Pastor Steven Anderson is a hypocrite ...

[Ladodgers6]

Deleted by Admin.

I am sorry you feel that way. Well, have a great day.

 

[Ladodgers6]

You know I am telling the Truth if you have been reading the Bible.

I am convinced that most "Jesus is God" believers are not getting the ideas from the Bible, but have been learning what their churches are teaching.

Thanks for being respectful. That's great, Jesus is God incarnate. I'll share more Scripture with you.

Par ▾

The Supremacy of God’s Son​

1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.​

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”​

 

[grace2]

Thanks for being respectful. That's great, Jesus is God incarnate. I'll share more Scripture with you.

Par ▾

The Supremacy of God’s Son​

1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.​

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”​

This is very much debatable becasue Jesus makes it clear that His Father is God.

Jesus does not contradict Himself.

Are you suggesting Jesus lied?

 

[Ladodgers6]

This is very much debatable becasue Jesus makes it clear that His Father is God.

Jesus does not contradict Himself.

Are you suggesting Jesus lied?

Jesus is God incarnate. As the Scripture that I have provided reveals that. And yes, his Father is God as well. Jesus is the only-begotten Son of the Father. Will you explain the passages I quoted from Hebrews 1:1-9.

8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever

 

[grace2]

Jesus is God incarnate. As the Scripture that I have provided reveals that. And yes, his Father is God as well. Jesus is the only-begotten Son of the Father. Will you explain the passages I quoted from Hebrews 1:1-9.

8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever

I just told you this verse is not reliable because Jesus says His Father is God.

Jesus never called Himself "God".

I ask you again, Jesus lied?

 

[Arial]

I just told you this verse is not reliable because Jesus says His Father is God.

Jesus never called Himself "God".

I ask you again, Jesus lied?

If any verse is considered to be unreliable, then you can't rely on any of it. It becomes a matter of one choosing what they like and disregarding everything they disagree with. It is neither love for God or Jesus but a self serving attempt to avoid hell. Getting salvation by one's righteousness iow. Earning it. Bye, bye grace of God.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I just told you this verse is not reliable because Jesus says His Father is God.

Jesus never called Himself "God".

I ask you again, Jesus lied?

Jesus didn't lie. What you are describing is the two members of the God head. Jesus said to the crowd His Father is God and that the Father is in him and he is in the Father, right? And the Sanhedrin picked up stone to kill him, this is correct. So the Sanhedrin knew exactly what Jesus was saying. This is why the Sanhedrin was hell bent on charging Jesus with Blasphemy.​

 

[grace2]

Jesus didn't lie.​

Of course, Jesus does not lie.

why do you claim Jesus is God when He says His Father is God?

 

[grace2]

If any verse is considered to be unreliable, then you can't rely on any of it.

I am Jesus' follower and you guys claim to be Jesus' centered.

If you cannot rely on what He says He cannot be Christ.

You keep dismissing Jesus' word of Jesus is the Teacher.

Is that how you treat Christ?

 

[Ladodgers6]

Of course, Jesus does not lie.

why do you claim Jesus is God when He says His Father is God?

The Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit. They work in unison in the Covenant of Redemption to save God's people from their sins. Didn't God lower himself into human form?

Phil. 2: 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.

I have been sharing my position. Can you share why you don't believe that Jesus is God. With Scripture or just provide your premise to why, thanks.

 

[grace2]

. Didn't God lower himself into human form?

He had to become human like Adam who failed to be God's servant. Nope, Jesus was never God.

It was His Father's plan for Jesus to be His Lamb to become a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

God never lowers Himself to be anything.

 

[Arial]

If you cannot rely on what He says He cannot be Christ.

You are the one who said a scripture quote couldn't be relied on. And Jesus appointed Paul as an apostle to the Gentiles to carry His truth. But you dismiss Paul as a heretic and in so doing are dismissing Christ. Jesus said He was Son of God. That makes God His Father. And if Jesus is like His Father, then He too is God. The fact that you cannot understand this does not make it untrue.

 

[grace2]

You are the one who said a scripture quote couldn't be relied on.

You guys have been abusing the Scripture and on and on trying to justify falsehood.
Edit by Admin

 

[Runningman]

Not mother as the Lord .

The doctrine of the mother must be sought out. It is used in a certain way in parables

Mother representing the bride of Christ the mother of all .

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35or whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Call no man on earth Holy Father .

Yes, on Earth Jesus said to call no one on earth your Father even after Isaiah 9:6 says that the child who was born would be called "everlasting Father" in some translations.

 

[Runningman]

Sure, John 1:1-18. Read it, take your time with it.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

The Word that became flesh and dwelt among us, who is this? Well, looks at John words carefully here, he states, "This was HE of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'" John goes on to state that this is Jesus Christ who is at the Father's side; the only God.​

According to 1 John 1:1,2 the logos is an it because the context requires it. A "that which" is an it. A "he who" is not an it. Big difference. It's also common sense that a word (logos) is not a he.

Can also compare that to John 1:1. The two uses of the term ‘God’ in John 1:1 are different in Greek. The first term is ton theon (“The God”), while the second simply says theos (“God” or “divine”).

A more accurate translation of John 1:1 is, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and what God was the word was."

Why? Because the absence of the article (“the”) before “God” in the Greek makes the word “God” qualitative, which can be understood as “the Word had the character of God,” meaning that it was godly not literally the God.

John 1:14-18 isn't about a literal pre-existent being known as the Word incarnating as a man.

What was Jesus saying or doing before he was born? Any verses?

Thank you for sharing this with me. But you are overlooking something here that you have quoted. Let me show you. Verse 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”Yes, Jesus could have called upon his Father to send twelve legions of angels, but that would not have fulfilled Scripture; basically God's Covenant of Redemption. God has a specific plan to be carried out by his Son. Let's read further, in verse 56 But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” In other words, God's Word, His Oath, His Promise, His Covenant will always come to pass/be fulfilled.​

Jesus chose to obey God regardless of what he could have done. Jesus and God don't have the same wills.

Luke 22
42“Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

Now if what you say about Jesus only being anointed doesn't carry any significance, I would suggest you go back and research this a bit further, because to the Sanhedrin that found this anointed by the Father to be blasphemous.​

Where did they find that blasphemous?

Okay, so please, explain John 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

Jesus chose to go to the cross just as anyone chooses to do anything.

You can disagree with you, but the Sanhedrin of Jesus' day were angry and trying to stone him to death, because he was making himself equal with God, He and the Father are one, or He is in the Father and the Father is in him. Or calling himself the Son of Man & Son of the Father. Jesus even says before Abraham was, I am. Now how could Jesus being born in the flesh way after Abraham died, come before Abraham. You need to really pay attention to Scripture and do not let biases or conjecture get in the way. If you want the truth then seek it.​

Following the accusations of those who had an MO of trying to kill Jesus isn't good theology. They were simply looking for a reason to kill him and using false blasphemy charges was one way to do that in their time and society. The false witnesses simply needed to agree with one another. Jesus' words to the contrary don't match the accusations against him.

Luke 22
2and the chief priests and scribes were looking for a way to put Jesus to death; for they feared the people.

Well, Runningman you have a problem. How do you handle these two passages that in your premise contradict each other. Jesus does state that he lowered himself, yes? Although, to be sure, as the only-begotten Son he was fully equal to the Father (Jn 10:30 I and the Father are one).​

That's a strawman argument. Nothing I have said contradicts anything I have said.

I have demonstrated your following of the false accusations against Jesus were directly contradicted by Jesus himself.

Doesn't Jesus state that he came not to be served but to serve? Christ is fulfilling the Scriptures and the will of his Father to save his people from their sins and from the curse of the Law. Christ is fulfilling his office as the Messiah.​

Has nothing to do with being God. Do you call God a servant?

Is Jesus is not the Messiah of Abraham? Didn't Jesus go to Abraham bosom when he descended for 3 days?​

The rich man and Lazarus story is widely regarded as a parable.

But I have been noticing that you haven't addressed any of my questions. Why does Jesus say, "before Abraham was, I am." How could this be if in your premise Christ is a mortal man and not God?​

There are no examples of a pre-existent being known as the Word of Son of God existing before Abraham. Jesus is simply referring to himself in a prophetic sense.

How could Jesus resurrect the dead, make the blind see and the lame walk, cast out demons?​

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

 

[Runningman]

Why though? Why place all this drama into somebody insignificant? Why were the Sanhedrin so hell bent on crucifying Jesus?

Any number of reasons. Jesus was outspoken against them. Publicly challenging them and embarrassing them. The people loved him and it wasn't a good look for them. It challenged their power and authority.

Doesn't Thomas say to Jesus after being resurrected from the dead, and seeing the holes in his hand and feet, say my Lord and my God?

What about it? Didn't Jesus just inform us in John 20:17 who Thomas God is? Did Jesus say the Father?

I don't want to get off track. If you want start a new thread on that, and I'll gladly engage there. Let's stick to the topic at hand.

The Purpose of This Book​

John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Correct and it says nothing about believing Jesus is God.

 

[Runningman]

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Jesus didn't literally pre-exist. He was slain one time in Israel, not one time before the world was created and then again later. What is written about Jesus before the world existed is simply prophetic. I challenge you to produce a single verse demonstrating anything Jesus said or did before his birth.

Revelation 13
8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

 

[Fred]

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

You left out Acts 10:36 for the "Lord of all" in reference to Jesus is the same "Lord of all" in reference to Jesus in Romans 10:12.

 

[Runningman]

Can you explain how Jesus performs these miracles even raising people from the dead?​

The Bible says Jesus is a man whom God anointed with power to perform the miracles he did, but the power came from God Himself, not Jesus. Now you need to explain why you believe otherwise.

Acts 2
22“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Acts 4
30Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

Acts 10
37You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

 

[Runningman]

If you do not want to converse that's fine with me. Instead of avoiding passages of Scripture why don't you guys address them head on? The truth is what I seek and I hope that is your intent too.

The Word Became Flesh​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

Please, if you wouldn't mind explain these passages for us.

@Carbon​

For starters, beginning in John 1:1, there are two uses of the word for god present in the Greek. Most English translations I've seen, for some reason, do not capture this accurately; I suspect for dogmatic purposes because a literal translation of John 1:1 is an argument against the Trinity.

The first usage of God in John 1:1 is ton Theon which literally means the God. The second usage of god is theos which means god. The reason John wrote it this way, using two different usages of god in John 1:1, is because he is showing awareness that the God and god are distinct and are not the same person.

A literal translation of John 1:1, assuming that Jesus was a pre-existent being in some form or fashion, would be that the Word was a god. If we assume Jesus is not a pre-existent being then the Word becomes a quality of God and is, therefore, godly, but nevertheless a non-person thing. Using theos to describe something or someone that is godly is a valid usage of the word theos. You can check this in 2 Cor. 1:12, 7:9-11 for some examples.

With that being said, a literal translation of John 1:1 doesn't support the idea that the definitive God is the Word, but rather a god or something godly.

So did Jesus pre-exist? Arguably, no. There are no clear examples of Jesus saying or doing anything in the Old Testament. There are no stories about what he was doing exactly before the world existed. Even under different names, there are no examples of a being called the Word who was with God in Genesis or any of the other statements about God creating. There are no stories about a "God the Son" sitting at God's right hand in the Old Testament. Jesus didn't sit down at God's right hand until after he was born, died, resurrected, and was taken to heaven as a man in Mark 16:19.

With that being said, there isn't any evidence that John's narrative, beginning in John 1:1, is literal. However, there are many examples of God using words, in creation or otherwise, as a thing that personification was applied to. Here are some examples of poetry in Psalms and one from Isaiah that calls God's word an it:

Psalm 33:6
By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all the stars by the breath of His mouth.

Psalm 107:20
He sent forth His word and healed them; He rescued them from the Pit.

Psalm 147:15
He sends forth His command to the earth; His word runs swiftly.

Isaiah 55:11
so My word that proceeds from My mouth
will not return to Me empty,
but it will accomplish what I please,
and it will prosper where I send it.

In addition to all of that, we can't even use the Greek definition of the Word to make a direct link to Jesus because logos in the Greek means a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.