Jesus was never prayed to once in the Bible

[Dave_Regenerated]

The Father is the only true God then the "Word" being God isn't a valid translation. I will admit, I am not Greek expert, but I have studied John 1:1 enough to know that the Greek doesn't actually called the Word the God.

Why I simply quoted John 17:1-3 is because the Father is the only true God then that means there can't possibly be a different God.

Actually, Jesus was never called "God" or "Father" in the Bible despite Isaiah 9:6 saying that those are things he would be "called." And even if that was what he was called, it would be in name only. Is your God God Himself or someone who is simply "called" God?

Trinitarians actually deny the Son is the Father anyway.


Jesus said the "only" true God which is important.


Do you think the Holy Spirit is a separate person in a trinity Godhead or are you saying the Father is the Holy Spirit?


The Bible plainly says Jesus is a man who was crucified. Believe it.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross.

The word "Word" (or logos) in the Greek is a masculine pronoun. Not an "it", like you claimed before.

 

[Arial]

The Father is the only true God then the "Word" being God isn't a valid translation. I will admit, I am not Greek expert, but I have studied John 1:1 enough to know that the Greek doesn't actually called the Word the God.

Why I simply quoted John 17:1-3 is because the Father is the only true God then that means there can't possibly be a different God.

There is no human creator either. Yet, Jesus is said to have created everything, just as the same thing is said of God.

And if you want to know what John meant when He used Word for the one who would come as Jesus by relating it directly and unequivocally back to Gen 1 "In the beginning was God---" do a study of that. In brief, he was countering the Greek philosophers of today (and even today) searching for what was in the beginning. Who/what was the author of all that is. Who/what was the first. And He was saying the first was God from whom all else exists. And he makes a clear distinction within God, of the Word, as coming in the flesh, to rescue those who are prisoners, who sit in darkness. And he says it is this Word, who came in the flesh, who is this Light who came into the world.

He also says this Word was with God. Now do a quick study via the internet on the multiple Greek words that are translated "with" in English, for in the Greek the various Greek words used have multiple shadings, that the English does not have. And the one John uses signifies "face to face".

Jesus is not a different God in Trinitarianism. He is God the Word come in the flesh as the Son of God, Son of man. It is in Unitarianism that Jesus becomes another God. As long as you overlay your beliefs onto Trintitarianism you are arguing a straw man, and therefore all the arguments are invalid as to disputing the Trinity.

Actually, Jesus was never called "God" or "Father" in the Bible despite Isaiah 9:6 saying that those are things he would be "called." And even if that was what he was called, it would be in name only. Is your God God Himself or someone who is simply "called" God?

Trinitarians actually deny the Son is the Father anyway.

A name in Scripture is who the person is. So this child of Isiah IS God. The Father IS God. My God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is called God because He IS God. Yes, Trinitarians deny the Son is the Father because they are making the same distinctions within the Godhead as the Bible does. The Son is the second person of the Trinity come in the flesh as Jesus. And you ignore the Matt and Luke scriptures that explain why Jesus calls God His Father.

Jesus said the "only" true God which is important.

Yes, that is important. Trinitarians do not deny there is only one true God. You make that claim ABOUT us, but it is a straw man. It doesn't really exist.

Do you think the Holy Spirit is a separate person in a trinity Godhead or are you saying the Father is the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit is a distinct person in the Trinity. That is why we see Him doing things that are distinct from the things that Jesus does, and distinct from things the Father does. The actions are distinct actions, but all are a part of the same redemption.

The Bible plainly says Jesus is a man who was crucified. Believe it.

I do believe it. Now actually address what I said, and if you are able refute it with something besides an isolated Bible quote. Exegesis iow taking the whole counsel of God into consideration when you do so that you do not produce any contradictions. No contradictions is very important. Otherwise we cannot trust the Bible at all.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross.

Absolutely. Now how do you justify your belief that He is a creature? Or that he is being called a creature here?

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Absolutely not. Ditto doesn't mean I am yielding the field.

You said:

"You are challenging scripture not me. You are making up facts that are not in the Bible. Until you can address the specific texts I have provided it is simply your own word against the word of God."​

The way the word "ditto" operates in in English is like this: it's used to indicate that something already said is applicable a second time. In this case, your words are applicable to you.

yes, so that would mean you were using the same thing again and agreeing with my statement. But you have cleared up the mistake so we can move on.

I am sorry, but seems you didn't actually read the verse you quoted. It says "he will be called..." those things and then in scripture he wasn't called those things. He denied being bother the Father and God. This verse was translated by trinitarians who don't understand it correctly.

Jesus, on earth, said to call no one on earth their Father. Explicit denial of being the Father.

Matt 23​

9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.​

and He said, "I and the father are one."

Jesus denied being God:

Luke 16​

]19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.​

​

Jesus claimed to be good. "I am the good shepherd..." This denies the efforts of those trying to tear Christ from the throne and shows their misreading of the text. Jesus was making a point to that man. If one calls Jesus Good, they are acknowledging that He is God.

Seems you don't read the context either. Look at it again. It describes a human who needed time to learn to reject evil and choose God. That isn't God because God doesn't need time to know to reject evil and choose good.

There are two points that those who cast shade on Jesus and deny his Godhood always miss. The first is that Jesus became like a man but not permanently. Heb 2:17 "For this reason, Jesus had to be made like us, his brothers and sisters, in every way" Now if Jesus was born like us in every way, he would not have needed to be made so. But it was only temporary. He returned to the Glory after His death. "Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" Luke 24:26

Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

Yes, that's the definition of the name because God was with Jesus.

No, it was not "God with Jesus it was "God with us."

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

Yes, in his incarnation. He was in every way like us. This would mean that He was God "...he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. " One isn't made in human likeness if they were human in the first place.

In a sense he did come down from heaven where he existed in God's foreknowledge.

Says the bible nowhere. It says the opposite. John 17:5, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

Please explain what you mean by this.

Some people believe that Christ was created in Mary's womb. They do not believe, as the bible indicates, that he existed with the Father before His incarnation. They believe he was created to take the fall for sin. A Whipping boy was a boy the old kings of Europe would keep in the palace so that when the king's sons misbehaved they would take the punishment. In essence, Christ was created to take the punishment for us.

Jesus didn't literally have that glory until his cross and resurrection.

Says the bible nowhere. Jesus claims the opposite. He said to His Father. "Give me the Glory I had with you..." If you understand Greek, the word for Glory relates to the shekinah glory.

The church was created through him.

No, it says the world. Don't change scripture.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Your words. If you think that God that God exists is too difficult the burden of proof is on you.

There is no proof. No proof for you and no proof for me. Even the texts we could throw at each other can be interpreted any way we want. Ultimately all truth comes from the Holy Spirit's illumination on the texts we read.

Even if one were to rise from the dead and tell you that Jesus was God, you would not believe. People with relatively low vies of Christ never seem to change their minds.

 

[grace2]

Yes, but some of the proverbial soil is more rocky than others. We can plow a stony field all day but it requires more work. I have had better luck with people who aren't on forums. People on bible discussion forums tend to be hardened to a point beyond hearing. The predisposition is often to debate, not grow and learn.

God bless and keep going that extra mile!

I don't believe any non-trins persuade trins.

Neither of us is budgeing.

Nonetheless, the Truth needs to be told to the world.

God and Jesus are watching how we are loyal to Them spreading the Truth.

It does not matter if the enemies are listening or not.

Christian God is not a triune God.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

I don't believe any non-trins persuade trins.

Neither of us is budgeing.

Nonetheless, the Truth needs to be told to the world.

Yes, it does. The teaching that Christ was not God defaces the cross and makes it a mockery. That is not to say that those who mistakenly espouse it are guilty of such for God winked at it in the times of their ignorance. To lay out the wreckage of grace that this doctrine causes is for another thread but suffice it to say, it turns God into a ruthless being who crated his own blood sacrifice to exercise his anger on and that somehow paid for all of this sin in the universe.

God and Jesus are watching how we are loyal to Them spreading the Truth.

It does not matter if the enemies are listening or not.

Christian God is not a triune God.

Indeed He is praise the Lord. Sin dumped us into an infinite punishment that only an infinite sacrifice could save us from.

 

[Runningman]

The word "Word" (or logos) in the Greek is a masculine pronoun. Not an "it", like you claimed before.

According to 1 John 1:1,2 the logos is an it because the context requires it. A "that which" is an it. A "he who" is not an it. Big difference. It's also common sense that a word (logos) is not a he.

Can also compare that to John 1:1. You don't need to be a Greek expert as there aren't any on forums anyway, only honesty is required. The two uses of the term ‘God’ in John 1:1 are different in Greek. The first term is ton theon (“The God”), while the second simply says theos (“God” or “divine”).

A more accurate translation of John 1:1 is, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and what God was the word was."

Why? Because the absence of the article (“the”) before “God” in the Greek makes the word “God” qualitative, which can be understood as “the Word had the character of God,” meaning that it was godly not literally the God.

 

[Runningman]

There is no human creator either. Yet, Jesus is said to have created everything, just as the same thing is said of God.

There is nothing in the Old of New Testament about Jesus creating anything. Jesus is a man through whom God created. There is also a context to which it applies and it's to the church. Some of the best examples are Hebrews 1:1,2, Colossians 1:15-20, and 1 John 1:1,2

And if you want to know what John meant when He used Word for the one who would come as Jesus by relating it directly and unequivocally back to Gen 1 "In the beginning was God---" do a study of that. In brief, he was countering the Greek philosophers of today (and even today) searching for what was in the beginning. Who/what was the author of all that is. Who/what was the first. And He was saying the first was God from whom all else exists. And he makes a clear distinction within God, of the Word, as coming in the flesh, to rescue those who are prisoners, who sit in darkness. And he says it is this Word, who came in the flesh, who is this Light who came into the world.

He also says this Word was with God. Now do a quick study via the internet on the multiple Greek words that are translated "with" in English, for in the Greek the various Greek words used have multiple shadings, that the English does not have. And the one John uses signifies "face to face".

I don't want to be redundant because others are talking about this same topic, but a word (logos) is not literally a person. In the Bible, sometimes the writers write poetically because it goes without saying that words from God's mouth are not literally a person anymore than words from yours or my mouth are a he or she.

This isn't unprecedented. For example, if we are to follow your literal interpretation of John 1:1-14 then to be consistent then, according to Proverbs 9:1 Wisdom is a literal woman and the church is a literal female bride in Ephesians 5:25.

This is why wisdom, balance, and measure are required when interpreting the Bible. More importantly, study is required so that these sorts of mistakes are not made.

One of the tell-tale signs that an interpretation is false is that it's contradicted by other parts of the Bible. For examples, in 1 John 1:1,2 the logos is an it. In Revelation 1:2, Jesus Christ is not the logos "the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ." The same situation in Revelation 20:4 appears, "their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God..."

You're getting the picture.

Jesus is not a different God in Trinitarianism. He is God the Word come in the flesh as the Son of God, Son of man. It is in Unitarianism that Jesus becomes another God. As long as you overlay your beliefs onto Trintitarianism you are arguing a straw man, and therefore all the arguments are invalid as to disputing the Trinity.

Jesus is not another God in Unitarianism. In Unitarianism Jesus is a man whom God created. In Unitarianism, the only God is the Father, YHWH, as the entire Old Testament says and John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10, 1 John 5:20, and many other examples say. Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah.

A name in Scripture is who the person is. So this child of Isiah IS God. The Father IS God. My God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is called God because He IS God. Yes, Trinitarians deny the Son is the Father because they are making the same distinctions within the Godhead as the Bible does. The Son is the second person of the Trinity come in the flesh as Jesus. And you ignore the Matt and Luke scriptures that explain why Jesus calls God His Father.

Jesus was never called the names from Isaiah 9:6. While Trinitarians do feel that Jesus is God, they also disagree that Jesus is the Father. The verse isn't translated correctly. Otherwise Isaiah's prophecy failed.

There are also numerous examples of Jesus not sharing titles with God. For example, Jesus is demonstrably not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob nor is he remembered that way. In effect, Jesus is not YHWH, not the I AM, and therefore isn't God.

Compare Acts 3 to Exodus 3 and see that the servant Jesus is not God.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus.

Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

Yes, that is important. Trinitarians do not deny there is only one true God. You make that claim ABOUT us, but it is a straw man. It doesn't really exist.

No one outside of Trinitarianism agrees with you or believes that. You're saying that God is numerous different person who are not more than one God. It fails to mesh coherently with reason or logic. I have been in enough of these conversations to know that even Trinitarians who are pressed long enough will eventually say that the Trinity is an "incomprehensible mystery."

In that case, Trinitarians rely on an incomprehensible mystery to understand God rather than scripture. That would explain why the Trinity doctrine is neither described, explicitly stated, or explained in scripture. The only place it exists is in creeds written by someone who decided that's what he wanted to believe the Bible says. Not only that, Trinitarianism is contradicted aggressively by God, Jesus, and the disciples throughout the Bible.

The Holy Spirit is a distinct person in the Trinity. That is why we see Him doing things that are distinct from the things that Jesus does, and distinct from things the Father does. The actions are distinct actions, but all are a part of the same redemption.

The Holy Spirit is not a distinct person. Rather, the only true God is the Father. God is holy and God is Spirit. Therefore God is Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is just another name for God, not a different person. Hence the Holy Spirit is never introduced as a different person talking to the Father or Son throughout the Bible. I would also note that the Son is not the Holy Spirit therefore the Son isn't God. Also, the Son ruled out the possibility of the Holy Spirit being someone else who is a member of the Trinity's Godhead.

The Holy Spirit isn't a different person in the Trinity because Jesus ruled that out as a possibility:

Matt 11​

27All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.​

Jesus isn't the Holy Spirit:

Matt 12​

32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come.​

​

I do believe it. Now actually address what I said, and if you are able refute it with something besides an isolated Bible quote. Exegesis iow taking the whole counsel of God into consideration when you do so that you do not produce any contradictions. No contradictions is very important. Otherwise we cannot trust the Bible at all.

Done above.

Absolutely. Now how do you justify your belief that He is a creature? Or that he is being called a creature here?

Jesus is a human. God created humans. Jesus is created. + Humans are made of matter. God created matter. Jesus is created. =
Jesus isn't God.

Do you deny this?

 

[Runningman]

yes, so that would mean you were using the same thing again and agreeing with my statement. But you have cleared up the mistake so we can move on.

Ditto means what I just told you it means.

and He said, "I and the father are one."

Not a point. He also said the disciples are one with God.

John 17​

21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.​

Jesus claimed to be good. "I am the good shepherd..." This denies the efforts of those trying to tear Christ from the throne and shows their misreading of the text. Jesus was making a point to that man. If one calls Jesus Good, they are acknowledging that He is God.

Only God is inherently good. Only God is light and in Him is not darkness at all. Having something "good" about someone doesn't follow that they are inherently and perfectly good in the same sense God is. There are also "good and faithful servants" and "evil people who know how to give good gifts" in the Bible.

Jesus isn't God because Jesus is able to be tempted in literally all ways a human is. On the other hand, God cannot be tempted with evil. See the difference? Is being susceptible to the temptation to sin, like Jesus is, a darkness? That means Jesus isn't God. He denied being God.

There are two points that those who cast shade on Jesus and deny his Godhood always miss. The first is that Jesus became like a man but not permanently. Heb 2:17 "For this reason, Jesus had to be made like us, his brothers and sisters, in every way" Now if Jesus was born like us in every way, he would not have needed to be made so. But it was only temporary. He returned to the Glory after His death. "Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" Luke 24:26

Decades after Jesus died, was resurrected by God, and taken to heaven they kept calling him a man. Do you call God a man?

1 Timothy is estimated to have been written around 64-65 AD and Jesus was most likely crucified in 33 AD. Paul called Jesus a man some 30 years after he was already taken to heaven. Furthermore, Paul clearly made a distinction between God and Jesus.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

No, it was not "God with Jesus it was "God with us."

God was with Jesus and then in effect God was with the people Jesus was with. That's the sense "God is with us." It doesn't mean Jesus is God.

Yes, in his incarnation. He was in every way like us. This would mean that He was God "...he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. " One isn't made in human likeness if they were human in the first place.

That doesn't follow. I think you are most likely paraphrasing from Philippians 2. Begin with verse 5 where Paul told the Philippians to have the same mind as Jesus Christ. What follows from there is a description of the mind of Jesus. In effect, Paul was telling the Philippians to believe they are made in human likeness. It's a redundant way of saying Jesus is a human, not God.

Keep reading to Philippians 2:11. The only one mentioned as God in this entire context is the Father.

Says the bible nowhere. It says the opposite. John 17:5, "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

We don't start at the end and work backwards. That's called putting the cart in front of the horse. Begin with John 17:1-3 where Jesus explicitly and undeniably said the only true God is the Father.

Some people believe that Christ was created in Mary's womb. They do not believe, as the bible indicates, that he existed with the Father before His incarnation. They believe he was created to take the fall for sin. A Whipping boy was a boy the old kings of Europe would keep in the palace so that when the king's sons misbehaved they would take the punishment. In essence, Christ was created to take the punishment for us.

In what sense do you feel Jesus existed with the Father? By all accounts, Jesus pre-existed in the foreknowledge and pre-destination of God's logos.

Says the bible nowhere. Jesus claims the opposite. He said to His Father. "Give me the Glory I had with you..." If you understand Greek, the word for Glory relates to the shekinah glory.

Study more. The Bible says of Jesus in Revelation 13:8 "...the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world."

Jesus wasn't literally slain before the creation of the world. He was slain one time on a cross in Israel some 2,000 years ago or so.

He said or did nothing in the Old Testament.

You don't have any scripture about Jesus pre-existing.

No, it says the world. Don't change scripture.

John 1 doesn't say the world was created through Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

There is no proof. No proof for you and no proof for me. Even the texts we could throw at each other can be interpreted any way we want. Ultimately all truth comes from the Holy Spirit's illumination on the texts we read.

Even if one were to rise from the dead and tell you that Jesus was God, you would not believe. People with relatively low vies of Christ never seem to change their minds.

That's your opinion.

 

[Runningman]

I don't believe any non-trins persuade trins.

Neither of us is budgeing.

Nonetheless, the Truth needs to be told to the world.

God and Jesus are watching how we are loyal to Them spreading the Truth.

It does not matter if the enemies are listening or not.

Christian God is not a triune God.

Amen. The important thing is to never give up. It's necessary to give people the truth even if they reject it, though I admit it's sometimes a mercy to not give too much light to someone if they will reject it. There is actually more judgement for someone who receives to truth, looks at it, and rejects it. Nevertheless, we are not the judge, we're just the messengers. May God's will be done.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, it does. The teaching that Christ was not God defaces the cross and makes it a mockery.

You think God became sin and died on a cross?

1 Corinthians 5
21God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

That is not to say that those who mistakenly espouse it are guilty of such for God winked at it in the times of their ignorance.

Having a God aside from the Father is rank idolatry.

Jesus isn't God because the Divine Being isn't a man. A man would be something of which an image can be formed by man's skill and imagination. God cannot be imagined. Therefore Jesus isn't God.

Acts 17
29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

To lay out the wreckage of grace that this doctrine causes is for another thread but suffice it to say, it turns God into a ruthless being who crated his own blood sacrifice to exercise his anger on and that somehow paid for all of this sin in the universe.

You seem to have a very low opinion of God.

Indeed He is praise the Lord.

God is one, not three.

Mark 12
29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

Sin dumped us into an infinite punishment that only an infinite sacrifice could save us from.

That's not what the Bible says.

 

[Mr GLee]

and He said, "I and the father are one."

One in purpose .God is not a man .

Jesus claimed to be good. "I am the good shepherd..." This denies the efforts of those trying to tear Christ from the throne and shows their misreading of the text. Jesus was making a point to that man. If one calls Jesus Good, they are acknowledging that He is God.

If one bows down in worship or to venerate, puff up to dying mankind. "Jesus the Son of man" and calls him according to his dying flesh the one Good Master or Rabbi .

Then as infallibly informed we know the Son of man dying (mankind) would never stand in the place of our unseen Holy Father ,Holy See the one good teaching master as eternal God. called blaspheming our Holy Father in heaven

Jesus would never attempt. . . move over Holy Father I am in charge

Mark 10:17-18King James Version17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . not dying mankind

 

[Odë:hgöd]

~

Jesus . . . never instructed anyone to pray to himself

Somebody has probably already said this before; but I would like to be another
saying it too.

● Matt 11:28-29 . . Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will
give you rest.

● John 4:10-14 . .If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink,
you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.

● John 7:37 . . On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a
loud voice; "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink."

When Jesus says "come" he expects his audiences to reciprocate with an RSVP.

● John 5:39 . . .You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them
you possess eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me, yet you
refuse to come to me to have life.

NOTE: Prayer can be thought of as rapport; defined as a friendly relationship marked
by ready communication and mutual understanding; which is the opposite of Matt 7:22-23
wherein Jesus informs a number of super-pious individuals that he never knew them, i.e.
they failed to establish an intimate association with God's son.

 

[grace2]

NOTE: Prayer can be thought of as rapport; defined as a friendly relationship marked
by ready communication and mutual understanding; which is the opposite of Matt 7:22-23
wherein Jesus informs a number of super-pious individuals that he never knew them, i.e.
they failed to establish an intimate association with God's son.

Amen.

An intimate relationship means accepting everything God and Jesus say without making excuses.

God says to know Him means to be faithful to Him.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

One in purpose .God is not a man .

That is your interpretation. But when we examine what was said and what the reaction of the intelligentsia was, it is pretty clear what He meant. And it must be so or our salvation is empty.

If one bows down in worship or to venerate, puff up to dying mankind. "Jesus the Son of man" and calls him according to his dying flesh the one Good Master or Rabbi .

Then as infallibly informed we know the Son of man dying (mankind) would never stand in the place of our unseen Holy Father ,Holy See the one good teaching master as eternal God. called blaspheming our Holy Father in heaven

What???? The eternal 3 are one and can't stand in the place of any of the others. They are single as the correct interpretation of the word implies.

Jesus would never attempt. . . move over Holy Father I am in charge

What??? you are imagining them as separate. They are not, they are one. Who did John come to make the way straight for? If you are unsure, look up the original prophecy and you will find that it was for God.

Mark 10:17-18King James Version17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . not dying mankind

Yes, He was implying that calling Him good was calling Him God. He later referred to Himself as good, so that interpretation of the text is off the mark.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

You think God became sin and died on a cross?

1 Corinthians 5
21God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

Yes, that is why it is such wonderful love. Do you think God is so averse to getting His own hands dirty that He created a human to kill to satisfy His wrath? Of course, that would be insufficient to pay the penalty of eternal damnation for every repenting soul. Each man needs his own perfect lamb.

Having a God aside from the Father is rank idolatry.

If I have seen Jesus I have seen the Father so it follows that if I worship Jesus I worship the Father. If Jesus were not infinite you and I have no substitute for our sins.

Jesus isn't God because the Divine Being isn't a man.

Says the bible nowhere.

A man would be something of which an image can be formed by man's skill and imagination. God cannot be imagined.

Man can imagine God, it will fall short of reality just as an image of a man falls short of being a man.

Therefore Jesus isn't God.

False premises create false conclusions.

Acts 17
29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

Now if an image of God can't be formed, then how are we made in the image of God?

You seem to have a very low opinion of God.

I do not put "can't" with God. It is you who says God can't...as in God can't become a man. God can't die. God can't become sin for us.

God is one, not three.

God is one in three. This is evident even in the creation story.

Mark 12
29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

"The Father and I are one" "If you have seen me, you have seen the father" Do you not see how all of these harmonize with each other? A human is an insufficient sacrifice for the sins of many.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

That's your opinion.

Not the first part but I will grant you the second part is.

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Ditto means what I just told you it means.

Not a point. He also said the disciples are one with God.

John 17​

21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.​

This does not say that the disciples would be one with God. It says that they would be one with each other as Jesus was with God.

Only God is inherently good.

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep." (John 10:11) ~Jesus

Only God is light

“I am the Light of the World” (John 8:12) ~Jesus

 

[Arial]

There is nothing in the Old of New Testament about Jesus creating anything. Jesus is a man through whom God created. There is also a context to which it applies and it's to the church. Some of the best examples are Hebrews 1:1,2, Colossians 1:15-20, and 1 John 1:1,2

There isn't in the old because the Son had not yet come as Jesus. But the Gen account speaks of an "us" . "Let us make---". And the Holy Spirit is mentioned specifically. In the NT you have been shown scriptures that say Jesus created everything. For example, Col 1:16-17 For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities---all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. How does that possible apply to the church?

You have the audacity to quote this verse as proof, evidently simply because verse 18 says And He is the head of the body, the church. You have the audacity to speak to me of context, and then only give credence to the first half of one verse, while ignoring what came before and after! It is atrocious mishandling of the word of God. The next sentence in that same vers says He is the beginning, (echoes of John 1:1) the firstborn from the dead, (His flesh and blood body) that in everything He might be preeminent.

Heb 1:1-2 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the world. How does that apply to Jesus only creating the church? The writer is proclaiming the supremacy of Jesus over all things.

1 John 1:1-4 (which you cut off mid sentence That which was from the beginning which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life--- (here John is confirming his eyewitness to Jesus and relationship with Him) that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.

How does any of that say that Jesus only created the church? You are grasping at straws, and blinding yourself to see what is right before your eyes even in the scriptures you quote to deny the deity of Christ. Why, is my question. Why are you so invested in Jesus being but a creature?