Pastor Steven Anderson is a hypocrite ...

[Ladodgers6]

The Scriptures do not say God became flesh. I have already looked into this. It doesn't exist.

Sure here you go. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us

Obviously it doesn't mean Jesus could stop himself from dying like all other people. The Bible says he was killed. That would mean he died not by his own hand.

Take your time and do not just read Scripture, study it for a while and ask questions about it, try to learn. I am not trying to be condescending I am only trying to help you. Christ laid down his life for his sheep, this is the will of the Father. Why, because by dying in the flesh on the cross Christ kills and condemns our sins in his flesh, and pays in full the penalty of the curse of the Law on the Cross. This as I was sharing with you earlier is the Covenant of Redemption. Christ lays down his life by his own accord. What was Christ last words on the Cross?

I am curious are you saying that Christ is not the Messiah? That Christ is a mere man? Can you share with me who do you say the Son is?​

The alternative to this is that if you insist Jesus literally laid down his own life then it would follow that Jesus committed suicide, murdered himself, and died in sin. Ironically, it is the death of Jesus that is the Trinitarians worst enemy and their only possible salvation.

Acts 2
23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross.
Acts 5
30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had killed by hanging Him on a tree.

No sir, he willingly laid down his life for his sheep. He didn't kill himself. Read Isaiah 53, tell what it says, and explain to me.

The false accusation was that Jesus claimed to be God. There is no quote by Jesus that says "I am God" in the Bible. After that, he explained that those to whom the word of God come are themselves gods. That would include the Israelites and Jesus himself. He concluded by saying that he had claimed to be the Son of God. If anything, Jesus only made it theologically more difficult to deify him since the standard for what makes him the Son of God is the same standard that made all of the other Israelites gods, but not that they are themselves Lord God Almighty.

This again Runningman (Arnold) is conjecture. Here's more Scripture for you to ponder upon.

John 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.​

In Exodus 3:14, God speaks to Moses from the burning bush and says, "I am who I am." This powerful statement signifies God's eternal existence and unchanging nature. It reveal God's self-sufficiency and sovereignty, emphasizing that he is the ultimate authority.

Now let's read John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

When the Sanhedrin heard this they picked up stones to throw at him. Because this was a death sentence making oneself equal with God, basically saying they are God (Lev. 24:16).

I do not believe in trick questions or gotcha questions. I only seek the truth. You have to explain away the works of miracles he performed, including resurrecting Lazarus from the tomb. Thomas calling Jesus Lord and God. And the countless Scripture pointing to the anointed One of God called Immanuel; which means (God with us).

Are you also denying the virgin birth?

 

[CrowCross]

Because they hate Him.

Look what Jesus said after that.

Jesus says "You charge me because I say I am Son of God?

Big difference.

The name...Son of God...was a claim to being God.

 

[Runningman]

Sure here you go. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us

Can you show any examples of a literal being known as the Word in the Bible?

Take your time and do not just read Scripture, study it for a while and ask questions about it, try to learn. I am not trying to be condescending I am only trying to help you. Christ laid down his life for his sheep, this is the will of the Father. Why, because by dying in the flesh on the cross Christ kills and condemns our sins in his flesh, and pays in full the penalty of the curse of the Law on the Cross. This as I was sharing with you earlier is the Covenant of Redemption. Christ lays down his life by his own accord. What was Christ last words on the Cross?​

If you're saying a human was sacrificed then yes I agree. However, laying down his life means that he didn't have to go to the cross. Jesus laid out a different option before his crucifixion.

Matthew 26
53Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?”

See, Jesus could have fought his way out of the situation.

I am curious are you saying that Christ is not the Messiah? That Christ is a mere man? Can you share with me who do you say the Son is?​

Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah if you will, and Son of God. I don't deny that nor am I suggesting otherwise. I am saying Jesus isn't himself God. The Messiah anointing is not equal to God. The word messiah refers to an anointed one and this word is applied to others in the Bible as well.

Prophets have the messiah anointing as indicated by the Hebrew:

Psalm 105​

15“Do not touch My anointed ones!​

Do no harm to My prophets!”​

Peter also confirmed that it was the spirit of messiah in the prophets:

1 Peter 1​

11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.​

No sir, he willingly laid down his life for his sheep. He didn't kill himself. Read Isaiah 53, tell what it says, and explain to me.

Exactly. He didn't kill himself which is my point.

This again Runningman (Arnold) is conjecture. Here's more Scripture for you to ponder upon.

John 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.​

John was narrating about what they were saying of Jesus. This verse also says that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. John wasn't saying Jesus had sinned, but rather what the Jews who were trying to kill him were saying of Jesus. They were also accusing Jesus of making himself equal to God along with sinning, neither of which are true.

Jesus denied being equal to God.

John 14​

28You heard Me say, ‘I am going away, and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I. ​

In Exodus 3:14, God speaks to Moses from the burning bush and says, "I am who I am." This powerful statement signifies God's eternal existence and unchanging nature. It reveal God's self-sufficiency and sovereignty, emphasizing that he is the ultimate authority.

Now let's read John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

John 8:58,59 isn't an explicit claim to being the "I AM" in the same context as Exodus 3:14,15.

For example, what does Acts 3:13 and Exodus 3:14,15 say about who the I AM is? They both say that the I AM is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but that Jesus is his servant. Therefore, when Jesus said "I am" in John 8:58 he isn't saying he's the same person as the I AM. "I am" is simply something someone says to refer to themselves and people say it all the time, every day.

Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

Acts 3​

13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.​

​

Exodus 3​

14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”​

15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.​

When the Sanhedrin heard this they picked up stones to throw at him. Because this was a death sentence making oneself equal with God, basically saying they are God (Lev. 24:16).

John 5:18 says they were looking for a reason to kill him. He could have looked at them the wrong way and they probably would have found a charge or some way to rile up a crowd against him.

I do not believe in trick questions or gotcha questions. I only seek the truth. You have to explain away the works of miracles he performed, including resurrecting Lazarus from the tomb. Thomas calling Jesus Lord and God. And the countless Scripture pointing to the anointed One of God called Immanuel; which means (God with us).

Thomas didn't call Jesus God. The definition of a name doesn't make someone God. The miracles Jesus did, others also did.

Are you also denying the virgin birth?

Also? I haven't denied anything in the first place. Here's a question for you. Is Mary the mother of God or the mother of a human?

Luke 1​

43And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?​

 

[Runningman]

The name...Son of God...was a claim to being God.

"Son of God" doesn't mean someone is God or else the other sons of God are also God.

Luke 20
36In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.

 

[Mr GLee]

Also? I haven't denied anything in the first place. Here's a question for you. Is Mary the mother of God or the mother of a human?

Luke 143And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Not mother as the Lord .

The doctrine of the mother must be sought out. It is used in a certain way in parables

Mother representing the bride of Christ the mother of all .

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35or whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Call no man on earth Holy Father .

 

[grace2]

Also? I haven't denied anything in the first place.

This is a manipulative tactic.

That's how they make such lengthy posts one after another for simple questions.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Can you show any examples of a literal being known as the Word in the Bible?

Sure, John 1:1-18. Read it, take your time with it.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

The Word that became flesh and dwelt among us, who is this? Well, looks at John words carefully here, he states, "This was HE of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'" John goes on to state that this is Jesus Christ who is at the Father's side; the only God.​

If you're saying a human was sacrificed then yes I agree. However, laying down his life means that he didn't have to go to the cross. Jesus laid out a different option before his crucifixion.

Matthew 26
53Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?”

See, Jesus could have fought his way out of the situation.

Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah if you will, and Son of God. I don't deny that nor am I suggesting otherwise. I am saying Jesus isn't himself God. The Messiah anointing is not equal to God. The word messiah refers to an anointed one and this word is applied to others in the Bible as well.

Thank you for sharing this with me. But you are overlooking something here that you have quoted. Let me show you. Verse 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”Yes, Jesus could have called upon his Father to send twelve legions of angels, but that would not have fulfilled Scripture; basically God's Covenant of Redemption. God has a specific plan to be carried out by his Son. Let's read further, in verse 56 But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” In other words, God's Word, His Oath, His Promise, His Covenant will always come to pass/be fulfilled.

Now if what you say about Jesus only being anointed doesn't carry any significance, I would suggest you go back and research this a bit further, because to the Sanhedrin that found this anointed by the Father to be blasphemous.​

Prophets have the messiah anointing as indicated by the Hebrew:

Psalm 105​

15“Do not touch My anointed ones!​

Do no harm to My prophets!”​

Peter also confirmed that it was the spirit of messiah in the prophets:

1 Peter 1​

11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.​

Exactly. He didn't kill himself which is my point.

Okay, so please, explain John 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.”

John was narrating about what they were saying of Jesus. This verse also says that Jesus was breaking the Sabbath. John wasn't saying Jesus had sinned, but rather what the Jews who were trying to kill him were saying of Jesus. They were also accusing Jesus of making himself equal to God along with sinning, neither of which are true.

Jesus denied being equal to God.

You can disagree with you, but the Sanhedrin of Jesus' day were angry and trying to stone him to death, because he was making himself equal with God, He and the Father are one, or He is in the Father and the Father is in him. Or calling himself the Son of Man & Son of the Father. Jesus even says before Abraham was, I am. Now how could Jesus being born in the flesh way after Abraham died, come before Abraham. You need to really pay attention to Scripture and do not let biases or conjecture get in the way. If you want the truth then seek it.​

John 14​

28You heard Me say, ‘I am going away, and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I. ​

John 8:58,59 isn't an explicit claim to being the "I AM" in the same context as Exodus 3:14,15.

Well, Runningman you have a problem. How do you handle these two passages that in your premise contradict each other. Jesus does state that he lowered himself, yes? Although, to be sure, as the only-begotten Son he was fully equal to the Father (Jn 10:30 I and the Father are one).​

For example, what does Acts 3:13 and Exodus 3:14,15 say about who the I AM is? They both say that the I AM is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but that Jesus is his servant. Therefore, when Jesus said "I am" in John 8:58 he isn't saying he's the same person as the I AM. "I am" is simply something someone says to refer to themselves and people say it all the time, every day.

Doesn't Jesus state that he came not to be served but to serve? Christ is fulfilling the Scriptures and the will of his Father to save his people from their sins and from the curse of the Law. Christ is fulfilling his office as the Messiah.​

Jesus isn't the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

Acts 3​

13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.​

​

Exodus 3​

14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”​

15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.​

Is Jesus is not the Messiah of Abraham? Didn't Jesus go to Abraham bosom when he descended for 3 days? But I have been noticing that you haven't addressed any of my questions. Why does Jesus say, "before Abraham was, I am." How could this be if in your premise Christ is a mortal man and not God? How could Jesus resurrect the dead, make the blind see and the lame walk, cast out demons?​

 

[Ladodgers6]

John 5:18 says they were looking for a reason to kill him. He could have looked at them the wrong way and they probably would have found a charge or some way to rile up a crowd against him.

Why though? Why place all this drama into somebody insignificant? Why were the Sanhedrin so hell bent on crucifying Jesus?

Thomas didn't call Jesus God. The definition of a name doesn't make someone God. The miracles Jesus did, others also did.

Doesn't Thomas say to Jesus after being resurrected from the dead, and seeing the holes in his hand and feet, say my Lord and my God?

Also? I haven't denied anything in the first place. Here's a question for you. Is Mary the mother of God or the mother of a human?

Luke 1​

43And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?​

I don't want to get off track. If you want start a new thread on that, and I'll gladly engage there. Let's stick to the topic at hand.

The Purpose of This Book​

John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[grace2]

Why though? Why place all this drama into somebody insignificant?

You are the ones who spread drama with the simple teaching of Christ.

 

[Ladodgers6]

You are the ones who spread drama with the simple teaching of Christ.

Huh?

 

[Ladodgers6]

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

 

[CrowCross]

"Son of God" doesn't mean someone is God or else the other sons of God are also God.

Luke 20
36In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God.

Yup, but I believe you're kinda off topic.

And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. (Luke 1:35). The term "Son of God" when applied to Jesus has a slightly different nuance.

In fact the Jewish leaders said... 7“We have a law,” answered the Jews, “and according to that law He must die, because He declared Himself to be the Son of God.” . Yes, I too can claim to be a "son of God" but it would be entirely different than the claim of Jesus as I am a son of God through adoption...through grafting into the vine. Where as Jesus was always the eternal Son of God.

When Jesus made this factual claim Jesus was claiming to be the same nature as God...Jesus was declaring Himself to be God....The Jewish leaders took this as blasphemy and wanted to kill Jesus for claiming to be God.

 

[Arial]

Can you show any examples of a literal being known as the Word in the Bible?

There is only one and that is Jesus. That should tell you something very important. He is unique among all men and John is saying exactly what He means when He says Jesus is the Word and He was with God in the beginning, and He was God. And that you must be misinterpreting that passage. That is what it SHOULD tell you.

 

[grace2]

Huh?

so you want me to repeat your cliches?

First of all, you claim Jesus is God without a legitimate reason for it.

 

[CrowCross]

so you want me to repeat your cliches?

First of all, you claim Jesus is God without a legitimate reason for it.

The Word who was God became flesh....We call Him Jesus.

You can read about it in John 1.

 

[Ladodgers6]

so you want me to repeat your cliches?

First of all, you claim Jesus is God without a legitimate reason for it.

I know what I believe and why I believe it. Before you make assumptions about a post at least read it and try to understand it. Because I was pointing out why was the Sanhedrin trying to so hard to convict Jesus of Blasphemy. Since I am now conversing with you. Can you explain how Jesus performs these miracles even raising people from the dead?​

 

[grace2]

I know what I believe and why I believe it. Before you make assumptions about a post at least read it and try to understand it. Because I was pointing out why was the Sanhedrin trying to so hard to convict Jesus of Blasphemy. Since I am now conversing with you. Can you explain how Jesus performs these miracles even raising people from the dead?​

I will get back to your usual thing... avoiding the point I am making.

I already debunked how your reasoning is so out of context with Jesus' word.

And you are doing the same thing to @Runningman

 

[Ladodgers6]

I will get back to your usual thing... avoiding the point I am making.

I already debunked how your reasoning is so out of context with Jesus' word.

And you are doing the same thing to @Runningman

If you do not want to converse that's fine with me. Instead of avoiding passages of Scripture why don't you guys address them head on? The truth is what I seek and I hope that is your intent too.

The Word Became Flesh​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

Please, if you wouldn't mind explain these passages for us.

@Carbon​

 

[grace2]

If you do not want to converse that's fine with me.

I am pointing out your false teachings.

And there are so many.

And I am only pointing out the most essential which is salvific doctrine.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I am pointing out your false teachings.

And there are so many.

And I am only pointing out the most essential which is salvific doctrine.

Okay, let's start. Please do me a favor, let's be cordial and civil, there's no need to be mean-spirited or belittling towards each other. I believe people can have respectful conversations. I know what I believe and why I believe it. So, please share your premise with me.