Jesus was never prayed to once in the Bible

[Runningman]

I was addressing your call for proof. Everything else in your post was not included in my premise. Asking for proof from the bible denies faith. We can look for evidence to support our conclusions but to say that one has proven something is fooling oneself.

Your words. If you think that God that God exists is too difficult the burden of proof is on you.

 

[Runningman]

You have yielded the field. Thanks

Absolutely not. Ditto doesn't mean I am yielding the field.

You said:

"You are challenging scripture not me. You are making up facts that are not in the Bible. Until you can address the specific texts I have provided it is simply your own word against the word of God."​

The way the word "ditto" operates in in English is like this: it's used to indicate that something already said is applicable a second time. In this case, your words are applicable to you.

I'm sorry. I assumed that you were familiar with the scriptural evidence. "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6

I am sorry, but seems you didn't actually read the verse you quoted. It says "he will be called..." those things and then in scripture he wasn't called those things. He denied being bother the Father and God. This verse was translated by trinitarians who don't understand it correctly.

Jesus, on earth, said to call no one on earth their Father. Explicit denial of being the Father.

Matt 23​

9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.​

Jesus denied being God:

Luke 16​

]19“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.​

​

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." Isiah 7:14.

Seems you don't read the context either. Look at it again. It describes a human who needed time to learn to reject evil and choose God. That isn't God because God doesn't need time to know to reject evil and choose good.

Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

Since I am now not sure how familiar you are with the scriptural evidence I will mention that Immanuel means God With Us. My apologies if you already knew this.

Yes, that's the definition of the name because God was with Jesus.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

So that I am not guessing are you one who also believes that Jesus did not exist before His birth on this earth?

In a sense he did come down from heaven where he existed in God's foreknowledge.

That He was created by God in Mary's womb to be the whipping boy for sin.

Please explain what you mean by this.

Or do you believe that he did share the Glory with His Father before the world was created

Jesus didn't literally have that glory until his cross and resurrection.

that all things were created through Him?

The church was created through him.

 

[Fred]

When you pray = any time you pray
This is how you should pray = the only way to pray

John 14:14 teaches prayer to the Lord Jesus.

In fact, Colossians 3:17 reads to give thanks to the Father, but look who Paul rendered thanks to in 1 Timothy 1:12.

 

[Arial]

Jesus isn't God. I won't bother quoting over 6,000 instances from the Old Testament where Jesus is demonstrably not YHWH.

John 1:2-4 He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Col 1:16 For by Him (Jesus) all things were created, both in the heavens heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities---all things have been created through Him and for Him.



Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[Runningman]

John 14:14 teaches prayer to the Lord Jesus.

In fact, Colossians 3:17 reads to give thanks to the Father, but look who Paul rendered thanks to in 1 Timothy 1:12.

Nothing in the Bible "teaches prayer to the Lord Jesus."

Did you read Matt 6:6,9? Jesus taught praying only the Father because He's God.

When you pray = any time you pray
This is how you should pray = the only way to pray

 

[Runningman]

John 1:2-4 He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

John 17
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Col 1:16 For by Him (Jesus) all things were created, both in the heavens heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities---all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Acts 4
23And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. 24And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

 

[Fred]

Nothing in the Bible "teaches prayer to the Lord Jesus."

You've been refuted many times.
Get a clue.

 

[CrowCross]

Your reading is not contextual to what Jesus says.

The reading is from the Bible...inspired by God. The inspired by God bible identifies Jesus as God in several different ways.

You have no faith in the true Jesus.

 

[CrowCross]

It depends, on whether you mean Jesus is God.

In your case, I know you mean praying to Jesus which Jesus did not instruct us to do.

So, when I pray to Jesus and get an answer.....is it really not Jesus?

When you pray to God...a God who isn't a trinity...who are you praying to? Considering your man alone non-pre-existing created Jesus had no way of having the eternal sins of the world imputed to him...how can you even be saved?

 

[CrowCross]

I said: You're avoiding the question....If I pray to Jesus am I really being deceived and praying to Satan?

You replied with...

You're avoiding Jesus' teachings.

You didn't answer the question. You're still avoiding it. If I pray to Jesus am I really being deceived and praying to Satan?

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

So, when I pray to Jesus and get an answer.....is it really not Jesus?

When you pray to God...a God who isn't a trinity...who are you praying to? Considering your man alone non-pre-existing created Jesus had no way of having the eternal sins of the world imputed to him...how can you even be saved?

I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have a couple of questions for you about prayer. Can I PM you?

 

[Runningman]

You've been refuted many times.
Get a clue.

I am telling you directly and explicitly what Jesus taught in Matt 6:6,9. You can't refute Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

I said: You're avoiding the question....If I pray to Jesus am I really being deceived and praying to Satan?

You replied with...

You didn't answer the question. You're still avoiding it. If I pray to Jesus am I really being deceived and praying to Satan?

You can theoretically pray to anyone or anything I guess, but as far as what Jesus taught he said to only pray to the Father when we pray per Matt 6:6,9. I also don't believe the Bible contradicts itself when properly understood. There shouldn't be any examples of Jesus' teachings being challenged in scripture.

As far as you being deceived and praying to Satan, it's possible you're being deceived, but I don't think you're actually praying to Satan. Why do you keep asking that? Are you looking for a specific way for me to answer it?

 

[Fred]

You can theoretically pray to anyone or anything I guess, but as far as what Jesus taught he said to only pray to the Father when we pray per Matt 6:6,9. I also don't believe the Bible contradicts itself when properly understood. There shouldn't be any examples of Jesus' teachings being challenged in scripture.

As far as you being deceived and praying to Satan, it's possible you're being deceived, but I don't think you're actually praying to Satan. Why do you keep asking that? Are you looking for a specific way for me to answer it?

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/jesus-was-never-prayed-to-once-in-the-bible.1479/page-13#post-61934

 

[CrowCross]

I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have a couple of questions for you about prayer. Can I PM you?

yes....can'tguarantee I'll have all the answers.

 

[CrowCross]

You can theoretically pray to anyone or anything I guess, but as far as what Jesus taught he said to only pray to the Father when we pray per Matt 6:6,9. I also don't believe the Bible contradicts itself when properly understood. There shouldn't be any examples of Jesus' teachings being challenged in scripture.

When you pray do you ...go into your inner room, shut your door? That was Jesus' example when He taught the disciples how to pray....but I bet you 1 million dollars you don't follw that example.....which makes you a hypocrite for not following the protocol you insist on concerning prayer.

As far as you being deceived and praying to Satan, it's possible you're being deceived, but I don't think you're actually praying to Satan. Why do you keep asking that? Are you looking for a specific way for me to answer it?

I keep asking because I and others get answers when praying to Jesus. But, you and others claim we can't pray tyo Jesus...and are instructed to pray to the "Father" only....So, if we don't follow Jesus' protocol...and we pray to Jesus, then who answered the prayers?
If you can't answer that qestion then you have no right telling me the bible teaches we pray to the "Father" only....which it doesn't.

Just for the record the Lords prayer was presented as a "model" prayer....You do know that?

Also just for the record...And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”....that's in Acts 7:5-9 if you want to read about it. This calling out was a prayer.

 

[Arial]

John 17
1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

It does you no good to ignore the scriptures that are given to you and present in their place scriptures that you are using in a way that utterly contradicts the ones given.

Here is why Jesus called God, Father. Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:30-31 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. 34-35 And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?" And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy---the Son of God.

Which of course is the fulfillment of the prophecy in Is 9:6 For to us a child is born,m to us a son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor,m Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

So, citing Jesus calling God Father is an empty defense. The Holy Spirit (God) is His father, not Joseph or any man. Therefore, as is always true in all respects, the one born has the nature of his father. Deity. And the one born also has the nature of is mother. Human. It is impossible for these to natures to mix together, and it is equally impossible that these two natures do not exist in Jesus (who came AS one of us to provide the necessary ransom and penal aspects of making atonement in His flesh, for flesh). To die and yet able to survive death and rise again to life. And return as John 17 says to the glory He had before with the Father. And that glory is within the Father as John 1 tells us. No creature can be within God or He would cease to be God. Jesus, as Son of man, calls God Father, and through faith in Christ, persons are adopted as sons and daughters of God, therefore he is Father to us as well. (Eph 1)

 

[Arial]

Colossians 1
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

These verses do not present Jesus as not being God, but rather enforce His deity.

Acts 4
23And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. 24And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Again you use a verse that you say prove that Jesus is not God, that repeats the very point I made when I quoted Gen 1 that says in the beginning God created, and those given that say Jesus created. (And place them side by side so you could not miss it!)

The fact that Jesus was anointed as the Holy Child in no way removes His deity. He was anointed as Son of man to purchase a people for God with His blood. He was anointed for a mission and purpose. In all your arguments with trinitarians against Christ's deity, you completely ignore that we fully acknowledge He came as a man, lived as a man, died as a man. That is, as flesh and blood like us. How else was He to substitute Himself for us?

 

[Runningman]

When you pray do you ...go into your inner room, shut your door? That was Jesus' example when He taught the disciples how to pray....but I bet you 1 million dollars you don't follw that example.....which makes you a hypocrite for not following the protocol you insist on concerning prayer.

I accept your bet because where I live the doors are shut and I pray in the rooms on the inside. I rarely, if ever, have prayed openly and publicly as a spectacle except for, ironically, in a hypocritical trinitarian "church."

So about that 1 million dollars... you lost that bet. I don't expect to ever see a penny of it from you.

I keep asking because I and others get answers when praying to Jesus. But, you and others claim we can't pray tyo Jesus...and are instructed to pray to the "Father" only....So, if we don't follow Jesus' protocol...and we pray to Jesus, then who answered the prayers?

Seeing as how you're recklessly making bets for large sums of money, and losing, I have no reason to take you seriously. What did you pray for that you believe got answered?

If you can't answer that qestion then you have no right telling me the bible teaches we pray to the "Father" only....which it doesn't.

I have every right informing you what the Bible says.

Find even one example of the word "prayer" being used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus. This exercise will let you discover the truth even if you have to privately swallow your pride and accept it. You'll never do that publicly.

Just for the record the Lords prayer was presented as a "model" prayer....You do know that?

And the model for praying is to pray to the Father, bless Him, acknowledge His will be done, thank Him for everything, ask for forgiveness, ask for help, etc. You don't have to repeat those words, but that's the model.

Why are you not following the model God gave you to pray?

Also just for the record...And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”....that's in Acts 7:5-9 if you want to read about it. This calling out was a prayer.

That word prayer isn't there in Acts 7:5-9. Nice try.

Now about that money.

 

[Runningman]

It does you no good to ignore the scriptures that are given to you and present in their place scriptures that you are using in a way that utterly contradicts the ones given.

The Father is the only true God then the "Word" being God isn't a valid translation. I will admit, I am not Greek expert, but I have studied John 1:1 enough to know that the Greek doesn't actually called the Word the God.

Why I simply quoted John 17:1-3 is because the Father is the only true God then that means there can't possibly be a different God.

Here is why Jesus called God, Father. Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:30-31 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call His name Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. 34-35 And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?" And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy---the Son of God.

Which of course is the fulfillment of the prophecy in Is 9:6 For to us a child is born,m to us a son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor,m Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Actually, Jesus was never called "God" or "Father" in the Bible despite Isaiah 9:6 saying that those are things he would be "called." And even if that was what he was called, it would be in name only. Is your God God Himself or someone who is simply "called" God?

Trinitarians actually deny the Son is the Father anyway.

So, citing Jesus calling God Father is an empty defense.

Jesus said the "only" true God which is important.

The Holy Spirit (God) is His father, not Joseph or any man.

Do you think the Holy Spirit is a separate person in a trinity Godhead or are you saying the Father is the Holy Spirit?

Therefore, as is always true in all respects, the one born has the nature of his father. Deity. And the one born also has the nature of is mother. Human. It is impossible for these to natures to mix together, and it is equally impossible that these two natures do not exist in Jesus (who came AS one of us to provide the necessary ransom and penal aspects of making atonement in His flesh, for flesh). To die and yet able to survive death and rise again to life. And return as John 17 says to the glory He had before with the Father. And that glory is within the Father as John 1 tells us. No creature can be within God or He would cease to be God. Jesus, as Son of man, calls God Father, and through faith in Christ, persons are adopted as sons and daughters of God, therefore he is Father to us as well. (Eph 1)

The Bible plainly says Jesus is a man who was crucified. Believe it.

Acts 2
22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross.