the Scriptures'.
If the Roman Church was from the beginning and they 'allegedly' gave us the Scriptures, you'd think they would at least include that latter 'fact' into the Creed.

Scripture yes!
Scripture alone no!
The apostolic tradition gave us the New Testament

Thks

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

 

[prism]

Why? They were the only known Church at the time.... seems a bit redundant

Wouldn't this also be redundant?..."I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church,...

 

[Arch Stanton]

Wouldn't this also be redundant?..."I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church,...

the foundation.... the universal church

keep an eye on 1jn2:19 for 'others' at the time

 

[prism]

Scripture yes!
Scripture alone no!
The apostolic tradition gave us the New Testament

This thread is not about sola Scriptura.
The New Testament was simply a fulfillment of the Old Testament promises, both being inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

Nothing like using Scripture to make a case against sola Scriptura. lol

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

John 18:36 KJV
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Luke 17:20 KJV
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

I have noticed, Roman Catholics have a difficult time trying to stay on topic always veering to their pet topics.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Thank you @prism ... we all need

 

[Mr GLee]

Scripture yes!
Scripture alone no!
The apostolic tradition gave us the New Testament

Thks

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

The missing ingredient is the word "apostle sent messenger with beautiful feet .and not highly venerable puffed dying mankind that lord it over the faith of the non- venerable ones

Christ alone is the one good teaching master

Neither Peter or our sister blessed in the Lord Mary were crucified for the sins of the world Its spiritual unseen work not after the things of dying mankind the temporal

Believes can plant the incorruptible born again seed of the living word. And water it with water of the word the doctrines that fall like rain

I dont think venerating the flesh of dying mankind is seeking the approval of the indivisible head Our heavenly Holy Father , Holy See. Holy Papa


1 Corinthians 3:4 -8 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Does every man receive his own reward according to his own labour.? Did Perter or John. Why a Pope? Was he crucified for the sins of the world ??

I would be careful.

Hebrews3:212take care, brothers and sisters, that none of you has an evil heart of unbelief that falls away from the living God

 

[Mr GLee]

the foundation.... the universal church

keep an eye on 1jn2:19 for 'others' at the time

That should be easy to prove ? Who are the us? Does the living word of God define it?