Why Did Our Redeemer Need to be Both God and Man?

[Arial]

@Soldier of Christ1516


The various branches of unitarianism deny the deity of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit, saying only the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is not a personal being. This, I believe, is because of very little understanding of what it is that Christ came to do and did. I cannot speak for how exactly they are looking at the cross and the sacrifice of Jesus, as I can get none to answer when I ask. But it cannot have any depth but must be rather flat, limited to some degree to a simple definition," He died for the forgiveness of my sins." Which of course is true, but there is much more behind the scenes, that is revealed in His word.

There is a wealth of glory and beauty and power and love, in God sending His Son and the Son paying the price of redemption, and the Holy Spirit placing persons in Christ. A great deal to learn about God in understanding what took place in the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus, when we see exactly how far down He stooped to rescue a people from the world of darkness. And in learning that it is something only God Himself could do, something far outside the reach of a created man who was no different than ourselves.

To think of Jesus as a mere man and not both man and God, it seems to me, would be the direct result of a very cursory view of God. The words ascribed to Him such as omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, even sovereign may well be acknowledged, but are not given any consideration in arriving at doctrine or theology. Not only that, but the idea of mankind is placed above that which it is. Both views are inaccurate according to Scripture and distort the person and work of Jesus.

We need to see God as He is self revealed. As He revealed Himself to Israel, in fact, in His actions in history. He juxtaposed Himself with the many gods of the other nations. They were made of wood. They could not act, see, hear, or move. They were deaf and dumb and without life. They were not gods, he said, and there was only one God, and He was that God. He showed Himself to govern and direct every aspect of creation and to be the Creator of it all, from the mountains, to the weather to kings to peoples and stars and the sun and moon. He made water to come from stone, and food rain down from heaven. He divided the sea and stopped the sun, even moved it backwards.

Since we have the whole story of redemption (which is the whole story of the Bible) from Genesis through Revelation, we can go to the conclusion to discover what the end game is and exactly what Jesus came to do. And from there we can return to the beginning and find out why only the God-man could accomplish that purpose. Rev 21:1-7 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God himself will be with then as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away." And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." And he said t me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

We see here in the end result that it is not only that Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins, but something far more. He came to conquer death and sin. Not just cover over them or remove them from persons. And in doing so, restore the entire creation that was subjected to futility because of our sin. (Romans 8:18-25)

So now we must go back to the beginning to see exactly what happened, and then perhaps we can keep everything in the "middle" in line with these two things, as constant, consistent forward movement from the need of redemption and from what, to arrive at the conclusion. It is important to note here that even though we can go to the beginning, there was a lengthy spam after creation and the fall, when none of this was known, unless God had personally revealed it to some or by word of mouth. It was not written until Moses wrote it, and He wrote it for Israel of course, but also for any and all who would read it.

To be continued.

 

[fastfredy0]

Why Did Our Redeemer Need to be Both God and Man?​

For God's will is so much the highest rule of righteousness that whatever he wills, by the very fact that he wills it, must be considered righteous. When, therefore, one asks why God has so done, we must reply: because he has willed it. But if you proceed further to ask why he so willed, you are seeking something greater and higher than God's will, which cannot be found. Let men's rashness, then, restrain itself, and not seek what does not exist. John Calvin
God is the first cause and therefore there is no WHY when referring to God as there is nothing to affect Him.

 

[grace2]

Why Did Our Redeemer Need to be Both God and Man?

Redeemer is Jesus' God, His Father.

Not Jesus.

 

[Arial]

OP continued.

In Gen 1 and 2 we see the ordered account of all that God created. We see Him declare that it is good and very good. We see a plurality in those involved in creation, and our first hint of a triune God, which it must be stressed is not tritheism, in the repetition of "Let us---" The Holy Spirit is actually identified as being present, and is seen, as is always the case in Scripture, as involved in actions that are in unity with God, but also distinct. And since we have the entire story from beginning to end, we can also find Christ as being present. ( John 1:1-5, 10, 14-18; 1 Cor 8:6;Col 1:16; Heb 1:2) This alone would make Him eternally existent and deity.

It is in the creation account that we see the permanent, never changing relational position with God and mankind. God is Creator and therefore what He creates comes from Him, exists only in Him, and is subject to Him. He is perfect in all He is, all He creates, all He does. Completely set apart from (outside of) and sovereign over all that He creates. He is All, creation and created beings are less than, yet reflects His glory and perfection, and is subject to Him. In all His creation only one is created in His image and likeness and that is mankind. So what does that mean?

It means that humans were created to bear His moral image, doing what is right in Him in all they do and say and think, first to Him and second in relationships, not only with other humans, but also with the creation itself. They were given the duty to care for it. He is holy, and we are to be holy. That did not change with the fall. And Adam and Eve were capable of doing this for it was all they knew---until they ate of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

In Gen 3 we have the account of the fall, and we are introduced to the serpent, later in Scripture identified as Satan, the deceiver, the father of lies. Adam and Eve became sinners, and every human who came after were now, not holy beings, but sinful beings. We see this connection in 1 Cor 15:20-21 and Romans 5:19 the headship of Adam, or his being the representative of all mankind. It could be said, "As Adam goes, so goes all mankind."



How far did we fall? A little bit, or all the way? And if all the way, from what exactly did we fall? We fell into sin of course, but it is from the personal presence of God that we fell out of. It is our spiritual life with Him that we lost, when Adam and Eve were kicked out of their dwelling place with Him. The serpent became our father, the one we obeyed. And we had no way of escape. No way to change ourselves and become restored to God. But not all hope was lost, for in Gen 3:14-15, God cursed the serpent and made a promise. "The Lord God said to the serpent, 'Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall crush your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

This set off a war that raged until the coming Seed arrived, lived in perfect obedience to the Father, took the just punishment for sin upon Himself, for those who believe, died, rose again, ascended back to the Father. (John 17). In doing this He did not simply remove the sins of those for whom He died. He did what He came to do. Conquer sin and death once for all.

So now that we know the condition that man is in, and we know where the redemption in Christ is leading us, and we know that it is Christ who does the redeeming, why does He have to be God and man?

The redemption comes about because of the substitutionary death of Jesus taking the place of the sinner. The blood of bulls and rams in the Sinai covenant substituted their death for the death of the sinner. But it could not conquer death, and it could not change the heart of a man to clear his conscience. It held things in stasis so to speak until the Seed would come.

This substitute must be of the same type as the one it substitutes for in order to undo what Adam did to all mankind. Therefore he also has to be of greater value than the created being or creature, in himself. He had to have as much value as God Himself. He had to be eternal and self existent as God is for that is the highest value, and it is to God that He is reconciling the sinner. He had to himself be eternal in order to cover the debt for eternal life that is owed. He had to not only pay for the sins of the believer but for the very imputed sin on Adam. The creature who was in Adam by nature had to be taken out of Adam and become a new creation in the Redeemer. And not only that, to effect a whole new creation , the old having been subjected to the effects of our sin, one in which sin and therefore death and sorrow do not exist, death had to be conquered, destroyed. Mankind is the cause. He cannot affect the cure.

So when Christ, who came as one of us, laid down His life for His sheep, He could not be a creature laying down His life for the creature. He had to be far, far greater than that. What Jesus, Son of God, Son of man, came to do was destroy evil and death once and for all. It all hinges on His death and His resurrection, the first fruits of those raised from the dead. He died the death. He rose again to life. When He returns, having finished the death of death, the dead in Christ will rise to life and those who remain will be changed, in the twinkling of an eye. Corruption will put on incorruption and mortality will put on immortality----something we did not have at creation. (1 Cor 15:20-28, 50-57; 1 Thess 4:13-18)

 

[Arial]

​

Redeemer is Jesus' God, His Father.

Not Jesus.

You're supposed to read the OP before you make a statement, so you will be able to actually interact with it.

 

[grace2]

You're supposed to read the OP before you make a statement, so you will be able to actually interact with it.

Your premise is already wrong.

there is no room to discuss it.

I don't entertain, false claims.

with your lengthy posts, there are tons of false messages.

 

[Arial]

Your premise is already wrong.

there is no room to discuss it.

I don't entertain, false claims.

with your lengthy posts, there are tons of false messages.

How would you know? You don't read them. You know they will not be what you want to believe and do believe so you say they are wrong. You don't engage at all ever with anyone. Future posts like that in this thread will be deleted. It is called trolling to disrupt a thread.