Why Have You Forsaken Me?

[Carbon]

No.

Thank you.

 

[civic]

I answered your question. Did you not read the link.

Matthew 26:56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

John 16:32 A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

He was alone in the sense that his disciples left him (Matthew 26:56), but the Father was always there inseparably present according to the Divine Nature that is in union to the human nature by the Son. And according to the human nature, the son was " crucified in weakness" (2 Corinthians 13:4) and the father "condemned sin in the flesh," (Romans 8:3). I am sure we could give a list of how many weaknesses he was experiencing while on the cross. One of them was psychological weakness "a feeling as if he was being forsaken" not that he was literally forsaken nor did the father forsaken him (John 16:32). He was literally feeling despair in the midst of suffering, he cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me," but yet, through all of this suffering the Father was still there and have not forsaken him.

Psalms 22:24 For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.

Look at the underlying. Obviously, the answer is "No" Jesus Christ was not forsaken.

Hebrews 5:7-8 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

Ditto

 

[ReverendRV]

I answered your question. Did you not read the link.

Matthew 26:56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled." Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

John 16:32 A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

He was alone in the sense that his disciples left him (Matthew 26:56), but the Father was always there inseparably present according to the Divine Nature that is in union to the human nature by the Son. And according to the human nature, the son was " crucified in weakness" (2 Corinthians 13:4) and the father "condemned sin in the flesh," (Romans 8:3). I am sure we could give a list of how many weaknesses he was experiencing while on the cross. One of them was psychological weakness "a feeling as if he was being forsaken" not that he was literally forsaken nor did the father forsaken him (John 16:32). He was literally feeling despair in the midst of suffering, he cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me," but yet, through all of this suffering the Father was still there and have not forsaken him.

Psalms 22:24 For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.

Look at the underlying. Obviously, the answer is "No" Jesus Christ was not forsaken.

Hebrews 5:7-8 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

Can it be true that God was with Jesus while his Disciples abandoned him, and it also be true God wasn't with Jesus when he cited Psalms 22?

Since Jesus grew in Stature and in Wisdom, why couldn't his Heavenly Father forsake him?

 

[Carbon]

Can it be true that God was with Jesus while his Disciples abandoned him, and it also be true God wasn't with Jesus when he cited Psalms 2?

Since Jesus grew in Stature and in Wisdom, why couldn't his Heavenly Father forsake him?

It's becoming obvious that some think Jesus just felt forsaken by the Father, when in fact, he was not. He was just quoting scripture I guess.

 

[ReverendRV]

It's becoming obvious that some think Jesus just felt forsaken by the Father, when in fact, he was not. He was just quoting scripture I guess.

If Jesus had quoted Isaiah 53 while on the Cross, should we prefer to understand Jesus as meaning he was Identifying as the Messiah; without him applying God's Punishment of the Suffering Servant to himself?

The answer is No; we would expect Jesus to Mean God himself was Punishing him. Thus we shouldn't have a good reason to reject God Forsaking Jesus either; except we prefer a Doctrinal Reason over a Scriptural reason

If Jesus had quoted Isaiah saying my Servant will see the Light of Life, would he have been wrong to Name this but not claim this?

 

[Carbon]

It's becoming obvious that some think Jesus just felt forsaken by the Father, when in fact, he was not. He was just quoting scripture I guess.

Nope, I guess Psalm 22 is about nothing that actually happened to Jesus while he was crucified, he was just in the scripture-quoting mood.

My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? - it never happened. He was just quoting scripture.
22:16
For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.

There were no gentiles, (dogs) Roman soldiers, surrounding him.
And his hands and feet weren't pierced either.

None of this happened, it was just there if Jesus needed something to quote.

 

[ReverendRV]

Nope, I guess Psalm 22 is about nothing that actually happened to Jesus while he was crucified, he was just in the scripture-quoting mood.

My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? - it never happened. He was just quoting scripture.
22:16
For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.

There were no gentiles, (dogs) Roman soldiers, surrounding him.
And his hands and feet weren't pierced either.

None of this happened, it was just there if Jesus needed something to quote.

These are great points. I would need a strong Theological reason to accept any Special Pleading which suggests some of Psalms 22 applies to Christ's experience on the Cross, but some of it cannot apply to his experience on the Cross; even when Jesus referenced an allegedly non applicable Verse while being Crucified on the Cross...

Now, there's no one fairer than me; I'm not going to reject any good points out of hand. I'm ready to listen...

 

[Carbon]

These are great points. I would need a strong Theological reason to reject any Special Pleading which suggests some of Psalms 2 applies to Christ's experience on the Cross, but some of it cannot apply to his experience on the Cross; even when he referenced an allegedly non applicable Verse while being Crucified on the Cross...

Now, there's no one fairer than me; I'm not going to reject any good points out of hand. I'm ready to listen...

Psalm 2?

 

[ReverendRV]

Psalm 2?

Ooopps, I'll fix it...

 

[Binyawmene]

Can it be true that God was with Jesus while his Disciples abandoned him, and it also be true God wasn't with Jesus when he cited Psalms 2?

Unless you want to reject certain Trinity and Hypostatic Union frameworks.

Since Jesus grew in Stature and in Wisdom, why couldn't his Heavenly Father forsake him?

Because the Bible says "through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God," Hebrews 9:14.

How can that happen if the Father forsaken him?

 

[ReverendRV]

Unless you want to reject certain Trinity and Hypostatic Union frameworks.



Because the Bible says "through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God," Hebrews 9:14.

How can that happen if the Father forsaken him?

This is interesting. Could this be referencing the Holy Spirit? Do you mean God the Father Offered Jesus to God the Father?

 

[Binyawmene]

This is interesting. Could this be referencing the Holy Spirit?

Uncertain. Some say it's referring to the Holy Spirit and other suggest it's the spiritual Divine Nature.

Do you mean God the Father Offered Jesus to God the Father?

No. "to God" (the Father).

 

[ReverendRV]

No. "to God" (the Father).

That confuses me. I'll have to come back to that later..

 

[Carbon]

This is interesting. Could this be referencing the Holy Spirit? Do you mean God the Father Offered Jesus to God the Father?

He is saying if Jesus was unblemished (which he was) how could the Father forsake him?

Silly question really

 

[ReverendRV]

He is saying if Jesus was unblemished (which he was) how could the Father forsake him?

Silly question really

Oh...

Yeah, God would Forsake Jesus because of Substitution...

 

[Carbon]

Nope, I guess Psalm 22 is about nothing that actually happened to Jesus while he was crucified, he was just in the scripture-quoting mood.

My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? - it never happened. He was just quoting scripture.
22:16
For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.

There were no gentiles, (dogs) Roman soldiers, surrounding him.
And his hands and feet weren't pierced either.

None of this happened, it was just there if Jesus needed something to quote.

@GoKart Mozart whats the Wow about?

 

[GoKart Mozart]

Nope, I guess Psalm 22 is about nothing that actually happened to Jesus while he was crucified, he was just in the scripture-quoting mood.

..None of this happened, it was just there if Jesus needed something to quote.

(the wow is because that comes across as somewhat mocking of Christ on the cross, you asked).

Yes He's praying Scripture but He's not just quoting randomly without purpose.

The Gospel writer tells us what is taking place. It's about the 9th hour, when the Psalms are prayed (then and now), and Christ cries out Psalm 22. Which ironically is referenced by the first line*, the thrust of the Psalm is the opposite of that first line. God has not forsaken the psalmist. You correctly point out that the Psalm also notes other events that are taking place, which gives credence to the fact that He didn't stop at the first line.

*there was no numbering until later. passages were referenced by the first line, like "The Lord is my Shepherd", or later the "Our Father"

 

[Binyawmene]

He is saying if Jesus was unblemished (which he was) how could the Father forsake him?

Silly question really

How's my question silly?

 

[Carbon]

Psalm 22:16
...............A band of evildoers has encompassed me;..............

This part of verse 16 was just put there in case Jesus needed to quote scripture.

There weren't really two evil-doers (thieves) encompassed around him while he was on the cross.

 

[Carbon]

(the wow is because that comes across as somewhat mocking of Christ on the cross, you asked).

Far from it. You don't know what I meant? Wow.

Yes He's praying Scripture but He's not just quoting randomly without purpose.

Okay.

The Gospel writer tells us what is taking place. It's about the 9th hour, when the Psalms are prayed (then and now), and Christ cries out Psalm 22. Which ironically is referenced by the first line*, the thrust of the Psalm is the opposite of that first line. God has not forsaken the psalmist. You correctly point out that the Psalm also notes other events that are taking place, which gives credence to the fact that He didn't stop at the first line.

*there was no numbering until later. passages were referenced by the first line, like "The Lord is my Shepherd", or later the "Our Father"

Where did you copy and paste this from?
Give credit where it is due.