• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

Why Have You Forsaken Me?

Carbon

Admin
Joined
May 19, 2023
Messages
5,206
Reaction score
4,035
Points
113
Location
New England
Faith
Reformed
Country
USA
Marital status
Married
Politics
Conservative
Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?


Here is proof that Jesus was forsaken by the Father while he was on the cross.

I have discussed this with a person who claimed Jesus wasn’t forsaken by the Father, and Jesus was just quoting scripture.
R. C. Sproul once said, in defense of PSA (something like) Jesus wasn't in a verse quoting mood while being crucified.

This person copied and pasted the whole psalm but primarily focused on verse one. The poor guy, imo, I believe he missed and continues to miss so much.
I wish he would come back and discuss the PSA again.

What do you all believe? Jesus was actually forsaken by the Father or was he just quoting scripture?
 
Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?


Here is proof that Jesus was forsaken by the Father while he was on the cross.

I have discussed this with a person who claimed Jesus wasn’t forsaken by the Father, and Jesus was just quoting scripture.
R. C. Sproul once said, in defense of PSA (something like) Jesus wasn't in a verse quoting mood while being crucified.

This person copied and pasted the whole psalm but primarily focused on verse one. The poor guy, imo, I believe he missed and continues to miss so much.
I wish he would come back and discuss the PSA again.

What do you all believe? Jesus was actually forsaken by the Father or was he just quoting scripture?
PERSONAL OPINION: It was Jesus' reaction to the Holy Spirit, who had joined him after John's Baptism, withdrawing, and leaving him alone on the Cross as He became SIN.
 
PERSONAL OPINION: It was Jesus' reaction to the Holy Spirit, who had joined him after John's Baptism, withdrawing, and leaving him alone on the Cross as He became SIN.
Would you explain a little more? Remember, the Father is not the Spirit, the Son is not the Father, etc...
 
It seems in one sense that the Father never left Jesus alone sine He (Jesus) continually did that which was pleasing in the Father's sight (John 8:29).
This would hold true even while He was being our sacrifice.
 
To forsake means to abandon, to desert, to renounce, or to turn away from entirely.

God, being omnipresent, means God was aware of the situation ... the 3 members of the Trinity (God is Spirit) was present.

Christ had to be a substitute for sinners. Christ, unlike us, was born spiritually alive. Christ's human nature (his divine nature cannot die/change) spiritually died (was separated from God) to take the elect's place.
 
To forsake means to abandon, to desert, to renounce, or to turn away from entirely.

God, being omnipresent, means God was aware of the situation ... the 3 members of the Trinity (God is Spirit) was present.

Christ had to be a substitute for sinners. Christ, unlike us, was born spiritually alive. Christ's human nature (his divine nature cannot die/change) spiritually died (was separated from God) to take the elect's place.
His human nature can die. And it did. If he didn’t die then he wouldn’t be truly human.

But as I think we agree Christ was 100% human and 100% God. These makes up his person. So there is some mystery here.
 
Last edited:
Would you explain a little more? Remember, the Father is not the Spirit, the Son is not the Father, etc...
Nothing more to explain. Jesus said what He said, and the Holy Spirit had been with HIM since his baptism. Apparently SOMETHING HAPPENED at that point in time as He was dying, and as He became SIN for us (as the "Sin Offering" and the "Scapegoat"), the Holy Spirit LEAVING HIM would appear to be a reasonable assumption.
 
Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?


Here is proof that Jesus was forsaken by the Father while he was on the cross.

I have discussed this with a person who claimed Jesus wasn’t forsaken by the Father, and Jesus was just quoting scripture.
R. C. Sproul once said, in defense of PSA (something like) Jesus wasn't in a verse quoting mood while being crucified.

This person copied and pasted the whole psalm but primarily focused on verse one. The poor guy, imo, I believe he missed and continues to miss so much.
I wish he would come back and discuss the PSA again.

What do you all believe? Jesus was actually forsaken by the Father or was he just quoting scripture?
I think Jesus was Feeling being Forsaken, and fulfilled the Prophecy from Psalm 2 by really Meaning what he said. God the Father never Essentially forsook God the Son, but by forsaking the son of Mary (the Second Adam); through the Communicatio Idiomatum, God forsook All of Jesus...

If because of the Communicatio Idiomatum, we can rightly say God Died; we can also say God forsook Jesus...

It would be inconsistent to not allow both, and would be Special Pleading by accepting one but not the other...
 
Last edited:
Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?


Here is proof that Jesus was forsaken by the Father while he was on the cross.

I have discussed this with a person who claimed Jesus wasn’t forsaken by the Father, and Jesus was just quoting scripture.
R. C. Sproul once said, in defense of PSA (something like) Jesus wasn't in a verse quoting mood while being crucified.

This person copied and pasted the whole psalm but primarily focused on verse one. The poor guy, imo, I believe he missed and continues to miss so much.
I wish he would come back and discuss the PSA again.

What do you all believe? Jesus was actually forsaken by the Father or was he just quoting scripture?
He was, in his human nature, forsaken by the Father, because he bore our sins and so "became sin" for us. His God nature was not forsaken, because the Trinity cannot be separated.
 
I think Jesus was Feeling being Forsaken, and fulfilled the Prophecy from Psalm 2 by really Meaning what he said.
I agree, but he was felling it because he was forsaken.
God the Father never Essentially forsook God the Son, but by forsaking the son of Mary (the Second Adam); through the Communicatio Idiomatum, God forsook All of Jesus...
:unsure: . . . . . But, Jesus said...Why have you forsaken Me?

If because of the Communicatio Idiomatum, we can rightly say God Died; we can also say God forsook Jesus...

It would be inconsistent to not allow both, and would be Special Pleading by accepting one but not the other...
 
Last edited:
I think Jesus was Feeling being Forsaken,
I think Jesus was feeling it because he was forsaken, the Father turned from Him, allowed his crucifixion, etc...

I don't believe Jesus would have based it on feeling. In other words, I feel I'm being forsaken, therefore I must be forsaken.
 
Would you explain a little more? Remember, the Father is not the Spirit, the Son is not the Father, etc...
Very confusing. Trinity is confusing which is why I like others question it. It's difficult for people to believe in something so ambiguous and contradictory. The Trinitarian triangle shows Jesus is God - but Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Holy Spirit - but Jesus is not the holy spirit, etc.
 
Very confusing. Trinity is confusing which is why I like others question it. It's difficult for people to believe in something so ambiguous and contradictory. The Trinitarian triangle shows Jesus is God - but Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Holy Spirit - but Jesus is not the holy spirit, etc.
Does it never occur to you that God is not like us? Is there really any reason why we should understand what he says about himself?
 
Does it never occur to you that God is not like us? Is there really any reason why we should understand what he says about himself?
I don't believe in anything I cannot understand. I understand who God is, and understand who Jesus is. I just disagree with the Catholic doctrine of trinity. Trinity is not only incoherent, it's the most fabricated and contradictory doctrine in Christianity. Almost 50% of believers now say Trinity is bogus.

Hebrews 2:17 "For this reason he had to be made like them,[k] FULLY HUMAN IN EVERY WAY, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

The hypostatic union destroys the atonement. If Jesus was God that makes him a fraud and the cross a hoax.

The bible says he was tempted IN EVERY WAY AND THAT HE KNEW TEMPTATION. It also says that, "God cannot be tempted and therefore cannot sin."

If Jesus was God that means he could not have sinned anyway. (Back to the only Trinitarian answer of TWO NATURES) That makes the Word of God totally contradictory - makes Jesus a fraud because he never would have to overcome sin since he also being God couldn't have been tempted to sin anyway - ultimately making him a fraud and the cross a complete hoax and the atonement for sin a complete hoax - think about it.
 
I think Jesus was feeling it because he was forsaken, the Father turned from Him, allowed his crucifixion, etc...

I don't believe Jesus would have based it on feeling. In other words, I feel I'm being forsaken, therefore I must be forsaken.
I agree. That's what I meant by his Feeling it...
 
I don't believe in anything I cannot understand. I understand who God is, and understand who Jesus is.
You understand who God is and Jesus is? Are you sure?

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
Roman’s 11.


I just disagree with the Catholic doctrine of trinity.
That doctrine does not belong to the RCC.
Trinity is not only incoherent, it's the most fabricated and contradictory doctrine in Christianity. Almost 50% of believers now say Trinity is bogus.
There is not a man who was ever born that can completely comprehend the Trinity. There is a mystery there. He is God after all.

Almost 50%, really?
What does scripture say about that?

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 2 Timothy 4.

There are some, perhaps many who need a god they can completely understand. They don’t want a God who is beyond their comprehension.

All things we know are revealed by God. But there will always be mysteries about the Almighty!!

Glory to God alone!
 
Very confusing. Trinity is confusing which is why I like others question it. It's difficult for people to believe in something so ambiguous and contradictory. The Trinitarian triangle shows Jesus is God - but Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Holy Spirit - but Jesus is not the holy spirit, etc.
Welcome to CCAM. Please keep the Conversation about Penal Substitionary Atonement (PSA). Of course, Monotheistic Trinitarianism DOES play a part in it...

Can PSA still be true without Jesus having to be God? If so, Anti Trinitarianism shouldn't be used as a Shield to deflect any Apologies for it...
 
Last edited:
You understand who God is and Jesus is? Are you sure?

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
Roman’s 11.



That doctrine does not belong to the RCC.

There is not a man who was ever born that can completely comprehend the Trinity. There is a mystery there. He is God after all.

Almost 50%, really?
What does scripture say about that?

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 2 Timothy 4.

There are some, perhaps many who need a god they can completely understand. They don’t want a God who is beyond their comprehension.

All things we know are revealed by God. But there will always be mysteries about the Almighty!!

Glory to God alone!
There's nothing sound about a teaching that requires the fabrication of a hypostatic union to cover all it its contradictions. The 50% I'm referring to comes from Pew and Barna. It's difficult to decipher the % of people who believe in trinity because most don't understand what the doctrine teaches. IOW lots of people say they believe in trinity but disagree with a host of its tenets.
The doctrine absolutely does come from the RCC and their history proves it.

1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.
2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.
3. Several arguments continued among the Bishops -over 100 of them. They could not resolve multiple contradictions the Trinity or 'Nature of God' presented. Then, because the Bishops of Rome could not resolve these multiple "CO-EQUAL' contradictions, they overcame them in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES...the ultimate Trinitarian cop-out.
 
There's nothing sound about a teaching that requires the fabrication of a hypostatic union to cover all it its contradictions. The 50% I'm referring to comes from Pew and Barna. It's difficult to decipher the % of people who believe in trinity because most don't understand what the doctrine teaches. IOW lots of people say they believe in trinity but disagree with a host of its tenets.
The doctrine absolutely does come from the RCC and their history proves it.

1. Jesus became God in AD325 at the council of Nicaea.
2. The holy spirit became God in AD381 at the council of Constantinople.
3. Several arguments continued among the Bishops -over 100 of them. They could not resolve multiple contradictions the Trinity or 'Nature of God' presented. Then, because the Bishops of Rome could not resolve these multiple "CO-EQUAL' contradictions, they overcame them in AD 451 under Pope Leo the Great. That's when Jesus acquired TWO NATURES...the ultimate Trinitarian cop-out.
There is a proper area for this discussion. It’s not in this thread.
 
Back
Top