Jesus was never prayed to once in the Bible

[Fred]

Don't derail this thread. If you are going to discuss, do it here instead of linking to other threads I'm not clicking on.

You were the one who first mentioned John 16:23.
So too bad.

 

[Runningman]

But then you ignore the evidence from the words of the prayer.

Try again.

Wow. That's what you're doing. Did you see where I said there is nothing about Jesus knowing the hearts of all men in the Bible? Okay, go on and show us where that is. Burden of proof is on you.

 

[Runningman]

You were the one who first mentioned John 16:23.
So too bad.

address my comments here please. thank you.

 

[Fred]

address my comments here please. thank you.

I did.

You're welcome.

 

[Fred]

Jesus was never prayed to in the Bible

Sometimes I sing only within my heart to Jesus which constitutes praying to Him.

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord.


Just in case there is any confusion, "the Lord" refers to Jesus.
τῷ κυρίῳ in 5:19 with τῷ κυρίῳ in 5:22
Ephesians 5:19-24
(19) speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
(20) always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;
(21) and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
(22) Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
(23) For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
(24) But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

 

[grace2]

Sometimes I sing only within my heart to Jesus which constitutes praying to Him.

Ephesians 5:19
Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord.


Just in case there is any confusion, "the Lord" refers to Jesus.
τῷ κυρίῳ in 5:19 with τῷ κυρίῳ in 5:22
Ephesians 5:19-24
(19) speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
(20) always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;
(21) and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
(22) Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
(23) For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
(24) But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

You guys bring up the others' word besides Jesus' word when Jesus' word is pointed out.

that's how you muddy Jesus' simple Truth.

It is a disingenuous tactic.

 

[Fred]

You guys bring up the others' word besides Jesus' word when Jesus' word is pointed out.

that's how you muddy Jesus' simple Truth.

It is a disingenuous tactic.

Ephesians 5:19 is in the Bible I own.

Better check yours.

 

[brightfame52]

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

 

[brightfame52]

Pleading to someone isn't a prayer. Prayer's only go to God as Jesus taught in Matt 6:6,9.

Yes it is, if its Lord Jesus ! You were just shown you 2 Cor 12

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 

[CrowCross]

We are only quoting what Jesus says.

When they asked Jesus how to pray....should He have said....pray to me?

 

[Arial]

You guys bring up the others' word besides Jesus' word when Jesus' word is pointed out.

that's how you muddy Jesus' simple Truth.

It is a disingenuous tactic.

Since I know from previous exchanges that you disregard all that Paul said as him not being an apostle appointed by Jesus, and that it is probably Paul you are referring to, I have two questions for you.

Do you believe that the Bible is the word of God? IOW that it is God speaking, the very mouth of God.

If yes, then does that make it trustworthy as to all that is in it, and that it contains no contradictions or lies?

 

[fastfredy0]

Since I know from previous exchanges that you disregard all that Paul said as him not being an apostle appointed by Jesus, and that it is probably Paul you are referring to, I have two questions for you.

Do you believe that the Bible is the word of God? IOW that it is God speaking, the very mouth of God.

If yes, then does that make it trustworthy as to all that is in it, and that it contains no contradictions or lies?

I think you're wasting your time ... but your logic was enjoyable. You get an A+ for patience.

 

[Arial]

I think you're wasting your time ... but your logic was enjoyable. You get an A+ for patience.

I know I am. Been there done that. But it will be interesting to see the avoidance of direct questions. Just so it's out there.

 

[Josheb]

Jesus was never prayed to in the Bible.....

Scripture says otherwise.

Revelation 5:8-10
When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for you were slain, and purchased for God with your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Revelation 8:1-3
When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne.

He was prayed to and worshiped.

 

[grace2]

Since I know from previous exchanges that you disregard all that Paul said as him not being an apostle appointed by Jesus, and that it is probably Paul you are referring to, I have two questions for you.

I know I disregard most of your quotes other than what Jesus says, it is not just yours.

that's why I disregard most of trins' justification of Jesus being God.

Jesus is the Lord and the Teacher of Christianity and salvation.

You have no excuse to disregard any of what He says.

 

[grace2]

When they asked Jesus how to pray....should He have said....pray to me?

?????????????????

Are you giving instructions to Jesus on how to pray?

 

[Arial]

I know I disregard most of your quotes other than what Jesus says, it is not just yours.

that's why I disregard most of trins' justification of Jesus being God.

Jesus is the Lord and the Teacher of Christianity and salvation.

You have no excuse to disregard any of what He says.

Are you not going to answer the questions? What about Paul? Did he disregard what Jesus said? What about the Bible? Is it God speaking? Those are simple yes or no questions.

 

[grace2]

Are you not going to answer the questions? What about Paul? Did he disregard what Jesus said? What about the Bible? Is it God speaking? Those are simple yes or no questions.

Your questions are all dismissing my point.

Nothing new, it's been asked tons of times.

 

[Fred]

Are you not going to answer the questions? What about Paul? Did he disregard what Jesus said? What about the Bible? Is it God speaking? Those are simple yes or no questions.

Trying to get him to respond to specific questions is not easy.

 

[Arial]

and yet there isn't a single line about believing Jesus is God in the gospel

Romans 10:9;John 5:18; 1 John 4:1-4

I would also note that God is a person, not a nature.

Last I checked, persons have natures.

The divine nature is something normal Christians (should) have according to Peter.

We were given a human nature at creation, not a divine nature. God is spirit. We are flesh. We were created to reflect the nature of God as His creation made in His image and likeness. So what does that mean? And what did Peter mean? He is loving. We are to be loving. He is merciful. We are to be merciful. Etc. But He never imparted to His creatures who are made of earth and to inhabit Earth, any divinity. We were created to be similar to Him in many ways, but exactly like Him in no ways. And that is a command---to bear His image----and obedience to our Maker is mandatory, even though in our fallen state as sinful beings of flesh, we cannot. Enter the great and glorious Savior! The only One not created of the Earth but proceeding from God as one of us, with our flesh and blood, with our nature, but not of our father Adam, but of His Father, God. Therefore having two natures---the nature of God who He came from, and the nature of His mother, Mary, for the purpose of offering Himself on the cross for the forgiveness of our sin. It is the perfect way of propitiation for sin. It is the only way. We have to believe in Jesus as He is. Son of God, Son of man. Not just any ole Jesus as we decide He is.

Furthmore, Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus the firstborn of (God's) creation. A firstborn refers to Jesus as God's begotten Son. Being a son necessitates a beginning point, therefore Jesus isn't God. Hence the Father is called the only true God in John 17:3.

That is the problem with isolating a few words of a sentence to arrive at an entire doctrine. 9.99 percent of the time it arrives at a false doctrine, and this case, one that grossly and fatally, arrives at a completely different Jesus from the one who is able to, and does, save.

Col 1: 15-20 says He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers, or authorities---all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the first born of the dead, that in everything He might be preeminent. For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of the cross.

And what does it say in Gen 1:1? In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." So either the Bible is contradicting itself or Jesus is God. The "firstborn of all creation" is not referring to Jesus being created, but to His preeminence, as is indicated within the quoted verses. Preeminence: greatness, superiority, supremacy.Those verses I quoted, if read from a neutral position, and not one of confirmation bias, should remove all doubt as to the argument that the Bible does not present Jesus as God. And as such, and considering what is said about Him in Col, certainly to be worshiped and prayed to.
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