What is Faith in the Bible?

[Mr GLee]

But what you call decree is the real issue here. You present God and His decree as the puppeteer of the universe. And that, I think, is a terrible devaluation of God's true character and being.

And personally, I am really, really happy, in fact, ecstatic to cast that low level view of God into the dumpster.

Puppeteer ???? "Let there be" and the righteous will was "God alone good" .

The gospel explosion.

Would you create a subject that opposes your will and desire to raise children together?

It's the kind of food (daily bread) that the disciples knew not of. They were trusting their own dying will in bondage to sin

John 4:33-35Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Both to reveal will and empower the Son of man Jesus to do it to the good powerful pleasure of the holy father.

 

[JIM]

Puppeteer ???? "Let there be" and the righteous will was "God alone good" .

The gospel explosion.

Would you create a subject that opposes your will and desire to raise children together?

It's the kind of food (daily bread) that the disciples knew not of. They were trusting their own dying will in bondage to sin

John 4:33-35Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Both to reveal will and empower the Son of man Jesus to do it to the good powerful pleasure of the holy father.

Once again, I have no idea about what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make.

 

[Eleanor]

That specific atom and all events concerning it, are what they are, only in him and by his decree. They have no independent existence. There is no such thing. They are not God, but they do not exist apart from God's active work.

Has nothing to do with when man thought of this. Has nothing even to do with man. It has only to do with God.

Do you actually think anything continues to exist on its own, once set in motion? Where do you think existence comes from?

In him we live and move and have our being (Ac 17:28).

 

[Mr GLee]

Once again, I have no idea about what you are trying to say or the point you are trying to make.

You are calling God a puppeteer he created a will subject to His .

"Let there be a will that delights in doing mine" and "it was good"

 

[JIM]

You are calling God a puppeteer he created a will subject to His .

I am not calling God a puppeteer. It is the determinist that makes God to be a puppeteer.

 

[makesends]

Mr GLee said:
You are calling God a puppeteer he created a will subject to His .

I am not calling God a puppeteer. It is the determinist that makes God to be a puppeteer.

You are not dealing with what @Mr GLee rightly said, in "God...create a will subject to His."

That does rightly represent the Reformed position, and it shows that claiming the Reformed position makes God a "puppeteer", is to present a strawman. "A will subject to His" is a very good way to put it.

 

[JIM]

Mr GLee said:
You are calling God a puppeteer he created a will subject to His .

You are not dealing with what @Mr GLee rightly said, in "God...create a will subject to His."

That does rightly represent the Reformed position, and it shows that claiming the Reformed position makes God a "puppeteer", is to present a strawman. "A will subject to His" is a very good way to put it.

Of course subject to His will. But the determinist view, which I do not think is necessarily the Reformed position uniformly, is necessarily one of God as the puppeteer. To the determinist, there is no such thing as God's permissive will.

 

[Eleanor]

Of course subject to His will. But the determinist view, which I do not think is necessarily theeformed position uniformly, is necessarily one of God as the puppeteer.
To the determinist, there is no such thing as God's permissive will.

Not only to the determinist, but also to Scripture (Ex 4:21, 9:16, 1 Sa 18:10, 2 Sa 24:1, 10, 1 Kgs 22:23, Job 12:16, Eze 14:9, Da 4:25).
The Bible knows only the revealed will of God, which man is commanded to obey and which he disobeys,
and the secret will of God, which God has decided it is best for us not to know (Dt 29:29), and which is always done (Is 46:10-11).
The Bible knows nothing of a God who unwillingly grants what he does not wish to happen (Ex 4:11b, Dt 32:39, 1 Sa 2:7,
1 Kgs 11:14, 23, 12:15, 24, Job 1:12, Is 45:7, 53:10, 54:16, Jer 44:27-28, Lam 3:37-38, Amos 3:6, Zec 11:16, Mt 10:29, Jn 9:2-3, Rev 17:17).
It is the ridiculous notion of man to attribute such weakness to God.

What we call God's "permissive" will is what the Bible calls God's secret will (Dt 29:29).
The difference is that God's secret will, rather than unwillingly granting what God does not wish to happen, is the sole determiner of all that happens (Is 8:10, 14:24, 46:10); man determines nothing (Da 4:25, Ps 33:9-10, Pr 16:9, 19:21, 20:24).
The relationship between the secret will of God and the revealed will of God is shown in Ex 7:1-3, where God's revealed will to Pharaoh (Ex 7:2) is not his secret will for Pharoah (Ex 7:3). That God's revealed will is disobeyed does not mean that God's secret will is not done.

 

[makesends]

course subject to His will. But the determinist view, which I do not think is necessarily the Reformed position uniformly, is necessarily one of God as the puppeteer. To the determinist, there is no such thing as God's permissive will.

There are many self-styled determinists that use the term, "God's permissive will". I don't, because I think it is too easily used to think God did not intend for everything to fall out precisely as it does, past, present and future. That God permits me to do as I choose is more than obvious. But it is not a necessary construction in order to say that we have a will, and that our choices are real, with real --even eternal-- consequences.

There is no puppetry going on. Puppets have no will. They are not even animals. Apparently you consider instinctual animals puppets.

 

[JIM]

There is no puppetry going on. Puppets have no will. They are not even animals. Apparently you consider instinctual animals puppets.

No, and nor do I think God is decreeing their every move as you apparently do.

 

[EarlyActs]

Since the Bible is the book given to Christianity, it must be a biblical definition of faith that is applied to Christianity. In fact, rather than being referred to as the Christian religion, it is often called the Christian Faith. So let's dig in.

Faith can be used as a verb or a noun. It has become a very confusing word, an elusive word, though I doubt in either the OT or NT times it was confusing or elusive at all.

In the Bible "faith" in conjunction with the things of God, is always used as a noun. Yet there are whole swaths of the Christian community that never use it as a noun, always as a verb. As a result, much heretical doctrine has invaded the church, and by teachers that ought to know better. Faith as a noun contains specific content. It is this content that defines the faith. As a verb, it can apply to anything and is generated entirely from within us. It becomes an action, in that it works upon our will. It is never outside of us. If the Bible use of "faith" is considered a verb, then it is us who use our faith to manipulate God. Faith becomes a way to gain what we desire. There is a particular sect of the Christian Faith that declares this openly. And what is termed grace in Scripture, becomes not grace. This would apply to every arena of God's relationship with humanity, not just sorteriology. It removes from theology that everything we have from God, even our life itself, is by grace. It takes away his sovereignty.

Faith as a noun, as I said, has specific content. The Christian Faith has specific doctrines carefully derived from the Bible itself, that are common across denominational lines. The Trinity; the deity of Christ; the virgin birth; the substitionary work of Christ on the cross for the forgiveness of sin; the resurrection; ascension; his certain return; the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the glorification of those who remain alive at his coming; the judgement; the future restoration of all things. There are things outside of that that Christians disagree on denominationally. The Christian Faith is encapsulated in the Apostles Creed. (Not written by the apostles but what they taught in Scripture. Our doctrinal foundation.)

So when we read "the faith of Abraham was counted to him as righteousness" faith is a noun---apart from all works.

When we read Jesus saying, "Your faith has made you well." faith is a noun---not verb as it is so often taken. If it a verb it is conjuring. (To affect or effect by or as if by magic.)

When we read "By grace you have been saved, through faith, and that is a gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast." faith is a noun. If this faith comes from inside of us, "faith" becomes a verb. As a verb, it removes grace from the sentence.

Thoughts?

Here's two thoughts: I thought the post was going to be about an implicit trust in the Bible, and that would be the English Bible. It was actually about the word 'faith.'

All that was said may hinge on the verse in that last part of Gal 2, where the noun is actually the faithfulness or reliability of the Son of God for us, not ours for him, and not the general set of beliefs about him. The grammatical case of pistis there is either dative or possessive, I don't recall.

 

[Arial]

Here's two thoughts: I thought the post was going to be about an implicit trust in the Bible, and that would be the English Bible. It was actually about the word 'faith.'

All that was said may hinge on the verse in that last part of Gal 2, where the noun is actually the faithfulness or reliability of the Son of God for us, not ours for him, and not the general set of beliefs about him. The grammatical case of pistis there is either dative or possessive, I don't recall.

My point actually was the content of the Christian Faith as to salvation. When the Bible uses the term "faith" it refers to saving faith. Not conjured or human generated faith as a power to produce the intended results. The Charismatics in particular, nearly always use it the way of the latter. When Jesus said "Your faith has made you well." he was not saying that the man's generated faith that caused him to be made whole---but his trust in Jesus being who he claimed to be. God come as Son of Man.

 

[EarlyActs]

My point actually was the content of the Christian Faith as to salvation. When the Bible uses the term "faith" it refers to saving faith. Not conjured or human generated faith as a power to produce the intended results. The Charismatics in particular, nearly always use it the way of the latter. When Jesus said "Your faith has made you well." he was not saying that the man's generated faith that caused him to be made whole---but his trust in Jesus being who he claimed to be. God come as Son of Man.

That makes the Gal 2 line all the more interesting. You've read about it, right?

 

[Arial]

That makes the Gal 2 line all the more interesting. You've read about it, right?

I have read the entire Bible a number of times.


If you mean this:

19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

My answer is still yes. And I agree that more depth is seen from what you said in post #111 with some exceptions to "not the general set of beliefs about him." Who he is is who we have faith in. The faith that is given to us, by God himself, whatever it may, or may not encompass at our beginning, large or small, doctrinally known or a seed planted in the heart that leans us into him, is what unites us with him. And it is his faithfulness in all the house of God that is our rock.

 

[makesends]

Here's two thoughts: I thought the post was going to be about an implicit trust in the Bible, and that would be the English Bible. It was actually about the word 'faith.'

All that was said may hinge on the verse in that last part of Gal 2, where the noun is actually the faithfulness or reliability of the Son of God for us, not ours for him, and not the general set of beliefs about him. The grammatical case of pistis there is either dative or possessive, I don't recall.

Haha! I'm one who tends to see as many different ways of looking at a set of words in a statement or phrase, as there are ways. I turn words around in my head and laugh (or cringe) at the results.

I saw that, too. It is ambiguous whether it is talking about trusting the Bible or about the Bible's use of the word, "faith". I as usual bit my tongue because I thought that, like happens all the time, it wasn't hard to guess what was really being asked.

 

[Mr GLee]

Not only to the determinist, but also to Scripture (Ex 4:21, 9:16, 1 Sa 18:10, 2 Sa 24:1, 10, 1 Kgs 22:23, Job 12:16, Eze 14:9, Da 4:25).
The Bible knows only the revealed will of God, which man is commanded to obey and which he disobeys,
and the secret will of God, which God has decided it is best for us not to know (Dt 29:29), and which is always done (Is 46:10-11).
The Bible knows nothing of a God who unwillingly grants what he does not wish to happen (Ex 4:11b, Dt 32:39, 1 Sa 2:7,
1 Kgs 11:14, 23, 12:15, 24, Job 1:12, Is 45:7, 53:10, 54:16, Jer 44:27-28, Lam 3:37-38, Amos 3:6, Zec 11:16, Mt 10:29, Jn 9:2-3, Rev 17:17).
It is the ridiculous notion of man to attribute such weakness to God.

What we call God's "permissive" will is what the Bible calls God's secret will (Dt 29:29).
The difference is that God's secret will, rather than unwillingly granting what God does not wish to happen, is the sole determiner of all that happens (Is 8:10, 14:24, 46:10); man determines nothing (Da 4:25, Ps 33:9-10, Pr 16:9, 19:21, 20:24).
The relationship between the secret will of God and the revealed will of God is shown in Ex 7:1-3, where God's revealed will to Pharaoh (Ex 7:2) is not his secret will for Pharoah (Ex 7:3). That God's revealed will is disobeyed does not mean that God's secret will is not done.

What is a determinist?

Is Christ one ?

 

[Mr GLee]

Faith I AM power

Remember Satan is not subject to faith the power of Christ's labor of love

The "let there be a good living word.

Lucifer is blind and deaf to the unseen eternal things of Christ .

When tempting the Son of man Jesus saying if you are the son of God turn rocks??? One big guessing game to him. Murder them all.

Depending how one looks the word faith. Satan would have doubt as being the opposite of faith (Poewr) . Using doubt day and night as the accuser of Christian.

Doubt which everyone does when deciding between two opinions

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

Doubting Thomas wavering doubt was lovingly commanded by the Father who gave words to his apostle prophet Jesus the Son of man commanding Thomas to have faith (power) Then the confession of the mighty faith that worked with in

John 20:26-28And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Many turn that parable upside down teaching doubt is the opposite of faith taking away its let there be power.

One group had the priest Padre Pio pour acid on his hand deceiving a multitude of faithless oubters

"Let there be" Faith I AM power

Faith according to His written understnding

 

[Eleanor]

What is a determinist?

I give up. . .is that word in the Bible somewhere?

Is Christ one ?

Ya' got me. . .

 

[fastfredy0]

What is a determinist?

Determinism is a consistent application of divine sovereignty over everything. It is a denial of any form of dualism (good and evil are separate entities) or deism (the universe is self-sustained). Determinism affirms that God controls everything about everything that is anything, including every aspect of every detail of every human decision and action in such a way that man has no freedom in any meaningful or relevant sense. This position holds that there is no such thing as a "passive" or a "permissive" decree (compatibilism) with God, that it is unbiblical and impossible for a divine decree to be "passive" or "permissive."
Johnathan Edwards argued that since the principle of causality demands that all actions are caused, then it is irrational to claim that things arise without a cause. For Edwards a self-caused action is impossible, since a cause is prior to an effect, and one cannot be prior to himself. Therefore, all actions are ultimately caused by a First Cause (God). "Free choice" is doing what one desires, but God gives the desires or affections that control action. Hence, all human actions ultimately are determined by God.
Author Unknown
Aside: I am a Hard Determinist

 

[Eleanor]

That makes the Gal 2 line all the more interesting. You've read about it, right?

Any reason why you don't state the line?