Argument against the Doctrine of the Trinity. (And keep it clean, please.)

[miss managed]

Of you want nothing to do with Christians why do you call yourself one, and why are you on a Christian forum?

Where did you see me call myself a Christian? I have said that I don't call myself a Christian either here or to my family and friends. I call myself a believer in Jesus Christ.

I'm here because I believe most doctrines are bogus. Esp. Trinity, literal 6-day creationism, pre-trib/Dispensationalism, and Preterism, and nearly all mainstream eschatological beliefs.

 

[miss managed]

Then why come to a Christian forum?

Do you claim to be regenerated?

If not, you cannot possibly understand the things of the Spirit and are at enmity with the Living God.

Maybe it's you who doesn't understand the things of the spirit.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Maybe it's you who doesn't understand the things of the spirit.

Seriously?


From post #41...

I call myself a believer in Jesus Christ.

What is it exactly that you believe in Jesus?

 

[Arial]

Maybe it's you who doesn't understand the things of the spirit.

Could you please engage with what people post, and present legitimate arguments for your case from scripture, instead of emotional feelings of things and people?

 

[Arial]

Where did you see me call myself a Christian? I have said that I don't call myself a Christian either here or to my family and friends. I call myself a believer in Jesus Christ.

Do you think believing in Jesus will keep you out of hell, forgive your sins, reconcile you to God? And what do you mean by "believing in Jesus"? The Demons do. Buddists do, Islam does. Jews do.Probably even many atheists do. They just don't believe he is who he says he is. Son of God.
https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-biblical-meaning-of-son-of-god.2885/

 

[miss managed]

Seriously?


From post #41...


What is it exactly that you believe in Jesus?

I've answered this type of question before.

I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, his life and miracles, his trials, persecutions and crucifixion, his burial and resurrection, and his ascension to the Father. I don't have to believe in a man made Trinity that took about 250 years to develop.
The history of the doctrine is clear.

1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.
2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.
3. Several arguments continued among the Bishops - over 100 of them. They could not resolve the multiple contradictions the Trinity or 'Nature of God' presented.

Examples are - Jesus saying the Father is Greater - that he doesn't know the day or hour of his return, - or that he can do nothing on his own. They overcame those contradictions in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES which is the ultimate Trinitarian excuse for every contradiction.

Trinity is Christianity's most contentious doctrine. In my view, the concept of God is simple to understand. My experience is that the correct interpretation of anything is the most simple, logical, and least contradictory one. Both Pre-trib and Trinity are the most fabricated and contradictory doctrines in Christianity.

The facts...

1. Jesus became God in AD 325 at the council of Nicaea.

2. The holy spirit became God in AD 381 at the council of Constantinople.

151 years after Jesus became God, he acquired two natures at the Council of Chalcedon, which took place in 451 AD. This council defined the two natures of Christ as both fully divine and fully human, a doctrine known as the hypostatic union.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I've answered this type of question before.

I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, his life and miracles, his trials, persecutions and crucifixion, his burial and resurrection, and his ascension to the Father. I don't have to believe in a man made Trinity that took about 250 years to develop.
The history of the doctrine is clear.

1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.
2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.
3. Several arguments continued among the Bishops - over 100 of them. They could not resolve the multiple contradictions the Trinity or 'Nature of God' presented.

Examples are - Jesus saying the Father is Greater - that he doesn't know the day or hour of his return, - or that he can do nothing on his own. They overcame those contradictions in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES which is the ultimate Trinitarian excuse for every contradiction.

Trinity is Christianity's most contentious doctrine. In my view, the concept of God is simple to understand. My experience is that the correct interpretation of anything is the most simple, logical, and least contradictory one. Both Pre-trib and Trinity are the most fabricated and contradictory doctrines in Christianity.

The facts...

1. Jesus became God in AD 325 at the council of Nicaea.

2. The holy spirit became God in AD 381 at the council of Constantinople.

151 years after Jesus became God, he acquired two natures at the Council of Chalcedon, which took place in 451 AD. This council defined the two natures of Christ as both fully divine and fully human, a doctrine known as the hypostatic union.

I don't have to believe in a man made Trinity that took about 250 years to develop.

Actually, the Trinity is found in the word going all the way back to Genesis 1.

Because you "believe" in Jesus, does that mean you are regenerated?

If you really believed in the Lord you would believe that He is in fact God come in the flesh.

But you do not believe that, do you?

 

[Josheb]

Talk about either being in denial or simply NOT understanding what you believe in.

{Edit: violation for rules 2.1 and 3.2}

Got anything op-relevant to post?

 

[miss managed]

Actually, the Trinity is found in the word going all the way back to Genesis 1.

Because you "believe" in Jesus, does that mean you are regenerated?

If you really believed in the Lord you would believe that He is in fact God come in the flesh.

But you do not believe that, do you?

Oh I know the word 'us' proves a Trinity to you guys.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Oh I know the word 'us' proves a Trinity to you guys.

You seem to not want to answer questions, but like to point the finger.

This is not productive for anyone

I will pray for you.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[miss managed]

You seem to not want to answer questions, but like to point the finger.

This is not productive for anyone

I will pray for you.

Grace and peace to you.

If it's the questions you posted - NO I won't answer nonsensical questions.

So ask the q again and I'll answer. Just make it sensible.

 

[Arial]

I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, his life and miracles, his trials, persecutions and crucifixion, his burial and resurrection, and his ascension to the Father. I don't have to believe in a man made Trinity that took about 250 years to develop.
The history of the doctrine is clear.

The doctrine of the Trinity is in the Bible. It did not take 250 years to develop. It came out of the Bible.

John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 14. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Isa. 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be on his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isa. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,, and shall call his name Immanuel (which means 'God with us').

Phillippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of man. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death on the cross.

You confuse it being codified into tenets with being invented.

1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.

Jesus never became God. The second person of the Trinity came as Jesus the man. See above scriptures.

2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.

The Holy Spirit never became God. He always was the third person of the Trinity. Gen 1:2. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 26. And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness:

Taken with the Phillipians verse above, we see all three active at creation.

 

[David Lamb]

Sure it is...Hinduism, the Neo-Pagan faith of Wicca also has a Triple Divinity.

How Ancient Trinitarian Gods Influenced Adoption of the Trinity

Many who believe in the Trinity are surprised, perhaps shocked, to learn that the idea of divine beings existing as trinities or triads long predated Christianity. Yet, as we will see, the evidence is abundantly documented.

www.ucg.org

But the Trinity isn't a triple divinity. Trinitarians don't believe in three Gods.

 

[David Lamb]

Your reply is precisely the reason I want nothing to do with Christians. Many believe they're superior because they have the Spirit but for reason they disagree with one another on most things!

So why bother posting on this Christian forum?

As for believing they I superior, speaking for myself, I assure you that I do not believe I am superior. I believe my glorious Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, is King of kings and Lord of lords, and far superior to all mere human beings.

 

[Ritajanice]

Where did you see me call myself a Christian? I have said that I don't call myself a Christian either here or to my family and friends. I call myself a believer in Jesus Christ.

That’s interesting..I call myself Born Again...as my spirit knows that it belongs to the Spirit Of God...The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....God is a Living Spirit...how else could Spirit give birth to spirit?

So, you believe in Jesus Of the Bible....how would you know that Jesus is who the Bible says he is?....by whose testimony do we know Jesus?

No way could I know Jesus without His Living Witness,the Holy Spirit who witnesses that truth to my heart all day every day..

I'm here because I believe most doctrines are bogus. Esp. Trinity, literal 6-day creationism, pre-trib/Dispensationalism, and Preterism, and nearly all mainstream eschatological beliefs.

Most doctrines are bogus you say..but, a doctrine doesn’t birth our spirit does it...only the Living testimony of the Holy Spirit can do that, when Spirit gives birth to spirit....I became Born Again having never read a Bible...yet, I was taught all about Jesus at school...

 

[Arial]

I believe in Jesus' virgin birth, his life and miracles, his trials, persecutions and crucifixion, his burial and resurrection, and his ascension to the Father.

What do you think that accomplished?

 

[Josheb]

I believe in Jesus' virgin birth...

Do you understand scripture explicitly states Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and not the Holy Spirit plus an ovum from Mary? Do you understand prior to his appearance as a man Jesus laid aside any claim of equality with God, even though he existed in the form of God (Php. 2:6)? He did that prior to his taking on the role of the bondservant.

1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.

According to John Jesus was God at the beginning.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

.

2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.

Not according to John 14:26 in which we are told the Holy Spirit is sent by God as an advocate and teacher, and 1 Corinthians 2 when it is reported the Spirit of God comes from God searching the depths of God.

The facts...

The fact is you know some history but not whole scripture.

• Do you read scripture to say God has thoughts, emotions, volitional agency (choices), and actions of His own?
• Do you read scripture to say Jesus has thoughts, emotions, volitional agency (choices), and actions of His own?
• Do you read scripture to say the Holy Spirit has thoughts, emotions, volitional agency (choices), and actions of His own?

.

 

[Josheb]

@miss managed,

Do you believe God is love?

Let me clarify that question so there's no misunderstanding. I am not asking if God is loving. I am asking if God is love. John (1 Jn. 4:8) is making an ontological statement, a statement about God's inherent nature. Is God love and not just loving?

 

[Eleanor]

makesends said:
Thanks. Do you have a...description of the nature/being/function/etc of the Son of God and of the Spirit of God as not divinity, or do you just say that you don't know? Is it just that orthodoxy doesn't make sense on that?

There seem to me several errors here concerning what Trinitarians generally believe, but I will invite a few other members to comment—hopefully more kindly than how you have been shown so far. I'm short of time today. @Josheb , @John Bauer , @Eleanor , @Arial & @Fred

Jesus shows the following relationships:
1) The Son is subject to the Father, for the Son is sent by the Faher in the Father's name (Jn 5:23, 36, 43).
2 The Spirit is subject to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (Jn 14:26).
3) The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (Jn 15:26, 16:7, 14:26, Ac 2:33).

Jesus shows three distinct persons, and one God:
the Son doing the will of the Father, and
the Spirit doing the will of the Father and the Son,
which distinct persons in the one God we call the Trinity.