My statement of Faith using the forum's statement of Faith to show that I basically have the same believer, some with only minor adjustments

[Arial]

The diabolical Trinity teaches that Jesus is God

This is a Christian forum. You are allowed to disagree with Christian doctrines, ask questions about it, flesh out your objections with exegesis of the scriptures you use, respond to the content of rebuttals to your work in this, (as opposed to just repeating yourself); but you are not allowed to ridicule them and use such hate speech against it as the above.

 

[Arial]

You don't want to get me started on Trinity - I would eventually get banned.

If you disregard the rules, that is certainly a possibility.

 

[Muckah]

KJV translators were notorious for adding and removing words and entire text. John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

In John 14:26, the word HE is improperly translated. The Textus Receptus says - THAT ONE' or THE SAME.

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, (THAT ONE) the Spirit of truth, is come, HE/IT will guide you into all truth: for HE/IT shall not speak of himself/ITSELF; but whatsoever he/IT shall hear, that shall he speak: and he/ITSELF will shew you things to come.

Here the Textus Receptus uses the wording THAT ONE - one time in John 16:13, and TWICE as IT, and once as ITSELF!

{{\field{\*\fldinst{HYPERLINK https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh16.pdf }}{\fldrslt{https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh16.pdf\ul0\cf0}}}}\f0\fs22\par

However, the KJV translators did get Romans 8:26 correct!

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit ITSELF maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.\par

The KJV TRANSLATORS clearly injected their 'trinitarian slant' into this and so have several other translations where TRINITARIANS were the dominant translators. Here in John 16:13 they've changed the word IT into HE and the word ITSELF into HIMSELF.

The KJV perverts these passages by adding the word HE. The correct rendering of the word he in John 14:26 is either THAT ONE or THE SAME. The Holy Spirit is nowhere designated with personhood. So personal pronouns should not be substituted for it.

In some passages, the King James translators did use the proper neuter pronouns. For example, Romans 8:16 says, "The Spirit itself [not himself] beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." Similarly, Romans 8:26 says "the Spirit itself [again, not himself] maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." In these cases the translators correctly used neuter pronouns because the Greek word pneuma, translated "Spirit," is neuter in gender.

Another example is Matthew 10:20, where Jesus says: "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which [not who] speaketh in you." Another is 1 Peter 1:11, which refers to "the Spirit of Christ which [again, not who] was in them." The King James Version translators did use the proper neuter pronouns in these verses.

 

[Muckah]

This is a Christian forum. You are allowed to disagree with Christian doctrines, ask questions about it, flesh out your objections with exegesis of the scriptures you use, respond to the content of rebuttals to your work in this, (as opposed to just repeating yourself); but you are not allowed to ridicule them and use such hate speech against it as the above.

I called a doctrine diabolical. One of your members said I wasn't a Christian because I reject Trinity. That's passing judgment on an individual over doctrine. Do you happen to see a major difference here?

Enough said.

 

[Arial]

Not true. Trinity teaches many things that just do not add up. The Trinity triangle is an abhorrent depiction of Jesus and God.

The contradictions are many and that's why people reject it.

Those who reject it do so because of this:

1 Cor 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

We find who the natural man is in Eph 2:1-10 where Paul is writing to those who have been made alive--- believers, comparing what they are now to what they used to be.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the Spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience---among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy , because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ---by grace you have been saved---and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[Arial]

I called a doctrine diabolical. One of your members said I wasn't a Christian because I reject Trinity. That's passing judgment on an individual over doctrine. Do you happen to see a major difference here?

Enough said.

Which you cannot do as I said. There is no need to call it diabolical as it is just your opinion.


3.2. Avoid promoting heretical views (e.g., denying core Christian doctrines like the Trinity). These forums uphold essential Christian beliefs, including the deity of Christ, salvation by grace through faith, and the authority of Scripture. While discussions on various theological perspectives are welcome, any post challenging core Christian doctrines must include biblical and expositional support. Additionally, those presenting opposing views must substantively engage with rebuttals rather than merely repeating assertions. Posts failing to meet this standard may be removed.

To say someone is not a Christian because they do not believe in the Trinity, is not passing judgment, it is stating fact. The Christian religion has core doctrines. The Trintiy is one of them.

 

[Muckah]

Those who reject it do so because of this:

1 Cor 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

We find who the natural man is in Eph 2:1-10 where Paul is writing to those who have been made alive--- believers, comparing what they are now to what they used to be.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the Spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience---among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy , because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ---by grace you have been saved---and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

I don't believe you. You're doing nothing but the same old same old baloney of passing judgment.

The Holy Spirit is the power of God. Consider how nonsensical this appears when one believes in trinity.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

My bible says Jesus' ministry began "in the power of the Spirit."

In Luke 1:35 the Holy Spirit is identified as "the power of the Highest."

Speaking of the Holy Spirit, which would be given to His followers after His death, Jesus told them, "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you..." (Acts 1:8).

The Holy Spirit is the power of God. Consider how nonsensical this appears when one believes in trinity.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

My bible says Jesus' ministry began "in the power of the Spirit."

In Luke 1:35 the Holy Spirit is identified as "the power of the Highest."

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Other verses...
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.\par

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

If you would do a little footwork you would also see that the word HE was added by translators. The interlinear words it like this, "it-shall-be-guiding" - That's correct - IT! You can't dispute it. The KJV adds and removes more than you think.

Whenever the power of the holy is present, a divine being angel is also often present to administer this POWER.

Other verses...
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.\par

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

If you would do a little footwork you would also see that the word HE was added by translators. The interlinear words it like this, "it-shall-be-guiding" - That's correct - IT! You can't dispute it. The KJV adds and removes more than you think.

Whenever the power of the holy is present, a divine being angel is also often present to administer this POWER.

 

[Arial]

I don't believe you. You're doing nothing but the same old same old baloney of passing judgment.

I didn't write the mail---I just delivered it. So, it is not a question of whether or not you believe me, but whether or not you believe the Bible. What do those passages say about those who do not and cannot understand spiritual things? That God is a triune being, is very plain and clear to those who understand what Scripture has to say about it. It may not be fully comprehended since we are of a finite mind and are finite beings who only comprehend at a finite level. We explain and define and comprehend from relating it to what can see and hear and touch and smell etc. There is nothing in our world to compare the Trinity to fully since there is no other triune being and God cannot be seen.

We understand from what he does reveal to us in his word many things that show three working as one in redemption. We see the Holy Spirit feeling, acting, doing, and referred to, as a personal being, not an impersonal force or power.

The Holy Spirit is the power of God. Consider how nonsensical this appears when one believes in trinity.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

It makes perfect sense to me. What exactly is your confusion? First of all it is our spirit that is being spoken of there, not the Holy Spirit. In all the texts presented to "prove" your case, and with no exegesis, no context, even standing utterly isolated from the fullness of Scripture as they are, I find nothing in there that is nonsensical if the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. They are just "proof texts" and that they are used to prove what cannot be proved (because it isn't true, therefore the Bible if used as a whole in its consistency in teaching will disprove the claim." Just words without understanding.

 

[Muckah]

I didn't write the mail---I just delivered it. So, it is not a question of whether or not you believe me, but whether or not you believe the Bible. What do those passages say about those who do not and cannot understand spiritual things? That God is a triune being, is very plain and clear to those who understand what Scripture has to say about it. It may not be fully comprehended since we are of a finite mind and are finite beings who only comprehend at a finite level. We explain and define and comprehend from relating it to what can see and hear and touch and smell etc. There is nothing in our world to compare the Trinity to fully since there is no other triune being and God cannot be seen.

We understand from what he does reveal to us in his word many things that show three working as one in redemption. We see the Holy Spirit feeling, acting, doing, and referred to, as a personal being, not an impersonal force or power.

It makes perfect sense to me. What exactly is your confusion? First of all it is our spirit that is being spoken of there, not the Holy Spirit. In all the texts presented to "prove" your case, and with no exegesis, no context, even standing utterly isolated from the fullness of Scripture as they are, I find nothing in there that is nonsensical if the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. They are just "proof texts" and that they are used to prove what cannot be proved (because it isn't true, therefore the Bible if used as a whole in its consistency in teaching will disprove the claim." Just words without understanding.

You provide no rebuttal whatsoever {Edit by admin for violation of rule #2.2}You can deny it all you want but your enlightenment comes from Rome, a sect of Christianity many of you call the harlot and whore of Babylon.

I agree that there's a distinction between the holy spirit and the spirit of God.

This is the crux of the matter...
{The material following the above statement was deleted by admin for containing much objectionable material against forum rules. It was posted in a quote box with its origin and source not given. Since it was in a quote box, it cannot be requoted and the content addressed. }

 

[Fred]

Jesus is not forbidding prayer directed at other persons of the Trinity,​

Fully agree.

Brilliant!

Thank you.

 

[Arial]

You provide no rebuttal whatsoever

I quite clearly provided a rebuttal. You didn't deal with it but that is not the same thing as not having done so.

This is the crux of the matter...

Rather than deal with what you say is the crux of the matter here, I will go to the actual post and deal with it there. At first glance it appears it may need some editing for rules violations anyway.

I assumed that last quote was a quote from one of your posts, and I find that it is not. In a quote box its contents cannot be addressed.