• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me? The last words of Christ.

I read, Albert Schweitzer said it was the final grasp of bitter disillusionment of Jesus. According to him, Jesus was driven by an almost monomaniacal vision - His expectation was eschatological, not in the sense of the futuristic, but in the sense of transcendence and divine. Jesus awaited a breakthrough from heaven. - am immediate, sovereign, divine, drama that would establish God's kingdom on earth.
That view, besides rejecting Jesus' divinity, doesn't make sense with the things Jesus said and did and the reasons for doing and saying them that the four gospels give. He avoided being put in the situation of becoming king, and even when he was in Gethsemane he knew he was going to die. It was not disillusionment but submission.
 
Hi thanks

Sorry for any extra work .

Yes, I do not purposely try to commune as if speaking in parables. Familiarity learning to trust one another can take time . I think in that way without parables Christ spoke not

Dropped out school was never interested in reading or writing. Hated English. I should of taken a class forty years ago.
What is your home language?
 
Jesus was forsaken but not abandoned. Jesus knows his hanging on the cross will fulfill all the promises of God.
Yes, he was forsaken. We know that by his words. He was also abandoned, we know this by his words also.

Also, it is not safe to interpret by a passage or even a book, but with all scripture. The OT and the NT.

There is much more to say about this.
 
Last edited:
Schweitzer believed Jesus erred (he was not impeccable). A very influential theologian, but not to be read without caution.
Thanks for your opinion.
 
That view, besides rejecting Jesus' divinity, doesn't make sense with the things Jesus said and did and the reasons for doing and saying them that the four gospels give. He avoided being put in the situation of becoming king, and even when he was in Gethsemane he knew he was going to die. It was not disillusionment but submission.
Amen, brother.

Personally, I do not feel Schweitzer can be trusted. I'd steer clear of him.
 
That view, besides rejecting Jesus' divinity, doesn't make sense with the things Jesus said and did and the reasons for doing and saying them that the four gospels give.
Exactly. It's not like it was all a secret
He avoided being put in the situation of becoming king, and even when he was in Gethsemane he knew he was going to die. It was not disillusionment but submission.
Agreed.,
 
I was pondering that a bit this morning, as I had never heard it expressed as the light of his countenance eclipsed. That is something we do not even experience as we live in the kingdom of darkness in this world. Not even the unredeemed experience it in the here and now. It will probably be what the unredeemed do experience either at death or judgement. It would not be simply dark, but something far worse. God would still be there, but all His sustaining light would be removed.

It would be beyond horrific. No wonder Jesus cried out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
R. C. goes on,

Thus, Paul relates the Cross to the blessed curse motif of the Old Covenant. The concept of curse is very strange to the Westernized Christian and is often a point of confusion to the contemporary reader.
To be cursed is to be from the presence of God, to be set outside the camp, to be cut off from His benefits. The greatest terror to the OT Jew was defilement whereby he would be pronounced "unclean" and driven out of the camp away from God's presence. @Josheb (see abandonment?)
Adam and Eve suffered the curse to a degree when they were driven from the Garden of Eden. The scapegoat of the OT sacrificial system was driven out of the camp into the wilderness after the sins of the nation were symbolically imputed to it by the laying on of hands.
This "separation" from the presence of God was symbolized by the covenant sign of circumcision. The covenant in the OT was not made. Rather it was "cut." The word covenant or berith meaning "to cut." In the rite of circumcision, the Jews bore not only the mark of ethnic separation whereby they were separated to holiness and blessedness but also carried the sign of the curse where, by means of the rite, they declared, "May I be cut off from the presence of God and His benefits if I fail to keep the stipulations (the law) of the covenant.

On the cross, Jesus was cursed. That is, he represented the Jewish nation of covenant breakers who were exposed to the curse and took the full measure of the curse upon Himself. As the Lamb of God, the sin-bearer, he was cut off from the presence of God (abandoned @Josheb ).
On the cross Jesus entered into the experience of forsakenness on our behalf. The darkness and earthquake that accompanied the event suggest the withdrawal of the "light of His countenance."
Thus, the anguish of Christ is not to be found primarily in the ghastly and tortuous pain of the physical method of execution, but rather it is located in the loss of the profound intimacy of relationship that the God-man Jesus enjoyed with God (as you were saying @makesends ).

On the cross, God turned His back on Jesus and cut him off from all blessings, from all keeping, from all grace, and from all peace. Jesus did not die in the temple but was killed outside the Holy City at the hands of "unclean" Gentiles. Jesus was driven from the camp to experience the full horror of the unmitigated wrath of God.
No where in scripture is the reality of God's wrath more sharply manifested than in the forsaking of His Messiah. To be cursed by God is to be cut off from His presence and all His benefits.
The incarnate Christ who enjoyed intimate personal fellowship with the Father, such as no man had ever enjoyed, was suddenly and completely cut off. Once the sin of man was imputed to him, he became the virtual incarnation of evil. The load he carried was repugnant to the Father. God is too holy to even look at iniquity. God the Father turned His back upon the Son, cursing Him to the pit of hell while on the cross. He was the Son's "descent into hell." Here the fury of God raged against Him. His scream was the scream of the damned. For us.


Websters Dictionary 1828

Forsake​


FORSA'KE, verb transitive preterit tense forsook; participle passive forsaken. See Seek .]
1. To quit or leave entirely; to desert; to abandon; to depart from. Friends and flatterers forsake us in adversity.
Forsake the foolish, and live. Proverbs 9:6.
2. To abandon; to renounce; to reject.
If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments - Psalms 89:30.
Cease from anger, and forsake wrath. Psalms 37:8.
3. To leave; to withdraw from; to fail. In anger, the color forsakes the cheeks. In severe trials, let not fortitude forsake you.
4. In scripture, God forsakes his people, when he withdraws his aid, or the light of his countenance.
 
Last edited:
If we can even understand fully then. I don't think even the angels can fully understand it.
I think we will be forever discovering more about that specific part of his love for us. But I'm pretty certain that we will be above the angels in understanding God. Lol, as one of my brothers puts it, they are like puppies, to God.

We are made in the image of God in a way they are not.
 
I think we will be forever discovering more about that specific part of his love for us. But I'm pretty certain that we will be above the angels in understanding God. Lol, as one of my brothers puts it, they are like puppies, to God.

We are made in the image of God in a way they are not.
Wow, I never considered that (y)
 
R. C. goes on,

Thus, Paul relates the Cross to the blessed curse motif of the Old Covenant. The concept of curse is very strange to the Westernized Christian and is often a point of confusion to the contemporary reader.
To be cursed is to be from the presence of God, to be set outside the camp, to be cut off from His benefits. The greatest terror to the OT Jew was defilement whereby he would be pronounced "unclean" and driven out of the camp away from God's presence. @Josheb (see abandonment?)
Adam and Eve suffered the curse to a degree when they were driven from the Garden of Eden. The scapegoat of the OT sacrificial system was driven out of the camp into the wilderness after the sins of the nation were symbolically imputed to it by the laying on of hands.
This "separation" from the presence of God was symbolized by the covenant sign of circumcision. The covenant in the OT was not made. Rather it was "cut." The word covenant or berith meaning "to cut." In the rite of circumcision, the Jews bore not only the mark of ethnic separation whereby they were separated to holiness and blessedness but also carried the sign of the curse where, by means of the rite, they declared, "May I be cut off from the presence of God and His benefits if I fail to keep the stipulations (the law) of the covenant.

On the cross, Jesus was cursed. That is, he represented the Jewish nation of covenant breakers who were exposed to the curse and took the full measure of the curse upon Himself. As the Lamb of God, the sin-bearer, he was cut off from the presence of God (abandoned @Josheb ).
On the cross Jesus entered into the experience of forsakenness on our behalf. The darkness and earthquake that accompanied the event suggest the withdrawal of the "light of His countenance."
Thus, the anguish of Christ is not to be found primarily in the ghastly and tortuous pain of the physical method of execution, but rather it is located in the loss of the profound intimacy of relationship that the God-man Jesus enjoyed with God (as you were saying @makesends ).

On the cross, God turned His back on Jesus and cut him off from all blessings, from all keeping, from all grace, and from all peace. Jesus did not die in the temple but was killed outside the Holy City at the hands of "unclean" Gentiles. Jesus was driven from the camp to experience the full horror of the unmitigated wrath of God.
No where in scripture is the reality of God's wrath more sharply manifested than in the forsaking of His Messiah. To be cursed by God is to be cut off from His presence and all His benefits.
The incarnate Christ who enjoyed intimate personal fellowship with the Father, such as no man had ever enjoyed, was suddenly and completely cut off. Once the sin of man was imputed to him, he became the virtual incarnation of evil. The load he carried was repugnant to the Father. God is too holy to even look at iniquity. God the Father turned His back upon the Son, cursing Him to the pit of hell while on the cross. He was the Son's "descent into hell." Here the fury of God raged against Him. His scream was the scream of the damned. For us.


Websters Dictionary 1828

Forsake​


FORSA'KE, verb transitive preterit tense forsook; participle passive forsaken. See Seek .]
1. To quit or leave entirely; to desert; to abandon; to depart from. Friends and flatterers forsake us in adversity.
Forsake the foolish, and live. Proverbs 9:6.
2. To abandon; to renounce; to reject.
If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments - Psalms 89:30.
Cease from anger, and forsake wrath. Psalms 37:8.
3. To leave; to withdraw from; to fail. In anger, the color forsakes the cheeks. In severe trials, let not fortitude forsake you.
4. In scripture, God forsakes his people, when he withdraws his aid, or the light of his countenance.
I well understand that a word can be used many different ways, unlike some of those on these sites who think "too logically" (for example, taking a word to always mean one thing to translate the same way across the board). But I am curious what you do with Psalm 16:10 "For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol"

As I understand it, that Psalm, and particularly that portion of it, has pretty much always been treated as prophetic concerning Christ.
 
I think we will be forever discovering more about that specific part of his love for us. But I'm pretty certain that we will be above the
angels in understanding God. Lol, as one of my brothers puts it, they are like puppies, to God.

We are made in the image of God in a way they are not.
Are angels not in the church, the body of Christ? (Heb 12:22, Rev 5:11-12), along with the OT saints (Heb 12:23); e.g., Abel (Heb 11:4), Noah (Heb 11:7), Abraham (Ro 4:3)?

If God loves angels as much as I love puppies, the angels are set!
 
And, in my opinion, that was by far the worst of his pain.
makesends: But I am curious what you do with Psalm 16:10 "For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol"
R. C. Wrote: The incarnate Christ who enjoyed intimate personal fellowship with the Father, such as no man had ever enjoyed, was suddenly and completely cut off.

From what you and R. C. wrote helps me understand that the Father turning his back on Jesus and abandoning him, even if it was for an instant, is like eternity to Jesus. I just cannot fathom it.

This should drive us all to our knees. And to think for a second. . . .
R.C. Wrote: "Once the sin of man was imputed to Him, He became the virtual incarnation of evil."
 
Last edited:
Another thought. Just imagine, "if you can," the horror of the substitutionary atonement and how it must have been magnified each time Jesus read the prophecy about Himself.
The suffering Servant in Isaiah 53:10 (Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.) The intimacy of His perfect union with the Father would be cruelly severed.
 
From what you and R. C. wrote helps me understand that the Father turning his back on Jesus and abandoning him, even if it was for an instant, is like eternity to Jesus. I just cannot fathom it.

This should drive us all to our knees. And to think for a second. . . .
Maybe this goes too far into tangential questions, for relevance to the OP, but one speculation about the final destiny of hell and its residents, (the LOF) to me more easily reduces my gall at the thought of loved ones here on earth, or, for the more compassionate among us, the thought of anyone that God created for his purposes, ending with reprobation, being held to that punishment, is the thought that whatever is good about any of us is God's direct work, in his immanence, and his control and its graces, both common and particular.

That "presence" of God being removed, then, leaves nothing but a husk, a wraith. Or as CS Lewis put it, "a horror and a corruption such as you now meet, if at all, only in a nightmare." —all emotion, fear and fury and despair and pain, with no hope of resolution. Christ, who had so far been absolutely ONE with the Father, PART OF the Father, if I may, suddenly his consciousness thrown into that kind of separation. Just to think of it produced agony of soul to the point of sweating blood.

Don't take me to be going too far into that, and its implications. While I am sure there is truth to it, I know it is only ignorance and speculation and not itself Scripture, built on the notion of the only good in anyone being God himself (in some way).
 
Back
Top