GOD MADE NO COVENANT WITH GENTILES

[Arial]

The Hebrew people began with Eber and Abraham was a descendant of Eber through Noah and Shem. These were descendants of Seth through whom were identified as "sons of God" in Genesis 6 implying covenant. The Gentile nations that exist then as today come from Ham and Japheth. God made no covenant with these Gentiles. Although Noah and his wife, his sons and their wives were saved from the flood only in the sense of physical deliverance it is said that it was "[But] Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD" (Gen. 6:7–8) and this grace led to the Noahic covenant and God's promise to not destroy all life with a flood of water.

18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; Gen. 6:18.

So, Abraham was not Gentile since we now know that the lineage went to Eber who was the father of who would become the Hebrew/Jewish race.

That is completely irrelevant to my post. It ignores the fact that no Jewish nation existed until after the exodus from Egypt. Even though it is true that all those you list prior to Abraham carried the seed of Abraham, and the nation Israel was made up of the seed of Abraham, that does not make them Israelites. How could they be if there was no national Israel. What became Israel was in the possession of Canaanites. It is national/geographic Israel and ethnic Jews that you speak of as being the only covenantal people of God, excluding Gentiles from ever having been and not now, in covenant relationship with God.

And you miss the big picture contained in these seed bearers of national and ethnic Israel. They are the Seed bearers promised in Gen 3. All people are descendants of Adam and Eve. Why not go that far back and say they are ethnic Israel and so is everyone. Only one man in a family prior to the coming of Christ was the Seed bearer, (possibly also could be a woman as is the case with Mary, since Joseph was not His natural father. I would have to track it down backwards to see if that is the case.)

There are many seeds of Abraham but only one Seed, the One who would crush Satan's head and bring in the promised new covenant that tore down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile. There were many Gentiles in in the line of Jesus. Why do you insist on a division?

It was counted as righteousness, but we know it is Christ's righteousness that made all the difference. We are imputed His righteousness, not Abraham's.

I did not say that we are imputed Abraham's righteousness. Our faith in Christ is what brings the imputed righteousness we have. Just as Abraham's faith was counted to him as righteousness. I don't even know why you said that. It bears no relationship to what I said at all.

All God's promises are to and for Israel. God made no covenant with Gentiles. From Genesis to Revelation all these writings are to and for Israel.

So you do not believe the Bible when it says Jesus did away with the old covenant since He fulfilled it, and established the new covenant? You do not believe that the OT promises that this new covenant is with people's of all nations? There is no relationship with God except through covenant, and one God initiates. His people are covenant people. You do not believe the Bible when it says not all who are descended from Abraham are of Abraham? Or when it says the Gentiles are adopted into Israel? Do you not understand or believe that there is a natural Israel and a spiritual Israel and both are God's people.

Did you miss the shadowning that is found in the holy things being made after the pattern of the real thing in heaven? Nor comprehended the meaning of the heavenly Jerusalem? Is God to you confined to and obligated to one tiny spot in all the earth to dwell and covenant with? Can you not see that Christ is true Israel because He is faithful Israel, even though scripture tells us that very thing? Do you only take from the new covenant those things that would benefit only this tiny spot in all creation, only the Jews, at the expense of the suffering and dying of Jesus on the cross for peoples in all nations. Would you take that from the ones for whom He died because they are not of ethnic Israel as though you do not want them to have it or have a covenant relationship with the Father?

What I do mean is that after 2000 years of Gentiles being grafted into the natural branches (Israel) that they have become accustomed and indoctrinated that because of Israel calling for the crucifixion of their Messiah that they hold this as God rejecting them

That is an assumption to apply to all Gentiles. I certainly don't believe that so probably you should find another way to make your point that has some credence because that has none.

God brought many ethnic Jews to Christ and does so every day. But it cannot be denied that He most certainly did extract judgment on Jerusalem, the place of worship under the Sinai covenant, for the killing of their Messiah who He had promised. In 70 a.d. the temple and all Jerusalem was destroyed, the line of the priesthood was forever lost, and the old form of covenant worship and forgiveness destroyed. Ended, with the final sacrifice for forgiveness made on the cross, and faith in Him the only way to approach God. It was not the first judgement He unloaded on Israel and Judah.

That being said, that does not mean that He rejects all ethnic Israel or even national Israel. It exists today in a lesser form. But for any to be saved unto eternal life they too must be placed in Christ through faith. No other way.

I have to finish this later. Things to do.

 

[donadams]

Go back to the prophecy. God killed Him. You think He's going to let mere humans hurt His Son? It was Father Abraham that was ready with a knife to kill son Isaac.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs,
And carried our sorrows:
Yet we did esteem him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Is 53:4.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
He shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,
And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Is 53:10.

Just as there was a lamb slain by God from the foundation (creation) of the world so did God Himself slew His Son. And He used wicked hands to do it.
God was the one that made His Son an offering for [the] sin (of His people.)

What about the Jews only part?

 

[Arial]

Was the Mosaic Covenant (Ex 19-24) a land grant (everlasting possession) covenant (Ge 17:8, 48:4), or a law covenant temporarily added to the Abrahamic covenant until the coming of Christ (Gal 3:19)?
The NT presents it as a law covenant to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), not to make righteous by law keeping (Ro 3:21-22).

Is there a reason why it can't be both? It was land grant in that keeping the land was conditioned on not breaking the covenant laws. As was having Him as their covenant provider and protector.

They were likewise returned to the land during Ezra and Nehemiah, the wall rebuilt, the temple rebuilt and the people re-dedicating themselves to God with great joy and celebration which could be heard from afar.
The promise of the return to the land has been fulfilled. No such promise remains to Israel.

All through the history of Israel God is long suffering with them. He had also prophesied through Jeremiah that after Judah's exile a remnant would return. It was not yet time for the arrival of Messiah. And there is a geographic Israel now though it's borders are not the same, but there is no temple. Messiah came, Messiah died, Messiah was raised to life. The old order has passed away, the new has arrived.

Where do we find the land grant (Ge 15:9-21) to be a covenant of law (Ex 19-24)?
The land grant was an unconditional unilateral covenant of an everlasting possession (Ge 17:8, 48:4), no performance required,
and fulfilled to the patriarchs in the heavenly land (Heb 11:3-16).

Yes, but when Israel became a nation a bilateral covenant was established---the Mosaic covenant---that pertained to the land as well as other things. Deut 11:22-25. The land still remained but the rebellious Israelites were cast out of it, just as Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden. It was the place where God was and where they met with Him for worship and forgiveness.

However, Christ was created righteous as was Adam. He did not become righteous, he retained his righteousness by his obedience, rather than sinning it away in his trial, as did Adam.
Christ's obedience to the law did not make him righteous, for the law was not given to make righteous , it was given to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), for righteousness has always been by faith (Gal 3:11, Ge 15:6, Ro 4:1-3).

Agreed."Become" was not the best choice of words. He had to live among us perfectly righteous.

The focus and purpose of the Mosaic covenant was to reveal sin, not to make righteous (Ro 3:20), for righteousness has always been by faith (Gal 3:11, Ge 15:6, Ro 3:21-22, 4:1-3).
The focus and purpose of the New Covenant is fulfillment of the promised Holy Spirit (Ac 2:38-39) for salvation by faith alone.

I did not say the Mosaic covenant, I said the covenant of redemption.

The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the promised Holy Spirit (Ac 2:38-39) putting his law in our minds and writing them on our hearts, and the forgiveness of sin (Heb 8:12) which is salvation from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9).

It is the new covenant, not the fulfillment of it.

 

[Arial]

How would you explain this passage?...

Jeremiah 31:35-37 ESV
Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD of hosts is his name: [36] "If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever." [37] Thus says the LORD: "If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD."

He hasn't done either of those things. That does not mean that it will exist in the way we determine it will exist. Or that there is not a spiritual Israel. A Jerusalem in heaven.

 

[prism]

He hasn't done either of those things. That does not mean that it will exist in the way we determine it will exist. Or that there is not a spiritual Israel. A Jerusalem in heaven.

It looks like the passage mentions ,sun, moon, seas etc., things temporal, not found in heaven.
Do you ever wonder why the Jewish people have endured over the ages, amidst persecutions even from the 'Church'?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Are you referring to this starting with Adam and Eve?

Genesis 3:15 ASV
and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

..even though it was spoken to the serpent who was neither Gentile or Jewish.

Well, it sure wasn't any of the angels that sinned. They were all locked up before the creation of man.
I put this event between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That is completely irrelevant to my post. It ignores the fact that no Jewish nation existed until after the exodus from Egypt. Even though it is true that all those you list prior to Abraham carried the seed of Abraham, and the nation Israel was made up of the seed of Abraham, that does not make them Israelites.

"Jew" is a derivative of the designation Judah as in tribe of. I use it interchangeably with Hebrew.

How could they be if there was no national Israel. What became Israel was in the possession of Canaanites. It is national/geographic Israel and ethnic Jews that you speak of as being the only covenantal people of God, excluding Gentiles from ever having been and not now, in covenant relationship with God.

God made no covenant with Gentiles.
Gentiles receive the blessings that God gave to Abraham.

And you miss the big picture contained in these seed bearers of national and ethnic Israel. They are the Seed bearers promised in Gen 3. All people are descendants of Adam and Eve. Why not go that far back and say they are ethnic Israel and so is everyone. Only one man in a family prior to the coming of Christ was the Seed bearer, (possibly also could be a woman as is the case with Mary, since Joseph was not His natural father. I would have to track it down backwards to see if that is the case.)

There are many seeds of Abraham but only one Seed, the One who would crush Satan's head and bring in the promised new covenant that tore down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile. There were many Gentiles in in the line of Jesus. Why do you insist on a division?

I did not say that we are imputed Abraham's righteousness. Our faith in Christ is what brings the imputed righteousness we have. Just as Abraham's faith was counted to him as righteousness. I don't even know why you said that. It bears no relationship to what I said at all.

So you do not believe the Bible when it says Jesus did away with the old covenant since He fulfilled it, and established the new covenant? You do not believe that the OT promises that this new covenant is with people's of all nations? There is no relationship with God except through covenant, and one God initiates. His people are covenant people. You do not believe the Bible when it says not all who are descended from Abraham are of Abraham? Or when it says the Gentiles are adopted into Israel? Do you not understand or believe that there is a natural Israel and a spiritual Israel and both are God's people.

Did you miss the shadowning that is found in the holy things being made after the pattern of the real thing in heaven? Nor comprehended the meaning of the heavenly Jerusalem? Is God to you confined to and obligated to one tiny spot in all the earth to dwell and covenant with? Can you not see that Christ is true Israel because He is faithful Israel, even though scripture tells us that very thing? Do you only take from the new covenant those things that would benefit only this tiny spot in all creation, only the Jews, at the expense of the suffering and dying of Jesus on the cross for peoples in all nations. Would you take that from the ones for whom He died because they are not of ethnic Israel as though you do not want them to have it or have a covenant relationship with the Father?

That is an assumption to apply to all Gentiles. I certainly don't believe that so probably you should find another way to make your point that has some credence because that has none.

God brought many ethnic Jews to Christ and does so every day. But it cannot be denied that He most certainly did extract judgment on Jerusalem, the place of worship under the Sinai covenant, for the killing of their Messiah who He had promised. In 70 a.d. the temple and all Jerusalem was destroyed, the line of the priesthood was forever lost, and the old form of covenant worship and forgiveness destroyed. Ended, with the final sacrifice for forgiveness made on the cross, and faith in Him the only way to approach God. It was not the first judgement He unloaded on Israel and Judah.

That being said, that does not mean that He rejects all ethnic Israel or even national Israel. It exists today in a lesser form. But for any to be saved unto eternal life they too must be placed in Christ through faith. No other way.

I have to finish this later. Things to do.

 

[prism]

Well, it sure wasn't any of the angels that sinned. They were all locked up before the creation of man.
I put this event between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

I see nothing but speculation between those 2 verses, a.k.a 'reading between the lines'... not my cup of tea. lol

 

[Eleanor]

Is there a reason why it can't be both?

First of all, let me clarify what I was not clear on.

The land grant (Ge 15:9-21) was a separate covenant from the covenant to be their God 15 years later (Ge 17).
The Mosaic covenant was added to the second Abrahamic covenant of Ge 17, when they came out of Egypt over 400 after that.
The Mosaic covenant was not a part of the unconditional covenant of the land grant (Ge 15), but was a temporary addition (Gal 3:19)
to the conditional covenant (Ge 17) 15 years later to be their God.

The condition of the Ge 17 Abrahamic covenant to be their God was total consecration to God; i.e., no idolatry.
Therefore, to show what total consecration to God consisted of and looked like, the Mosaic covenant of law was temporarily added until Christ (Gal 3:19), when the Mosaic covenant was then made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

The Mosaic law was not added to the unconditional land grant covenant (Ge 15), but to the conditional covenant to be their God (Ge 17).

Secondly, would this work for you?

The first covenant to Abraham and his descendants (Ge 15:9-2) was the land grant, an unconditional covenant of the grant of Canaan (and which the patriarchs never possessed a foot of ground), no conditions, no penalties.

The second covenant to Abraham and his descendants (Ge 17) was a conditional covenant to be his and his decendants' God, conditioned on consecration to God, death as the penalty of violation of circumcision.

The third covenant to Abraham's descendants, over 400 years after the second covenant, was a temporary addition until Christ (Gal 3:19) to the second covenant (Ge 17) and it was conditional, the condition being obedience to the Mosaic law (Ex 24-29) , not given to make righteous (Ro 1:17, 3:20-21) but to reveal the nature of sin (spiritual defilement) and its remedy (shedding of blood; i.e., death).

The fourth covenant (Jer 31:31-34) to God's people was the promise of the Holy Spirit, who would write God's laws in their minds and on their hearts (Heb 8:10), and God's forgiveness of their sin (Heb 8:12).

The first covenant being fulfilled (Josh 21:43, 23:14),
the second covenant fulfilled after they came out of Canan,
the temporary third covenant made obsolete by the fourth covenant (Heb 8:13),
the fourth covenant (Jer 31:31-34) fulfilled to everyone to whom it is made when they are born again.

It was land grant in that keeping the land was conditioned on not breaking the covenant laws. As was having Him as their covenant provider and protector.

The land grant covenant (Ge 15:9-21) was not conditional.
Their receiving the land was based on no condition.

All through the history of Israel God is long suffering with them. He had also prophesied through Jeremiah that after Judah's exile a remnant would return. It was not yet time for the arrival of Messiah. And there is a geographic Israel now though it's borders are not the same, but there is no temple. Messiah came, Messiah died, Messiah was raised to life. The old order has passed away, the new has arrived.

Yes, but when Israel became a nation a bilateral covenant was established---the Mosaic covenant

However, a bilateral covenant was established over 400 years earlier in Ge 17 ("As for me," Ge 17:4; "As for you," Ge 17:9).

that pertained to the land as well as other things. Deut 11:22-25.

Dt 11:22-25 applies to God himself, rather than they, driving out the occupants of the granted land (Josh 23:5), of which they had already taken full possession over 15 years earlier (Josh 21:43), now giving them full occupation of the land as well (Josh 23:14).

The land still remained but the rebellious Israelites were cast out of it, just as Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden. It was the place where God was and where they met with Him for worship and forgiveness.,

Which has nothing to do with the unconditional covenant of its grant (Ge 15:9-21), fulfilled in its full possession (1 Kgs 4:21, 24-25) and then its full occupation (Josh 21:43, 23:14).

Agreed."Become" was not the best choice of words. He had to live among us perfectly righteous.
I did not say the Mosaic covenant, I said the covenant of redemption.

Is the covenant of redemption not the new covenant, as I referenced it?

It is the new covenant, not the fulfillment of it.

Is not the new covenant fulfilled to everyone to whom it is made when they are born again?

 

[EarlyActs]

"Jew" is a derivative of the designation Judah as in tribe of. I use it interchangeably with Hebrew.

God made no covenant with Gentiles.
Gentiles receive the blessings that God gave to Abraham.

Actually the recipient of the promise was the Seed, meaning one person, not many people. It means many people through Christ. If we do not assert this, we are not talking about NT Christianity, but something else. This is retroactive. There are not 2 programs bouncing back and forth.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That is completely irrelevant to my post. It ignores the fact that no Jewish nation existed until after the exodus from Egypt. Even though it is true that all those you list prior to Abraham carried the seed of Abraham, and the nation Israel was made up of the seed of Abraham, that does not make them Israelites. How could they be if there was no national Israel. What became Israel was in the possession of Canaanites. It is national/geographic Israel and ethnic Jews that you speak of as being the only covenantal people of God, excluding Gentiles from ever having been and not now, in covenant relationship with God.

I use "Jew" and "Hebrew" interchangeably. I'll be more precise.

And you miss the big picture contained in these seed bearers of national and ethnic Israel. They are the Seed bearers promised in Gen 3. All people are descendants of Adam and Eve. Why not go that far back and say they are ethnic Israel and so is everyone. Only one man in a family prior to the coming of Christ was the Seed bearer, (possibly also could be a woman as is the case with Mary, since Joseph was not His natural father. I would have to track it down backwards to see if that is the case.)
There are many seeds of Abraham but only one Seed, the One who would crush Satan's head and bring in the promised new covenant that tore down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile. There were many Gentiles in in the line of Jesus. Why do you insist on a division?

Because God is precise to have Covenant with a certain line of people from Adam to Moses and David and others.

I did not say that we are imputed Abraham's righteousness. Our faith in Christ is what brings the imputed righteousness we have. Just as Abraham's faith was counted to him as righteousness. I don't even know why you said that. It bears no relationship to what I said at all.
So you do not believe the Bible when it says Jesus did away with the old covenant since He fulfilled it, and established the new covenant? You do not believe that the OT promises that this new covenant is with people's of all nations?

God made no covenant with Gentiles.
The covenant God made with Abraham was to him and his seed. Gentiles are not his seed.
Gentiles receive the blessings God covenanted with Abraham but do not have a covenant of their own they can speak of.

There is no relationship with God except through covenant, and one God initiates. His people are covenant people. You do not believe the Bible when it says not all who are descended from Abraham are of Abraham? Or when it says the Gentiles are adopted into Israel? Do you not understand or believe that there is a natural Israel and a spiritual Israel and both are God's people.

I agree God is a God of covenant. Throughout the Scripture God has made His covenants with various individuals.
There is a natural Israel/Jacob and a spiritual Israel/Jacob to whom God's covenant passed to just as there is a natural twelve tribes and a spiritual twelve tribes. The natural twelve tribes are the sons of Jacob, and the spiritual twelve tribes are believers who being baptized into the body of Christ are also a member of the natural twelve tribes/sons. The twelve apostles represent the spiritual aspect of the twelve natural tribes.

Did you miss the shadowning that is found in the holy things being made after the pattern of the real thing in heaven? Nor comprehended the meaning of the heavenly Jerusalem? Is God to you confined to and obligated to one tiny spot in all the earth to dwell and covenant with? Can you not see that Christ is true Israel because He is faithful Israel, even though scripture tells us that very thing? Do you only take from the new covenant those things that would benefit only this tiny spot in all creation, only the Jews, at the expense of the suffering and dying of Jesus on the cross for peoples in all nations. Would you take that from the ones for whom He died because they are not of ethnic Israel as though you do not want them to have it or have a covenant relationship with the Father?

Messiah and Redeemer was promised to and for Israel. Messiah and Redeemer came to and for Israel. Messiah and Redeemer died to and for Israel as per covenant and prophecy. God made no covenant with Gentiles. Gentiles receive the blessings God gave to Abraham as per His covenant with Abraham. But there is no covenant God made with Gentiles they can speak of. They can only speak truthfully that they receive blessings from the Abrahamic Covenant but God made no covenant with Gentiles.
God is the potter. Abraham is the cup. What was poured into the cup is the blessings God poured into Abraham the cup.
But Abraham's cup runneth over and this is what Gentiles can only speak of. The blessings. Not the covenant.

jeremiah1five said:
What I do mean is that after 2000 years of Gentiles being grafted into the natural branches (Israel) that they have become accustomed and indoctrinated that because of Israel calling for the crucifixion of their Messiah that they hold this as God rejecting them

That is an assumption to apply to all Gentiles. I certainly don't believe that so probably you should find another way to make your point that has some credence because that has none.

I can see the holier-than-thou attitude of a great majority of Gentile Christians towards Jews in nearly 20 years of posting at discussion boards and forums.

God brought many ethnic Jews to Christ and does so every day. But it cannot be denied that He most certainly did extract judgment on Jerusalem, the place of worship under the Sinai covenant, for the killing of their Messiah who He had promised.

I see other reasons for the destruction of the Temple. One is also to begin to fulfill prophecies of Gentiles receiving the blessings of Abraham and becoming saved to worship God.
Another is a more personal reason of God. To make His Bride Israel jealous before He ends the Gentile era of His Plan of Man timeclock and return His full attention to His covenant with Israel to restore that relationship. To the Hebrew it is the Time of Jacob's/Israel's Trouble. Gentile Christians call it the Great Tribulation. Then Israel will take center-stage. Gentile Christians will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble right alongside Israel.

In 70 a.d. the temple and all Jerusalem was destroyed, the line of the priesthood was forever lost, and the old form of covenant worship and forgiveness destroyed. Ended, with the final sacrifice for forgiveness made on the cross, and faith in Him the only way to approach God. It was not the first judgement He unloaded on Israel and Judah.

The only way for anyone to approach God is if He wills it and not without the anointing of His Spirit (meaning the person is saved, born-again, Spirit-baptized into the body of Christ.)
When Christ ascends to the throne of David animal sacrifices will be reinstituted.

That being said, that does not mean that He rejects all ethnic Israel or even national Israel. It exists today in a lesser form. But for any to be saved unto eternal life they too must be placed in Christ through faith. No other way.
I have to finish this later. Things to do.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What about the Jews only part?

God made no covenant with Gentiles.

 

[EarlyActs]

It looks like the passage mentions ,sun, moon, seas etc., things temporal, not found in heaven.
Do you ever wonder why the Jewish people have endured over the ages, amidst persecutions even from the 'Church'?

They have learned to be resilient, yes, but even their own interest in returning to their land in the late 1800s, is not a Christian-driven thing. There's no interest in their land as such in the NT that I know of; there is concern that it not be lost in the revolt, but that was hope-less.

We should be asking 'ever wonder why' about a number of other things, like the new temple in Jn 1 or the actual meaning of all those technical terms about Israel's promises, inheritance, commonwealth in Eph 2B-3A.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I see nothing but speculation between those 2 verses, a.k.a 'reading between the lines'... not my cup of tea. lol

It's referred to as "The Gap Theory" and it not unreasonable conclusions based on Scripture.

 

[EarlyActs]

God made no covenant with Gentiles.

He made Messiah a covenant to benefit them; so yes He did. It is the eternal covenant for all those encased by the spectre of death, Is 24.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Actually the recipient of the promise was the Seed, meaning one person, not many people. It means many people through Christ. If we do not assert this, we are not talking about NT Christianity, but something else. This is retroactive. There are not 2 programs bouncing back and forth.

Right. There is only one people bouncing back and forth with God. The Hebrew/Jewish people.
God made no covenant with Gentiles.

 

[EarlyActs]

I use "Jew" and "Hebrew" interchangeably. I'll be more precise.

Because God is precise to have Covenant with a certain line of people from Adam to Moses and David and others.

God made no covenant with Gentiles.
The covenant God made with Abraham was to him and his seed. Gentiles are not his seed.
Gentiles receive the blessings God covenanted with Abraham but do not have a covenant of their own they can speak of.

I agree God is a God of covenant. Throughout the Scripture God has made His covenants with various individuals.
There is a natural Israel/Jacob and a spiritual Israel/Jacob to whom God's covenant passed to just as there is a natural twelve tribes and a spiritual twelve tribes. The natural twelve tribes are the sons of Jacob, and the spiritual twelve tribes are believers who being baptized into the body of Christ are also a member of the natural twelve tribes/sons. The twelve apostles represent the spiritual aspect of the twelve natural tribes.

Messiah and Redeemer was promised to and for Israel. Messiah and Redeemer came to and for Israel. Messiah and Redeemer died to and for Israel as per covenant and prophecy. God made no covenant with Gentiles. Gentiles receive the blessings God gave to Abraham as per His covenant with Abraham. But there is no covenant God made with Gentiles they can speak of. They can only speak truthfully that they receive blessings from the Abrahamic Covenant but God made no covenant with Gentiles.
God is the potter. Abraham is the cup. What was poured into the cup is the blessings God poured into Abraham the cup.
But Abraham's cup runneth over and this is what Gentiles can only speak of. The blessings. Not the covenant.

jeremiah1five said:
What I do mean is that after 2000 years of Gentiles being grafted into the natural branches (Israel) that they have become accustomed and indoctrinated that because of Israel calling for the crucifixion of their Messiah that they hold this as God rejecting them

I can see the holier-than-thou attitude of a great majority of Gentile Christians towards Jews in nearly 20 years of posting at discussion boards and forums.

I see other reasons for the destruction of the Temple. One is also to begin to fulfill prophecies of Gentiles receiving the blessings of Abraham and becoming saved to worship God.
Another is a more personal reason of God. To make His Bride Israel jealous before He ends the Gentile era of His Plan of Man timeclock and return His full attention to His covenant with Israel to restore that relationship. To the Hebrew it is the Time of Jacob's/Israel's Trouble. Gentile Christians call it the Great Tribulation. Then Israel will take center-stage. Gentile Christians will go through the Time of Jacob's Trouble right alongside Israel.

The only way for anyone to approach God is if He wills it and not without the anointing of His Spirit (meaning the person is saved, born-again, Spirit-baptized into the body of Christ.)
When Christ ascends to the throne of David animal sacrifices will be reinstituted.

re: When Christ ascends to the throne of David animal sacrifices will be reinstituted.

I don't think you understand what happened in the resurrection, acc. to Acts 2, both v30-1 and the talk's punchline.

 

[jeremiah1five]

He made Messiah a covenant to benefit them; so yes He did. It is the eternal covenant for all those encased by the spectre of death, Is 24.

Israel's Messiah is the fulfillment of OT prophecies and covenant.
Messiah comes to Israel through those prophecies and covenants.
But God made no covenant with Gentiles.

 

[EarlyActs]

Right. There is only one people bouncing back and forth with God. The Hebrew/Jewish people.
God made no covenant with Gentiles.

Then you must 1, say that that one people is believers (I think you mean the race-nation) and 2, include the Gentiles, which was known from of old (James in Acts 15, quoting Amos 9).

 

[EarlyActs]

Israel's Messiah is the fulfillment of OT prophecies and covenant.
Messiah comes to Israel through those prophecies and covenants.
But God made no covenant with Gentiles.

But Eph 2-3 is clear that they gain it through Christ, so there is no point to what you are saying. Abraham's children always were going to be those who have faith, Rom 4 and Gal 3.

Please read Gal 3 10x before we speak again.