What is : Imputed Righteousness

[Ghada]

The words salvation/saved/save are used in different senses in the scriptures

Not in the gospel of Jesus Christ. One doctrine and salvation of Jesus Christ.

The subject of God's "so great salvation" (Hebrews 2:3), as it is revealed to us in the Scriptures and made known in Christian experience, is worthy of a life's study.​

Only if you're trying to make it another kind of salvation of your own.

Otherwise, it's worthy of repenting from sinning, and doing the will of God instead.

For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

The hallmark of other gospels is to make the simple much more complicated.

Anyone who supposes that there is now no longer any need for him to prayerfully search for a fuller understanding of the same, needs to ponder, "If any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know"​

If you're going to talk about someone else's teaching. Do it with them.

That which is most needed by all of us in order to a better understanding of Divine things is not a brilliant intellect ~ but a truly humble heart and a teachable spirit, and for that we should daily and fervently pray~for we possess it not by nature.​

The only humble heart God sees is one that repents of sinning against Him.

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

The subject of Divine salvation has, sad to say, provoked age-long controversy and bitter contentions even among professing Christians.​

Not with me. If we repent of all our sinning for His sake, He gives us a new heart and life conformed to His Son.

If we repent not, He doesn't save nor justify us by our own belief alone.

Some have insisted that salvation is by Divine grace, others have argued it is by human endeavor.​

True. Those insisting it's by divine grace alone without repenting, are cut off on the left. Those who insist it is by doing good enough alone without grace, are cut off on the right.

Only those repenting of sinning to believe God from the heart, are forgiven of all past sins and saved by grace.

A number have sought to defend a middle position, and while allowing that the salvation of a lost sinner must be by Divine grace, were not willing to concede that it is by grace alone,​

Those insisting it's by divine grace alone without repenting, are cut off on the left.

alleging that God's grace must be plussed by something from the creature,​

You mean added to our faith?

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Those who are nonplussed to trust in their on faith alone, don't add to their faith to ensure they are saved unto the end, and raised from the dead unto life.

holding out faithful to the end, etc.​

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

I count 2 direct oppositions to the Bible in a row.

It is a bible truth that the Church of God was blessed with super-creation blessings, being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, and predestinated unto the adoption of children, and nothing could or can alter that biblical truth.​

Calvin? You're prechosen Calvin? Calvin was actually a holiness preacher, who said proof of 'pre' choosing is in the life lived.

It is equally true that if sin had never entered the world, none had been in need of salvation from it.​

True

But sin has entered, and the Tabernacle of David (the very elect) fell in Adam and came under the curse and condemnation of God's Law.​

No, any man that sins falls to the condemnation of God. No one not sinning is fallen and condemned by God. Jesus never sinned nor fell nor was condemned by God for it.

"In Adam all die" (1st Corinthians 15:22),​

Subtill. Just one word off.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

As Adam sinned and died to God, so any man sinning as Adam, dies to God.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Only by man sinning, does sin enter into this world. Only by angels sinning, does sin enter into heaven.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

All it takes is for one person sinning, for sinning to enter into this world. Both now and during Christ's kingdom on earth. That's why His scepter of righteousness is a rod of iron to cut off all such sinning. Sin may entered His kingdom on earth, but it won't be allowed to reign.

"By the offense of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation" (Romans 5:18).​

... and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

so that the members of the mystical Body of Christ are "by nature (only) the children of wrath, even as others" (Eph. 2:3), and hence they are alike in dire need of God's salvation.​

Yes. Mystical. I don't believe in the gospel of mysticism.

How many, for example, would be capable of giving a simple exposition of the following texts, "Who has saved us" (2nd Timothy 1:9).​

From sinning.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12),​

And sin not.

"Now is our salvation nearer than when we believed" (Romans 13:11).​

The Lord is coming to save not only the soul and life in this world, but also the body in the world to come.

How did I do?

Now those verses do not refer to three different salvations—​

Same salvation for three conditions of man: Soul purified, life blamelessly lived, and physical body resurrection.

but to three separate aspects of one and unless we learn to distinguish sharply between them, there can be nothing but confusion and cloudiness in our thinking~much like you are between Ephesians 2 and Titus three. Those passages present different distinct phases and stages of salvation—salvation . . .​

A lot of words just to say being saved by grace is not the same as being saved by mercy. Which of course is confusion and cloudiness brought in, just to say no works have anything to do with being saved and justified by Christ.

Some insist they are already saved, and deny that they are now being saved.​

True.

Some declare that salvation is entirely future, and deny that it is in any sense already accomplished.​

True.

However, you appear to contradict yourself. First you deny already being saved, then preach salvation already accomplished.

(I'm not thinking I want to hear word play on how to split hairs to no purpose.)

 

[Ghada]

The fact is, that the great majority of professing Christians fail to see that "salvation" is one of the most comprehensive terms in all the Scriptures, including election, predestination, regeneration, justification, sanctification and glorification~each one of there are found in all of the different phrases of salvation for the most part.​

Nope. Just two parts: By repentance, there is an instant election, predestined conformity, regeneration, justification, and sanctification from sins.

By doing good unto the end, there is the reward in a twinkling moment, of glorification of the spirit and body in the likeness of Jesus' resurrection.

Were one to tell them that salvation is a protracted process,​

Being saved unto the end is, by enduring all temptations without sinning like Jesus. Sanctification is in an instant upon repentance from all sins and crucifying the old life for His sake

they would view him with suspicion; and if he affirmed that salvation is something awaiting us in the future, they would at once dub him a heretic.​

Not me. Salvation and redemption of the body, is the hope of reward for overcoming temptation and pleasing the Father unto the end.

Just as Jesus did. Including on the cross.

Ask the average Christian, Are you saved,​

Yes I am. I'm walking with Jesus with a pure heart, and sinning not.

Ask him, to what do you owe your salvation?​

Jesus dying for my past sins, and me repenting of my sins. Jesus rising again from the dead, and me with power of His resurrection to not now sin and die to God.

and "the finished work of Christ" is the sum of his reply. Tell him that each of those answers is seriously defective, and he strongly resents your aspersion.​

Haven't you preached being saved and trusting only in His finished work on the cross? I must have you confused with others, that separate their 'faith' from their works.

As an example of the confusion which now prevails, we quote the following from a tract on Philippians 2:12, "To whom are those instructions addressed? The opening words of the Epistle tell us—'To the saints in Christ Jesus' . . . Thus they were all believers! and could not be required to work for their salvation, for they already possessed it."​

All the words of God are written for believers, but not all believe.

Alas that so very few today perceive anything wrong in such a statement. Another "Bible teacher" tells us that "save yourself" (1st Timothy 4:16) must refer to deliverance from physical ills, as Timothy was already saved spiritually.​

True. We can save our bodies by healthy living, but the soul is saved by doing good.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

 

[ChristB4us]

I hope you realize it is not the mechanism of the believer that saves them. Faith is only as good as the object to which it is directed, which must of course, be Christ.

True since Christ does save.

And the truth is that the Father is how and why we do believe in Jesus Christ since faith comes by hearing the word and faith being a fruit of the Spirit; whereby also at the same time the Holy Spirit comes by the hearing of the word. Yet not everyone that hears believes.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I thank the Father in Jesus's name that He has led me to believe in His Son Whom He has revealed His Son to me so that I can believe and be saved by Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Baker]

Not trying to create a rabbit trail but showing how it is by believing in the name of the only begotten Son is when they are saved since those who do not believe are what? Condemned already.. as in not saved.

So how can they be saved before they hear the gospel? How can this part of the verse 18 be true without clarifying that they may be saved but have not heard the gospel yet? There is no such testimony in scripture.

First, you like so many use the words save/saved/salvation in only one sense, at least you are here, which limits one's understanding of the scriptures and leads to one holding to a false view on many scriptures. You are using them in salvation from sin and condemnation only which makes it hard for you to see the biblical truth on so many scriptures and not to mention, makes it hard for those correcting people like you since your mind is going only in one direction, trained in that one direction by holding to a limited understanding of words used by the Spirit of God to show forth His truth. Have you ever been ask by someone~when were you saved? I have, and so have most others.

This common question tries to pin eternal life down to some act at some point in time. Is this Biblical? Did the apostles ever ask this question? How would they answer such a question? Weren’t we all saved at the cross?​

Let’s ask Paul the question.​

Paul said he was saved before the world began (2nd Tim 1:9), when Jesus came into the world (Ist Tim 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (Ist Tim 4:16), and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom. 13:11).

Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ.

Since God saves sinners in stages, or phases, we must not limit salvation to just one idea or one event at one time. Paul saw his own salvation occurring in five phases.

It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (2nd Tim 3:1 – 4:4). They prefer fables over truth, so the true doctrine of salvation has been almost lost from the earth.

Everyone talks about “getting saved,” but no one can explain it from the Bible. There are “invitations” and “decisions” and “methods” for salvation, but none of these words or ideas are from the Bible.

This being said, you are misusing John 3:16-18 when John is doing nothing more than making a declaration of a bible truth~as we explain above already. So, John is not speaking about when one is saved and the means of, but an evidence that clearly separates God's children from those that are condemned already.

Whether or not you mean to do so or not (God will be your Judge ) you are being very deceitful in presenting God's word and by doing so, you are corrupting its truths by adding your work gospel into the spiritual birth of a child of God.

And like it or not, there are testimonies of those refusing the gospel and yet sometime down the road they believe in him, even on their deathbeds they call on Him to save them. And so they were not saved until they did believe in Him to call on Him to save them.

I have no problem with men rejecting the truth and later on, maybe even on their deathbed, asking God to be merciful to them, no problem at all~that being said, if any one ever asked God to be merciful to them at the hour of death, then it was at that point or very close thereof, the Spirit of God quickened their hearts and resurrected them from being dead in sin to life in Jesus Christ, it still is not owing to their power to believe, for many more such people on their deathbed left this world as they live their life, in hardness and unbelief.

Well, not that I would make this argument, but it would not surprise me that some may try to say that is why and how the O.T. saints were in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise but I would say since Paradise aka Abraham's bosom was located originally beneath the earth, for why He descended to preach unto those in that "prison" and after His ascension is why the apostle John now found Paradise in the Third Heaven, This proves that they needed Christ to bring them to God the Father in Heaven for there was no other way.

That's another subject for another day. I reject all of that RCC heresy that's closely connected with their doctrine of purgatory. All saints went to heaven when they left this world~just as Enoch and Elijah did! It surprise me how so many have fallen for RCC fables and how closely they are to them in many doctrines. Maybe another thread is needed.

I'll pass on the rest of your post since it has nothing to do with imputed righteousness. You are welcome to start a thread on this subject I'm sure.

 

[Red Baker]

Nope. Just two parts: By repentance, there is an instant election, predestined conformity, regeneration, justification, and sanctification from sins.

By doing good unto the end, there is the reward in a twinkling moment, of glorification of the spirit and body in the likeness of Jesus' resurrection.



Being saved unto the end is, by enduring all temptations without sinning like Jesus. Sanctification is in an instant upon repentance from all sins and crucifying the old life for His sake


Not me. Salvation and redemption of the body, is the hope of reward for overcoming temptation and pleasing the Father unto the end.

Just as Jesus did. Including on the cross.


Yes I am. I'm walking with Jesus with a pure heart, and sinning not.



Jesus dying for my past sins, and me repenting of my sins. Jesus rising again from the dead, and me with power of His resurrection to not now sin and die to God.



Haven't you preached being saved and trusting only in His finished work on the cross? I must have you confused with others, that separate their 'faith' from their works.

All the words of God are written for believers, but not all believe.



True. We can save our bodies by healthy living, but the soul is saved by doing good.

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

Have a nice life it seems that you believe you are all set~for you said: "Yes I am. I'm walking with Jesus with a pure heart, and sinning not."

 

[ChristB4us]

This common question tries to pin eternal life down to some act at some point in time. Is this Biblical? Did the apostles ever ask this question? How would they answer such a question? Weren’t we all saved at the cross?

Let’s ask Paul the question.​

Paul said he was saved before the world began (2nd Tim 1:9),

Did he?

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Reads here that we were saved at the time of that holy calling; the gospel.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Reads also here that the purpose & grace, the idea for that holy calling of Jesus Christ was from the onset before the world began.

That does not at all testify to us being saved before the world began.

when Jesus came into the world (Ist Tim 1:15),

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Several key points to accept; the purpose for Jesus Christ to come into the world to save sinners would refute how you were applying 2 Timothy 1:9 to mean about us being saved before we heard the gospel.

The other point of truth here is that His incarnation was for that purpose of giving His life as a ransom for many and so His coming into the world is not the method of our salvation, but believing in Jesus Christ is when we are saved which the born again of the Spirit was to take place after His crucifixion and after His ascension into Heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5),

How and when has the Spirit regenerated Paul?

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

So far, you are applying these scripture out of context to from this teaching of yours.

when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (Ist Tim 4:16)

In context; 1 Timothy 4th Chapter KJV Paul is "indirectly" referring to being saved from what is coming on the earth due to the falling away from the faith as mentioned directly in these latter days in 2 Thessalonians 2nd Chapter KJV as Peter was directly in 2 Peter 3:3-15 KJV

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;... 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So the salvation Paul & Peter is talking about for enduring to the end is about being saved from what is coming on the earth at the pre great tribulation rapture event when God judges His House first to avoid being left behind to die of those living at the time the Bridegroom comes.

, and would be saved sometime in the future (Rom. 13:11).

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. 13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

This exhortation is also in light of the coming judgment on the House of God which the Bridegroom will bring at any given moment.

Indeed death can strike a believer engaging in sinful lifestyle for why believers need His help to abide in Him daily in laying aside every weight & sin, casting off the works of darkness so as to walk in the light in fellowship with the father & the Son to be saved from the wrath to come..

Can you believe it? Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation.

No. I do not believe that at all. Hopefully you can see why by now.

And this is the key to understanding our wonderful salvation in Jesus Christ.

Since God saves sinners in stages, or phases, we must not limit salvation to just one idea or one event at one time. Paul saw his own salvation occurring in five phases.

Doesn't this scripture below limit that time of salvation as to that specific day for which cause the ministry of preaching the gospel is current?

2 Corinthians 6:1We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

 

[Mr GLee]

I have never used the word "drag", yet it takes the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead, to do the same for a sinner who is dead in trepasses and sins! Ephesians 1:19,20.

Also, we do not receive the Spirit of God after we hear the word of the gospel, we must have Him before we we can hear, believe and receive.

We receive the power of faith both to hear and to do . . . all together one work of God. . . . displaying his good pleasure to the whole world. Some like Jonah murmured kicked against the pricks and wanted to die knowing Gods living word has an outcome ("let there be" and the gospel outcome "it was good")

Jesus the Son of man did the two fold will, empowered by the father (hear and do) doing it with delight.

The gospel key is both.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

God is not served by the hands aa will of dying mankind .He has no needs but satisfies all his needs

 

[Ghada]

I see repentance from unbelief by believing in Him is how we are saved

I know that. It's never taught in the Bible. It's just your human philosophy that avoids repenting of deeds.

I'll try once more for you and repeat myself.

Nowhere in the Bible does God ever say repenting is of 'unbelief' nor of 'the mind' nor of 'thoughts'. The only repentance God speaks of in the Bible is of works and deeds.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent,

Nothing about repenting of 'unbelief'. The context is of having slain the Lord. Repent of the deed. The only time God clarifies what to repent of, is of dead works, transgressions, evil doing, hasty and lying words, idols, sinful ways, wickedness, fallen works, false teaching, etc...

You are preaching a gospel repentance of your own making, in order to save and justify yourself by your own mind and thoughts alone.

It is a gospel for hearers only, who now have their minds changed about sinning, but not doing the word and changing their hearts from sinning.

Once saved, then discipleship begins.

True, for them that repent of their dead works from the old heart, in order to have faith toward God from a new heart of Christ.

This same Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles of repenting from unbelief

Your words, not God's.

by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins.

Having a heart to believe God and do His will, is only from a heart repented of not doing His will by trasngression.

to be continued...

Either begin to address the same point I've made to you several times, and show any Biblical fault in it, then I'll be moving on.

I don't waste time following along people talking to themselves alone.

 

[Ghada]

I believe you are conflating the simplicity of the gospel with discipleship.

I see you are still avoiding points I make from the verses, by shifting over to something else. Either show the point I make is not reasonable from the verses I give, or I'll be moving on.

You have to be saved first before you can live by faith in Jesus Christ as His disciple in looking to Him daily to lay aside every weight & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

True, we must repent of our dead works to have faith toward God and walk with Him daily in His light.

Besetting sins are of the double hearted not yet repented of all their dead works. Being hearers only, they now know they still walk in darkness, and also now wretchedly know the true light of the word condemns them.

You preach still walking in darkness for the light. You preach not repenting from the works of darkness, while being in the light by faith alone.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

"Mind repentance' is not walking anywhere, except in the vain imagination of one's own mind.

Let us refer to your scripture in context;

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

This is about after salvation where we are to go on to perfection; hence discipleship as in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ daily.

There is no faith toward God, discipleship, walking, nor to perfection, while still doing dead works.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is only good news to them that first repent of sins and trespasses against Him.

The only faith of them that repent not first, is that of hearers only who have their own kind of faith about sin and God, and only walk in the light of their own minds alone.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Make no mistake; Jesus Christ still abides in former believers

The Christ of your mind, yes. Not the Christ of my heart. And certainly not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

even though they will deny Him verbally for why He will deny them;

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him.
As we see you and your doctrine is all about your own mind and words, that have nothing to do with the Bible.

No unrepented sinner is believing God while denying Him in sinful deeds.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

 

[Ghada]

I have one for you that you and I can discuss:

I don't skip arguments to move on to new ones, only to have my new arguments skipped again.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Christ is not the maker of sin in any flesh nor babe in the womb. Christ lightens every man coming into the world. He does not darken them with a carnal mind.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Christ is not the tempter of man to sin, by making man nor his flesh with any lust nor sin in it.

You've passed this argument without comment. When you want to address it and agree, or show any error in it, then we can move on to another argument.

 

[Ghada]

The only person debating between you and myself is me, you are the one playing games, and refusing to support your corrupt gospel. You play children's games with folks you think you can win, and others you just avoid, much like the Pharisees did with Christ and John. Matthew 11:16; Luke 7:31. You're just going through the motion of thinking you are defending truth, when in fact, you pick and chose and find fault with everyone who may bring certain truths to you.

I have one for you that you and I can discuss:


I for one think it is for every person who has been pricked in their hearts by the word of God, every man of God when he sees such people should say just what Peter said to the Jews:


I dare say you do not even have a clue why Peter said what he did, and what he meant by saying what he did.

I have no idea what sect you are from, but guessing by your posts and the way you speak/write I would guess Eastern Orthodox Church, you talk just like they do, and defend scriptures much like they do ~ so, I'm pretty sure you are lost as to what Peter meant by saying what he did. But, be as it may be, nevertheless, all folks who have another gospel at the end sound much alike, they defend the power of man's free will to please God, over and above the gospel of Jesus Christ, where he alone please God in thoughts, words and deeds from conception to death on the cross as a surety for the very elect.

Acts 2:38 is actually very simple to understand to any God called man of God ( including godly women ).

By comparing scriptures with scriptures we understanding perfectly why Peter said what he did, and what he meant by saying those words recorded for us in Acts 2:38, which are much debated scriptures, but only by those who do not have the truth, yet see an opportunity to play on sound bites to support their work gospel, for false prophets look for such scriptures more than they do for the true biblical sense of the holy scriptures.

In Acts seven when Stephen preached one of the most powerful sermons ever recorded in the scriptures much more powerful than the one found in Acts 2, the men that heard Stephen were not pricked in the hearts, but just the opposite is said of them which we read:

These men were not pricked in their hearts, but were cut to the hearts by their hatred and rejection of the scriptures.

So, in Acts 2, Peter being a man of God and knowing the true evidence of one that has been born of God .........they asked Peter and his companions in true sorrow for their sin............. men and brethren what shall we do?

Peter said to these folks that ask~, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." The meaning is clear: Peter understood that such people who in true sorrow for their past sins, should repent....the reason why is.... "FOR" or because of....gave true signs of having their sins already forgiven! Or, they would have never been pricked in their hearts, impossible. Once they repented and were baptized into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ, then they would receive the KNOWLEDGE OF the indwelling Spirit of God that caused them to be pricked in their hearts to begin with! Thank you Lord, for giving your children light and understanding and for hiding the same from those who pervert your word. All of God children said~Amen, and amen.

"For" is used in the sense ..."because of," ( see Mark 1:44 ) not in order to obtain! Peter knew well what he was saying and why he was saying what he did. Do you know? I think not.

A lot of words to try and disannul the need of repenting of dead works, in order to have saving faith toward God.

Without repenting of all our sins and trespasses first, no man is given the promised NT faith and new heart by God, to be washed, saved, justified, and sanctified with Jesus to do His will.

 

[Ghada]

I believe you are conflating the simplicity of the gospel with discipleship. You have to be saved first before you can live by faith in Jesus Christ as His disciple in looking to Him daily to lay aside every weight & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Having our minds changed about sin and God by hearing the word, is being a hearer only. Repenting with the heart from sinning against God, is doing the word.

 

[ChristB4us]

I know that. It's never taught in the Bible. It's just your human philosophy that avoids repenting of deeds.

Explain why a woman walked away from Jesus because she believed she had to clean up her life first before coming to & believing in Jesus Christ. What does that tell you? That she wants to repent but has trouble repenting and she is dismayed that she has to wait for salvation until she does break her habits of sinning.

So I told her she can come to Jesus Christ as she is and that He will deliver her from her sins and not just give her eternal life.

She did not believe me. The next day, she had talked to someone else and she declared that I was right and there was joy of the Lord in her.

You, yourself testified that you knew of sinners being delivered from their sins that have no more trouble with that sin and yet you fail to connect what I am saying here. Either the sinner is repenting from their sins or Jesus is delivering the believer from their habitual sins for why they are not having trouble with that sin or those sins any more.

But not all believers are free of habitual sins for why they can go to Him daily trusting him to lead them away from temptation & delivering them from the evil one, as Jesus taught us to pray to the Father for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

I'll try once more for you and repeat myself.

Nowhere in the Bible does God ever say repenting is of 'unbelief' nor of 'the mind' nor of 'thoughts'. The only repentance God speaks of in the Bible is of works and deeds.

I am surprised you have not called "foul" when God the Father sent the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles for believing in Him for the remission of sins.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Seeing how our believing in Jesus Christ is the work of the Father is why we are saved by grace and not be anyone's professed deeds of repentance from all sins. I am not saying that there is no repentance after salvation for I believe that is what we are to do with our faith in Jesus Christ in living that reconciled relationship with God the Father by. That is what running that race as His disciple is about.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Nothing about repenting of 'unbelief'. The context is of having slain the Lord. Repent of the deed. The only time God clarifies what to repent of, is of dead works, transgressions, evil doing, hasty and lying words, idols, sinful ways, wickedness, fallen works, false teaching, etc...

Oh come on. He was crucified for the charge of blasphemy for declaring Himself to be God as in the actual Son of the living God therefore the sin is they did not believe in Him for why they had Him crucified.

So the call to repentance from unbelief in Him is by believing in Him.

You are preaching a gospel repentance of your own making, in order to save and justify yourself by your own mind and thoughts alone.

Reads like you are the one making the case for it in regards to salvation; as you have been arguing against believing in Him is not enough for salvation.

It is a gospel for hearers only, who now have their minds changed about sinning, but not doing the word and changing their hearts from sinning.

Of those that know what sin is doing in their lives as they hate what it is doing in their lives, sure, but discipleship is for reading His words to know what is sin and most believers do not know that to put off a good deed for tomorrow ad doing it not is sin.

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
I know I needed Him to do good the other day when I was prompted to explain something to someone in the case that it was taken the wrong way by someone else. I ignored it and was out the door but mitigating circumstance led me back in and found myself there with that opportunity to do it. Whether or not the Lord caused the increase I do not know, but there it is.
That is what trusting the Lord Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd to do in helping me do the will of the Father.

True, for them that repent of their dead works from the old heart, in order to have faith toward God from a new heart of Christ.

If they repented from all dead works, have they reached their perfection yet? No. So discipleship is an ongoing work of the Lord in us after salvation. Those that are aware of the immediate deliverance of habitual sins, may find other sins that His words will reprove them of for doing, like lusting after a married woman even though you are not committing adultery with her, BUT that is already committing adultery in your heart in according to His words. See?

Your words, not God's.

Then explain the difference in how the Jews received their remission of sins and the Gentiles.

Having a heart to believe God and do His will, is only from a heart repented of not doing His will by trasngression.

Having faith in order to believe in Jesus Christ is the work of the Father.

Either begin to address the same point I've made to you several times, and show any Biblical fault in it, then I'll be moving on.

I don't waste time following along people talking to themselves alone.

Then apply John 1:12-13 to what you are preaching about needing to repent from all sins in order to be saved.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

We have to be born again of the Spirit with Jesus Christ in us to even begin running that race in living a life of repentance daily in walking in the light with the Father & the Son.

Salvation is separate from discipleship and sinners need to know that whatever sins has dominion over their lives; they can hope in Jesus to deliver them from their sins and not just for eternal life by believing in Him..

 

[ChristB4us]

I see you are still avoiding points I make from the verses, by shifting over to something else. Either show the point I make is not reasonable from the verses I give, or I'll be moving on.

The verses you used are for discipleship. They do not testify that by doing those things will earn you salvation but by going unto perfection.

Here is your reference again;

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Then you said this:

"Having our minds changed about sin and God by hearing the word, is being a hearer only. Repenting with the heart from sinning against God, is doing the word."

To wit now I see why you are using that reference and therefore misapplying what that verse is to mean.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

You are seeing dead works as sins.

Paul is writing to the Hebrew as in Jews that believe in Jesus Christ. The dead works for obtaining righteousness by the law is dead.

True, we must repent of our dead works to have faith toward God and walk with Him daily in His light.

For Jews... repenting from trying to earn salvation by keeping the laws of Moses by believing in Jesus Christ.

Now let us talk about unrepented sins.... as the thorns and briers they would be.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

The earth as in the believer has eternal life in them but if they do not move on to perfection by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily, but just live their lives and forget about relating to Jesus on a daily basis, then the storms of their lives may overcome them as they sow to the flesh in reaping corruption rather than trusting Jesus not to let them go astray.

So are they not saved? Are they losing salvation? No. It is a matter of going to Jesus Christ for help to discern and to depart from iniquities

Because Jesus is coming to judge His House first if you want to know what that fire does in that day at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

So read the next scripture as in alignment with Hebrews 6:7-8 for what we sow on that earth as the same as what we build on that foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Believers living in sin that do not want to be left behind & get stripes from the father for not being ready, should go to Jesus now to deliver them from their sins to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son in running that race in moving unto perfection.

Hebrews 12:1-11 KJV < ---- failure to not run that race and to not to resist sin can be found here and it has everything to do with your reference in Hebrews 6:1

This is why salvation is by the grace of God and not by our repenting from all sins since those left behind at the rapture are still saved, but it is to the profit of all believers to run that race to avoid that scourging for not resisting sin by not looking to Jesus Christ for help to do that.

 

[Mr GLee]

I know that. It's never taught in the Bible. It's just your human philosophy that avoids repenting of deeds.

I'll try once more for you and repeat myself.

Nowhere in the Bible does God ever say repenting is of 'unbelief' nor of 'the mind' nor of 'thoughts'. The only repentance God speaks of in the Bible is of works and deeds.

God is not served by the dying hands as a will of mankind. God does all the work of turning us to hear and do his good will.

Works according to his deeds. He performs that which he appoints to us (Job 23) no man can turn Him. Yoked with him our burdens are lighter

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

There is no work dying mankind can do outwardly to those dead in their trespass and sin without power to repent. (turn)

If you need something to make you feel saved. . Just say you read the Bible.

There are two turning in order to repent the creatures. First not accustomed to hearing the gospel the word of salvation .(1) God gives us ears to hear. Once we have heard he (2) empowers us to it to his good pleasure. Both hear and do one work

Jeremiah 31:18I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: (one) turn thou me, and I shall be (2) turned; (power of commandment )for thou art the Lord my God. (Powerful enough to turn) Surely after that I was turned, (By God) I repented; and after that I was instructed,( By God) I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

 

[Ghada]

You will have to learn how the term 'imputed' captures something that goes against our logic, even a bit of a scandal.

When defined by unrepented sinners to justify themselves, it's against the logic of God and man, and is the scandal of hypocritical religion, that both God and man clearly sees and knows of.

The definition of being imputed to have something, without doing it, is called vain imagination in the Bible, and delusional by man.

It's like claiming the imputed skill of fishing, and yet can't hit the water with a fishing line from a pier.

Or the imputed professionalism of golf, and can't hit the ball into the air for more than 10 feet.

As they say, "He's a legend in his own mind."

You are using the term righteousness as though always accomplished by humans (believers).

Doing right is not 'accomplished', it's done. We don't 'accomplish' telling the truth, we do it.

What you mean by 'accomplishing', is what God calls doing the truth always.

What you are talking about is doing the truth sometimes, but do not 'accomplish' doing the truth all the time.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

The righteousness of God is actually quite different and is not something we do or experience,

If you say so. The righteousness of God is not what you do nor experience doing. However it is what His righteous saints and sons do all the time.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

You are simply speaking as an unrepented sinner with your own Christian religion, and not as a repented saint in Christ Jesus.

This is why you openly proclaim your continued differences with the God of the Bible, and teach a different doctrine than Christ. Indeed to you oppose His doctrine in order to teach your own.

The righteousness of God is actually quite different and is not something we do or experience,

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[EarlyActs]

When defined by unrepented sinners to justify themselves, it's against the logic of God and man, and is the scandal of hypocritical religion, that both God and man clearly sees and knows of.

The definition of being imputed to have something, without doing it, is called vain imagination in the Bible, and delusional by man.

It's like claiming the imputed skill of fishing, and yet can't hit the water with a fishing line from a pier.

Or the imputed professionalism of golf, and can't hit the ball into the air for more than 10 feet.

As they say, "He's a legend in his own mind."



Doing right is not 'accomplished', it's done. We don't 'accomplish' telling the truth, we do it.

What you mean by 'accomplishing', is what God calls doing the truth always.

What you are talking about is doing the truth sometimes, but do not 'accomplish' doing the truth all the time.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.


If you say so. The righteousness of God is not what you do nor experience doing. However it is what His righteous saints and sons do all the time.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

You are simply speaking as an unrepented sinner with your own Christian religion, and not as a repented saint in Christ Jesus.

This is why you openly proclaim your continued differences with the God of the Bible, and teach a different doctrine than Christ. Indeed to you oppose His doctrine in order to teach your own.



Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Hi, please do one topic per post thanks, I get totally lost:

re scandal
The thing is that it is called a scandal: it is the rock that causes men to stumble or rock of offense. Rom 4 adds: "God...who calls things that are not as though they were." This is extremely important because of Rom 9's "Israel pursued the righteousness of God as though it were by works (against reality) and not by faith."

There are two aspects of salvation that matter here:
1, justification: God's act for us in Christ to clear our past debt
2, transformation: God's work in us through the Spirit about ongoing sin

If these are confused or if one is deleted, you don't have NT theology.

The term imputed is very powerfully used in Western literature since Shakespeare, always against obvious fact. I can post several examples. This understanding comes from NT theology as rediscovered by the Reformation.

 

[EarlyActs]

When defined by unrepented sinners to justify themselves, it's against the logic of God and man, and is the scandal of hypocritical religion, that both God and man clearly sees and knows of.

The definition of being imputed to have something, without doing it, is called vain imagination in the Bible, and delusional by man.

It's like claiming the imputed skill of fishing, and yet can't hit the water with a fishing line from a pier.

Or the imputed professionalism of golf, and can't hit the ball into the air for more than 10 feet.

As they say, "He's a legend in his own mind."



Doing right is not 'accomplished', it's done. We don't 'accomplish' telling the truth, we do it.

What you mean by 'accomplishing', is what God calls doing the truth always.

What you are talking about is doing the truth sometimes, but do not 'accomplish' doing the truth all the time.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.


If you say so. The righteousness of God is not what you do nor experience doing. However it is what His righteous saints and sons do all the time.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

You are simply speaking as an unrepented sinner with your own Christian religion, and not as a repented saint in Christ Jesus.

This is why you openly proclaim your continued differences with the God of the Bible, and teach a different doctrine than Christ. Indeed to you oppose His doctrine in order to teach your own.



Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

re accomplished
Not everything we have is done by us. Ever heard of 'third party providers'? Christ is that, a mediator between God and Man. He provided a righteousness for justification (not for sanctification) that man needed but could not provide or produce, the infinite and perfect righteousness of God Rom 3:21.

 

[Ghada]

What will eventually happen is that you will have no way to embrace Rom 7, and the contradiction of life.

And I thank God for it. I've been in Romans 7, but never 'embraced' it for life. You are literally speaking of embracing the wretchedness of double heartedness, as a 'beautiful' contradiction of life.

Sounds like the liberal Christian version of 'embracing' our differences with God, and be happy homosexuals.

You are literally saying that your life is a contradiction to the word of God, and you 'embrace' it, rather than just repent and do what you now know to do by hearing the word of God.

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Romans 7 is to be repented of and delivered from to go on to Romans 8. Romans 7 is not God's 'wink' at being doubleminded with Him. It's not a recipe for embracing the hypocritical contradiction of life, that pleases not God.

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained...

We who are believers strive to live rightly out of honor to God for the Gospel, but the righteousness of God is not those acts.

True. It's called man's religion of trying to sin less than before, but never doing the righteousness of God, and being righteous as He is righteous.

The religion of now knowing to do good in the mind, but not doing it from the heart, is the wretchedness of Romans 7. (Unless of course one learns to 'embrace' it as a happy and gay contradiction of life)

It's promoted only by those that know we ought to repent first, but do not. They choose an alternative gospel of going straight to faith to be saved, bypassing the Bible gospel of repenting of dead works first.

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

[EarlyActs]

When defined by unrepented sinners to justify themselves, it's against the logic of God and man, and is the scandal of hypocritical religion, that both God and man clearly sees and knows of.

The definition of being imputed to have something, without doing it, is called vain imagination in the Bible, and delusional by man.

It's like claiming the imputed skill of fishing, and yet can't hit the water with a fishing line from a pier.

Or the imputed professionalism of golf, and can't hit the ball into the air for more than 10 feet.

As they say, "He's a legend in his own mind."



Doing right is not 'accomplished', it's done. We don't 'accomplish' telling the truth, we do it.

What you mean by 'accomplishing', is what God calls doing the truth always.

What you are talking about is doing the truth sometimes, but do not 'accomplish' doing the truth all the time.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.


If you say so. The righteousness of God is not what you do nor experience doing. However it is what His righteous saints and sons do all the time.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

You are simply speaking as an unrepented sinner with your own Christian religion, and not as a repented saint in Christ Jesus.

This is why you openly proclaim your continued differences with the God of the Bible, and teach a different doctrine than Christ. Indeed to you oppose His doctrine in order to teach your own.



Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

When defined by unrepented sinners to justify themselves, it's against the logic of God and man, and is the scandal of hypocritical religion, that both God and man clearly sees and knows of.

The definition of being imputed to have something, without doing it, is called vain imagination in the Bible, and delusional by man.

It's like claiming the imputed skill of fishing, and yet can't hit the water with a fishing line from a pier.

Or the imputed professionalism of golf, and can't hit the ball into the air for more than 10 feet.

As they say, "He's a legend in his own mind."



Doing right is not 'accomplished', it's done. We don't 'accomplish' telling the truth, we do it.

What you mean by 'accomplishing', is what God calls doing the truth always.

What you are talking about is doing the truth sometimes, but do not 'accomplish' doing the truth all the time.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.


If you say so. The righteousness of God is not what you do nor experience doing. However it is what His righteous saints and sons do all the time.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

You are simply speaking as an unrepented sinner with your own Christian religion, and not as a repented saint in Christ Jesus.

This is why you openly proclaim your continued differences with the God of the Bible, and teach a different doctrine than Christ. Indeed to you oppose His doctrine in order to teach your own.



Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

re the righteousness of God
Apparently you are not familiar with Romans. There is an objective (outside of us, in Christ) righteousness that is needed for justification (Rom 1, 3-5, 8). There is also an inner change because of this gift.

The debt of a person's sin cannot be overcome by something that would happen within them. Transformation is certainly within them, but justification from past sin is more in the category of dealing with debt. That is why the key verb about the righteousness of God is credited or imputed or accounted--something very different from inner change, but which still matters.

It is safe to say from 2 Cor 5, that we cannot know the Gospel without knowing that account transferring is going on. "God made Him to be sin, so that we could become the righteousness of God in Him." Christ did not actually sin; and in the gift of justification, we do not actually become perfect in righteousness for our court case in heaven. Both were imputed.

You could compare the two to the light and heat of the sun. They are not the same. There can be cold heat, and there can be warm darkness. Of course, the combination is wonderful, but they remain two separate things.