GOD MADE NO COVENANT WITH GENTILES

[jeremiah1five]

Are you calling the NT word of God a liar in Eph 5:30-32?

The truth of Scripture is found only in reconciling Scripture to itself.
Those who understand Scripture know that to set it against itself, as you are doing, is error.
That is your choice.

The bride of Christ is the people of God, both of the OT (Hos 2:19-23) and the NT (Eph 2:30-32).
You get to decide if you believe the NT.

When God said He was betrothed to Israel forever there were no Gentile Christians, only a few Gentile converts to Judaism.
Gentile believers are grafted in.
God has covenant with Abraham who is father of the Hebrew RACE (although Eber is seen as the father of the Hebrew people) it was the covenant and the sign of circumcision that officially made Abraham 'Hebrew' and separated from the Gentiles. There were three of Noah's sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Shem was chosen by God to eventually bring forth His Son from the tribe of Judah and the other two were the fathers of the Gentile nations.
Israel will be at the Marriage Supper through covenant. Gentiles will be there by invitation.

 

[Arial]

Prophesied to the Jews and came to the Jews. Sent to only the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

To make a division between Jew and Gentile on this scripture is to remain utterly silent on dozens of others. Jesus came to the Jews, born under the law to fulfill the law in perfect righteousness to it. Here is one of the scriptures treated as though it does not exist and has no meaning. John 10:14-16 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Speaking to the Samaritan woman, salvation was of the Jews, not the Samaritans.
Now inform yourself of the rest of the story in the NT epistles.
Salvation is of Jesus, who was a Jew.

As in your refusal to belief the rest of the NT; e.g., Eph 5:30-32.

The Samaritan was half-Jew whether through marriage with Gentiles (Babylonians/Assyrians) but before God they were still Jews. If any of the blood of any of the twelve tribes of Israel flow through their veins, they are Jewish. Look at what this woman said:

4 And he must needs go through Samaria.
5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
6 Now Jacob’s well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.
8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)
9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
11 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Jn 4:4–26.

Jesus came to and for the lost sheep of the House of Israel and she was a daughter of Abraham.

 

[Mod46]

You have such a prejudice against Israel from whom there is salvation for salvation is of the Jews, Jesus said.

This is no doubt a false accusation as no one has claimed or showed a prejudice against Israel. That is simply how you are interpreting those who disagree with your presentation of God making no covenant with the Gentiles. Their disagreement is because they see the Bible as saying the opposite of what you say and that premise is supported. So no more accusations of prejudice or hate or arrogance directed at others because of disagreement. Consider this a friendly warning.

 

[Ladodgers6]

1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis 17:1–7.

The Abrahamic Covenant. A covenant in which a man and his wife were given outstanding promises for not only him and his immediate children but for their descendants also. A covenant in which a Redeemer and King would be born to remove the sins of God's covenant people and give them eternal life. And from this day forward God has been working to that end using only this covenant and no other for there is no other Name by which anyone will be saved but the Name of God: Yahweh (YHWH.) It is only through this covenant will God save His Chosen people Israel. But God has made no covenant with Gentiles. But Gentiles are not excluded for there are many prophecies through the decades sent to Israel from God's prophets that Gentiles will be included, and we later find from the writings of Paul, grafted in along with the natural branches of the Olive Tree, which is Israel, that Israel will be the light to lead the Gentiles to Jerusalem to worship God alongside them.

The Church, or Great Congregation of the LORD is Israel. The Bride of Christ is Israel for God says in the Old Testament that He is betrothed to Israel forever. But God has made no covenant with Gentiles.
When all is said and done, and Israel's Messiah and King sits on the throne of David to rule His people from Jerusalem there will be a Marriage Supper of the Lamb and His Bride. Israel is there by covenant, but Gentiles will be there by invitation.
God has made no covenant with Gentiles.
But you Gentiles have receive an invitation to partake of the blessings God has bestowed upon Abram, Isaac, and Jacob, and the twelve tribes of Israel and their descendants.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 1
2 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:11–29.

All well and good but God has made no covenant with Gentiles.

So, Gentiles are not part of the Covenant Community?

 

[prism]

As much as there's a difference between true and false.

What I was saying, is that many go by the name of Christian but are tares without the new birth.
If they were born again they would love what God loves within biblical limits.

 

[prism]

When God said He was betrothed to Israel forever there were no Gentile Christians, only a few Gentile converts to Judaism.
Gentile believers are grafted in.

Spoiler alert: Judaism, during Jesus day, was not the faith of Abraham.

 

[Arial]

Spoiler alert: Judaism, during Jesus day, was not the faith of Abraham.

Right. Abraham was a Gentile who lived among pagans. There was no Israel and Abraham never became an Israelite. The covenant that God made with Abraham concerning the land of Canaan became the land grant covenant portion of the covenant with Israel at Sinai with its laws. They lost the land for violations of the law, specifically the first commandment, by constantly worship other gods.

That did not stop the covenant of grace of faith counted as righteousness that would go to all nations through Abraham's Seed. Jesus had to come under the Sinai law in order to fulfill all righteousness, qualifying as the substitute for people of all nations, on the cross.

@jeremiah1five considers saying such a thing as Gentile arrogance and prejudice against Israel. Implying that Gentile believers say God broke His covenant with Israel, lied to them by not keeping His promises. But it is not either of those things, for God keeps a remnant of ethnic Israel for Himself. And He has no obligation to keep the promises pertaining to the land because Israel broke that covenant. And God scattered them into all nations.

 

[prism]

There was no Israel and Abraham never became an Israelite. The covenant that God made with Abraham concerning the land of Canaan became the land grant covenant portion of the covenant with Israel at Sinai with its laws. They lost the land for violations of the law, specifically the first commandment, by constantly worship other gods.

How would you explain this passage?...

Jeremiah 31:35-37 ESV
Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD of hosts is his name: [36] "If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever." [37] Thus says the LORD: "If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD."

 

[jeremiah1five]

What I was saying, is that many go by the name of Christian but are tares without the new birth.
If they were born again they would love what God loves within biblical limits.

True.
One thing a true born of God Christian loves is His Word, and to accept it as written.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Spoiler alert: Judaism, during Jesus day, was not the faith of Abraham.

The multitudes that followed Jesus were. The Sanhedrin was made up of both Pharisees and Sadducees who were for the most part corrupt and at least two were faithful to God: Nicodemus and Joseph. But the common folk were the ones that held more closely to God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

To make a division between Jew and Gentile on this scripture is to remain utterly silent on dozens of others. Jesus came to the Jews, born under the law to fulfill the law in perfect righteousness to it.

There are distinctions and Paul makes it:

32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1 Cor. 10:32.

Here is one of the scriptures treated as though it does not exist and has no meaning. John 10:14-16 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

He laid down His life as foretold by the prophets (Isaiah is one) for the sheep and the sheep primarily being Israel. Gentile sheep was still yet future for while the Temple still stood everything done by Christ was to fulfill prophecies having to do primarily with Israel. Every teaching of Jesus recorded in the gospels was made to Israel. This was the whole crux of His arrival. It was in fulfillment of the prophecies God made to His covenant people.

15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; Dt 18:15.

God speaks to Israel in this prophecy and it is implied in the text that "unto him ye shall hearken" are those to whom He is sent: Israel.

But these two groups are not one flock yet. This will occur after Jesus is on the throne and rules both groups from Jerusalem. However, in the Spirit they are one flock, but I don't think this is what is being referred by Jesus above. I prefer to see finality in His words above in which both natural and spiritual are accomplished.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Right. Abraham was a Gentile who lived among pagans. There was no Israel and Abraham never became an Israelite. The covenant that God made with Abraham concerning the land of Canaan became the land grant covenant portion of the covenant with Israel at Sinai with its laws. They lost the land for violations of the law, specifically the first commandment, by constantly worship other gods.

The Hebrew people began with Eber and Abraham was a descendant of Eber through Noah and Shem. These were descendants of Seth through whom were identified as "sons of God" in Genesis 6 implying covenant. The Gentile nations that exist then as today come from Ham and Japheth. God made no covenant with these Gentiles. Although Noah and his wife, his sons and their wives were saved from the flood only in the sense of physical deliverance it is said that it was "[But] Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD" (Gen. 6:7–8) and this grace led to the Noahic covenant and God's promise to not destroy all life with a flood of water.

18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; Gen. 6:18.

So, Abraham was not Gentile since we now know that the lineage went to Eber who was the father of who would become the Hebrew/Jewish race.

That did not stop the covenant of grace of faith counted as righteousness that would go to all nations through Abraham's Seed. Jesus had to come under the Sinai law in order to fulfill all righteousness, qualifying as the substitute for people of all nations, on the cross.

It was counted as righteousness, but we know it is Christ's righteousness that made all the difference. We are imputed His righteousness, not Abraham's.
All God's promises are to and for Israel. God made no covenant with Gentiles. From Genesis to Revelation all these writings are to and for Israel.

@jeremiah1five considers saying such a thing as Gentile arrogance and prejudice against Israel. Implying that Gentile believers say God broke His covenant with Israel, lied to them by not keeping His promises.

Yes, I said that but never said Gentiles say that God lied to His covenant people the Jews. What I do mean is that after 2000 years of Gentiles being grafted into the natural branches (Israel) that they have become accustomed and indoctrinated that because of Israel calling for the crucifixion of their Messiah that they hold this as God rejecting them and Gentiles are now taken the lead in all things Bible which for this particular TIMES may be true, but Gentiles are being USED by God to make Israel jealous for the sole purpose to cause them to return/repent back to God which will take place either pre-tribulation or during tribulation for it is the two witnesses who witness to Israel straight from their own Scripture that this Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah and so all Israel shall be saved - as Paul declares.

But it is not either of those things, for God keeps a remnant of ethnic Israel for Himself. And He has no obligation to keep the promises pertaining to the land because Israel broke that covenant. And God scattered them into all nations.

It's not a remnant.
And see, you prove my point above. It doesn't matter in the final conclusion of things that Israel may have followed after other strange gods and angered God that He judge them, it matters that God is faithful to His Promises and will give Israel all He's Promised, redemptions, salvation, the land, riches, prosperity, etc.
God has covenant with His Chosen people and will fulfill ALL His Promises to them in His appointed TIME.
But God made no covenant with Gentiles.

 

[prism]

True.
One thing a true born of God Christian loves is His Word, and to accept it as written.

That's a no-brainer. It's like saying fish are created to swim in water, not walk on land.

 

[prism]

The multitudes that followed Jesus were. The Sanhedrin was made up of both Pharisees and Sadducees who were for the most part corrupt and at least two were faithful to God: Nicodemus and Joseph. But the common folk were the ones that held more closely to God.

So when you speak of Judaism, try to make it clear as to which you are referring to.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That's a no-brainer. It's like saying fish are created to swim in water, not walk on land.

Yes, but in practice it is not so.

 

[jeremiah1five]

So when you speak of Judaism, try to make it clear as to which you are referring to.

I am referring to the line of Covenants God made with certain people all the way down to Adam to which the first covenant was made and the first prophecy of God's grace upon them.

 

[prism]

I am referring to the line of Covenants God made with certain people all the way down to Adam to which the first covenant was made and the first prophecy of God's grace upon them.

Are you referring to this starting with Adam and Eve?

Genesis 3:15 ASV
and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

..even though it was spoken to the serpent who was neither Gentile or Jewish.

 

[Eleanor]

Abraham himself was a Gentile. Jacob, Abraham's grandson was called Israel. There was no Israel and no Jewish nation or people until God took the natural descendants of Abraham , centuries after the promise and covenant were made out of Egypt and into the land He promised Abraham. There were two aspects of the covenant with Abraham. One a land grant covenant---the Mosaic Sinai covenant----and the other of all nations being blessed through his Seed.

Was the Mosaic Covenant (Ex 19-24) a land grant (everlasting possession) covenant (Ge 17:8, 48:4), or a law covenant temporarily added to the Abrahamic covenant until the coming of Christ (Gal 3:19)?
The NT presents it as a law covenant to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), not to make righteous by law keeping (Ro 3:21-22).

The latter aspect deals with the the covenant of redemption first expressed in the Garden of Eden. That the serpent would bruise His heel, but He would crush the serpent's head. The Seed of the woman. The latter not concerning possession of land but of faith being counted as righteousness. (Gen 13-15)
National geographic Israel eventually lost the land because they repeatedly broke the covenant by breaking the very first commandment in it. Worshiping other gods.,

They were likewise returned to the land during Ezra and Nehemiah, the wall rebuilt, the temple rebuilt and the people re-dedicating themselves to God with great joy and celebration which could be heard from afar.
The promise of the return to the land has been fulfilled. No such promise remains to Israel.

But that did not stop the covenant of redemption through faith from continuing. The covenant Law was given to national Israel and had to be kept perfectly. This is the whole point of a national Israel with a land grant covenant of laws.

Where do we find the land grant (Ge 15:9-21) to be a covenant of law (Ex 19-24)?
The land grant was an unconditional unilateral covenant of an everlasting possession (Ge 17:8, 48:4), no performance required,
and fulfilled to the patriarchs in the heavenly land (Heb 11:3-16).

While the Mosaic covenant was a bilateral conditional covenant, conditioned on Israel's total consecration to God,
which the NT expressly states was temporarily given until Christ (Gal 3:19) to reveal sin, not to make righteous (Ro 3:20), for righteousness has always been by faith (Ge 15:6, Gal 3:11, Ro 3:22, 4:1-8).

Only in this way could One substitute His life for anyone's life. By becoming perfectly righteous Himself.
Full obedience to all the Law. He could not just be said to be righteous by being the only righteous, God, but by becoming one of us and being perfectly righteous. The promised Seed of Abraham.

However, Christ was created righteous as was Adam. He did not become righteous, he retained his righteousness by his obedience, rather than sinning it away in his trial, as did Adam.
Christ's obedience to the law did not make him righteous, for the law was not given to make righteous , it was given to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), for righteousness has always been by faith (Gal 3:11, Ge 15:6, Ro 4:1-3).

But the focus and purpose of redemption is not the national/geographic location Israel or the natural descendents of Abraham only and separately from Gentiles, that only concerned keeping the land, the focus and purpose of the covenant of redemption, is salvation by grace through faith in Christ, in all nations and peoples, for those whom God gives to the Son.

The focus and purpose of the Mosaic covenant was to reveal sin, not to make righteous (Ro 3:20), for righteousness has always been by faith (Gal 3:11, Ge 15:6, Ro 3:21-22, 4:1-3).
The focus and purpose of the New Covenant is fulfillment of the promised Holy Spirit (Ac 2:38-39) for salvation by faith alone.

The new covenant is the complete fulfillment of the old covenant by Jesus and Him alone. And it is a covenant with all who believe. By grace, through faith, as promised to Abraham, the Gentile, all those centuries ago.

The temporary Old Covenant, added to the Abrahamic covenant until Christ (Gal 3:19), was given to reveal sin (Ro 3:20).
The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the promised Holy Spirit (Ac 2:38-39) putting his law in our minds and writing them on our hearts, and the forgiveness of sin (Heb 8:12) which is salvation from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9).

 

[Eleanor]

Are you calling the NT word of God a liar in Eph 5:30-32?

Speaking to the Samaritan woman, salvation was of the Jews, not the Samaritans.
Now inform yourself of the rest of the story in the NT epistles.
Salvation is of Jesus, who was a Jew.

As in your refusal to believe the rest of the NT; e.g., Eph 5:30-32.

When God said He was betrothed to Israel forever there were no Gentile Christians, only a few Gentile converts to Judaism.
Gentile believers are grafted in.
God has covenant with Abraham who is father of the Hebrew RACE (although Eber is seen as the father of the Hebrew people) it was the covenant and the sign of circumcision that officially made Abraham 'Hebrew' and separated from the Gentiles. There were three of Noah's sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Shem was chosen by God to eventually bring forth His Son from the tribe of Judah and the other two were the fathers of the Gentile nations.
Israel will be at the Marriage Supper through covenant. Gentiles will be there by invitation.

Non-responsive.