What is : Imputed Righteousness

[Red Baker]

Being saved by grace in Eph 2 is not the same 'truth', as being saved by mercy in Titus 3? It is.

The salvation mentioned in Ephesians two has been explained and covered in above.

Even when we were by nature children of God's wrath ( by nature only ) during the days of living in the flesh, we were loved by God, yet maybe not yet regenerated, nevertheless loved, and at some point during the period of our conception and before death of our bodies the Spirit of God must need to visit us and impart spiritual life to us, at God's appointed time.

Luke 19:5-9~"And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house. And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully. And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner. And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham."

A true spiritual son, a true Jew, one of the election of grace. The salvation mentioned in Ephesians two was totally secured by the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ~Romans 5:12-19 by the obedience of one!

Now, let us look at Titus three.

Titus 3:1-6~"Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

There is not a word about our salvation before we were even born into this world as Ephesians two teaches~in Ephesians 2:4-7.
In Titus three Paul is exhorting believers to be gentle and showing meekness unto all men, because they at one time, were just like men of this world, who are foolish, disobedient, deceived serving divers lust, and pleasures, while being hateful and hating one another, before God's mercy quickened them to life and changed their way of living. It was not they themselves who made them whom they were, it was God's mercy that made them different from others around them, thereby, they should be very careful to maintain good works.

Paul reminded them that it was not by works of righteousness which they had done that separated them from others, but God's mercy to them made that separation. The means which they/we are born again is by washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost~or, through Jesus' blood/death and the Spirit of the living God creating within them a new man, after the image of Jesus Christ Because they are now the children of God, they should be careful to maintain good works.

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace.

Salvation here just like Ephesians two by God's grace, yet Paul was exhorting them to live like those who are indebted to God's mercy for changing them from being being foolish, disobedient, and deceived.

Therefore, the works are the same truth that pertain to salvation. The subject of salvation and works is the same, and the one truth of God in Eph 2 is made clear in Titus 3: The works in Eph 2 only pertain to our past righteous works, which we have done without Christ.

Our own righteousness of the past does not commend any man to God's salvation. Being saved by God is only by present repentance from dead works to have the faith of Jesus.

That's an oxymoron statement! The men of God throughout the scriptures clearly states men by nature do nothing but sin, void of all righteousness, why would they even suggest that our past righteousness has anything to do with one being born a again? Even in Titus three Paul clearly teaches what men are by nature: "foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another"....

To suggest Paul was teaching that man's past righteousness did not contribute to his salvation is an oxymoron statement. He was teaching that no work of righteousness that man thinks he can perform and must do before he is born again, is the means of receiving God's mercy and being born again. Works of righteousness are any works that said: "This do and live, sin and die eternally"

You in vain labor to limit man's own works of the past which is not even what Paul is saying ~ you do so, so you can add certain other works in the plan of Salvation from sin and condemnation....like faith, repenting, baptism, and others.

 

[Ghada]

The remission of sins initially for the believer in Jesus Christ is repenting from unbelief by believing in Him;

This is not the gospel I preach from the Bible. So, let's look at the difference between your gospel and Christ and mine:

The Bible never speaks of repenting with the mind, nor of thoughts, but only of works of lust and transgression.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Having our minds changed about sin and God by hearing the word, is being a hearer only. Repenting with the heart from sinning against God, is doing the word.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

No one is forgiven and saved by my God, until we repent of our sins and trespasses. Just changing our mind about how bad it is and against the Lord, doesn't cut it, nor does my Christ circumcise the heart of any unrepented sinner still doing such things against Him.

Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

hence only regards to salvation.

Hence only regards to another salvation men's minds, not of my Christ with a new heart.

This was the call to repent was about as given to the Jews by Peter that were pricked in their hearts for crucifying Jesus in unbelief.

Put the Bible away, It's obviously not for you, but just for the Jews.

Because of the convoluted message given in Acts 2:38,

Definitely put the Bible away, because it's convoluted to you.

It's only convoluted to you, because it does not agree with you.

some believe water baptism in Jesus's name brought this remission of sins, but not so. This same Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles as he did to the Jews on how that remission of sins was to come about.

Not according to you. You say he preaches repentance of works only to Jews, but only changing the mind to Gentiles.

Now that's convoluted, not the Bible.

My God's commandment to men everywhere to repent and be forgiven, reconciled, and saved by my Christ, is of works, not just of thoughts alone.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

The gospel of faith alone is just about thoughts alone, not about the life lived. It's a doctrine made specifically for unrepented sinners naming the name of their Christ, and thinking in their minds they are saved and justified by thoughts alone.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

No one is believing on my Jesus and converted by Him, without first repenting of sins and trespasses.

The best way to destroy the gospel of of the Bible, is quote it piecemeal for our own purposes and not take all the gospel together.

So the call to repent to the Jews was for the Jews that had crucified Him in unbelief, to repent of that unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ.

Back to the Jews only gospel.

Now reconciled with God through Jesus Christ and with Jesus Christ in us, we have hope in Him for following him in living that life of repentance by running that race as a saved disciple by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Beautiful. But without repenting of sinning to be reconciled and saved by Him, it's just another pretty speech.

I do see repentance of unbelief by believing in Him is the only requirement for salvation

That's abundantly clear. And I do see mind change alone is hearing only.

And by my responses it is abundantly clear we don't preach the same gospel, nor likely live the same life in righteousness and true holiness.

It's not possible to walk uprightly before the my Lord blamelessly, without first repenting of all our old transgressions and sins.

and yet a life of repentance by faith in Jesus Christ is required for discipleship

Repentance of all sins and trespasses is unto salvation in the Bible and my gospel.

My Christ doesn't have any continued unrepented sinners 'discipling' on how to sin less but never cease from sinning altogether.

in following Him as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God the Father by faith in Jesus Christ, and thus through Jesus Christ.

No sinning trespasser is reconciled to my God, nor has the faith of the Jesus I know, nor is doing so though Him.

Whosoever is born of God is not committing sin; for his seed is remaining in him: and he cannot be sinning, because he is born of God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.

Only what we are doing now is who we are of, whether doing righteousness of God, or doing unrighteousness of the devil.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

All the pretty speeches aside, in my Bible no one that is now doing such unrighteous things is righteous with my Lord, nor inheriting His kingdom.

If more Christians naming the name of Christ, would just repent of their sinful deeds, and not just what they think about them, then more Christians would be going on to be saints in Christ Jesus sinning no more, rather stuck in just another sinners' religion made by man.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.
This is my gospel of my Christ and God, and I don't believe any other that says doing less evil and more good than before, is sufficient and worthy to be resurrected from the dead to inherit the everlasting kingdom of my Lord.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[Ghada]

The salvation mentioned in Ephesians two has been explained and covered in above.

By you to cover you. Not to me.

The only slightly different 2 truths with the Bible, is the one truth of the Bible, and the subtly changed truth of others wanting to change the Bible.

Even when we were by nature children of God's wrath ( by nature only ) during the days of living in the flesh, we were loved by God, yet maybe not yet regenerated, nevertheless loved, and at some point during the period of our conception and before death of our bodies the Spirit of God must need to visit us and impart spiritual life to us, at God's appointed time.

A true spiritual son, a true Jew, one of the election of grace. The salvation mentioned in Ephesians two was totally secured by the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ~Romans 5:12-19 by the obedience of one!

Now, let us look at Titus three.

There is not a word about our salvation before we were even born into this world as Ephesians two teaches~in Ephesians 2:4-7.
In Titus three Paul is exhorting believers to be gentle and showing meekness unto all men, because they at one time, were just like men of this world, who are foolish, disobedient, deceived serving divers lust, and pleasures, while being hateful and hating one another, before God's mercy quickened them to life and changed their way of living. It was not they themselves who made them whom they were, it was God's mercy that made them different from others around them, thereby, they should be very careful to maintain good works.

Paul reminded them that it was not by works of righteousness which they had done that separated them from others, but God's mercy to them made that separation. The means which they/we are born again is by washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost~or, through Jesus' blood/death and the Spirit of the living God creating within them a new man, after the image of Jesus Christ Because they are now the children of God, they should be careful to maintain good works.


Salvation here just like Ephesians two by God's grace, yet Paul was exhorting them to live like those who are indebted to God's mercy for changing them from being being foolish, disobedient, and deceived.

That's an oxymoron statement! The men of God throughout the scriptures clearly states men by nature do nothing but sin, void of all righteousness, why would they even suggest that our past righteousness has anything to do with one being born a again? Even in Titus three Paul clearly teaches what men are by nature: "foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another"....

To suggest Paul was teaching that man's past righteousness did not contribute to his salvation is an oxymoron statement. He was teaching that no work of righteousness that man thinks he can perform and must do before he is born again, is the means of receiving God's mercy and being born again. Works of righteousness are any works that said: "This do and live, sin and die eternally"

You in vain labor to limit man's own works of the past which is not even what Paul is saying ~ you do so, so you can add certain other works in the plan of Salvation from sin and condemnation....like faith, repenting, baptism, and others.

I don't participate in one sided conversations with people talking to themselves.

If you're not going to respond the teaching points of others nor my specific challenges, then that's fine by me. You teach what you got, and I'll do the same for me. But I don't play pretend at having a two-sided conversation and debate.

 

[ChristB4us]

This is not the gospel I preach from the Bible. So, let's look at the difference between your gospel and Christ and mine:

The Bible never speaks of repenting with the mind, nor of thoughts, but only of works of lust and transgression.

I see repentance from unbelief by believing in Him is how we are saved as given by Peter in two incidents in the Book of Acts; first to the Jews;

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Once saved, then discipleship begins.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

This same Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles of repenting from unbelief by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Salvation has come to the Gentiles and then discipleship has began where they are water baptized in Jesus's name, becoming His disciples.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

to be continued...

 

[ChristB4us]

continued from post # 144

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Having our minds changed about sin and God by hearing the word, is being a hearer only. Repenting with the heart from sinning against God, is doing the word.

I believe you are conflating the simplicity of the gospel with discipleship. You have to be saved first before you can live by faith in Jesus Christ as His disciple in looking to Him daily to lay aside every weight & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

Let us refer to your scripture in context;

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

This is about after salvation where we are to go on to perfection; hence discipleship as in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ daily.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If anyone fell away, there is no need to go through all of that in the beginning as mentioned in verses 1-3, because that person is still saved as it is impossible for Him to save that believer again les we crucify the Son of God afresh, meaning, there is no need for that.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

The earth has received blessings from God as the believer has also, but what we build on that foundation as in what we sow either to the works of the flesh or to the fruits of the spirit, will be judged, thus life is still in that earth as that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ can never be removed. That fire will remove the thorns and the briers as it would remove the wood, stubble, and hay off of that foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

See how the thorns and the briers are burned off of the earth that has received the rain hence life just as the wood, stubble and hay is burned off of that foundation but the spirit is saved in verse 15 in spite of incurring physical death for defiling the temple of God in verses 16-17?

This is why Jesus Christ as the Bridegroom is judging His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event, receiving His disciples found abiding in Him & willing to go as vessels unto honor in His House whereas He denies and thus excommunicate the workers of iniquity from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven, thus they become reprobate, disqualified, and therefore the vessels unto dishonor that are In His House for NOT departing from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come..

Make no mistake; Jesus Christ still abides in former believers even though they will deny Him verbally for why He will deny them;

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

But that is why we are to call even former believers and not just believers living in sin to go to Jesus for help to discern and to depart from iniquity before He comes so they too can obtain that eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in his House at the rapture.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

And so salvation is separate from discipleship; if any saved believer desires to be fruitful and their joy full & not be a cast away as in left behind when the Bridegroom comes, they need His help to trust Jesus Christ as their Good Shepherd & Friend to help them to follow Him by destroying the works of the devil in our lives, and to help us lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh ) & the sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. This is not done by making and keeping a commitment to Christ but by faith in Christ only.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[Red Baker]

If you're not going to respond the teaching points of others nor my specific challenges, then that's fine by me. You teach what you got, and I'll do the same for me. But I don't play pretend at having a two-sided conversation and debate.

The only person debating between you and myself is me, you are the one playing games, and refusing to support your corrupt gospel. You play children's games with folks you think you can win, and others you just avoid, much like the Pharisees did with Christ and John. Matthew 11:16; Luke 7:31. You're just going through the motion of thinking you are defending truth, when in fact, you pick and chose and find fault with everyone who may bring certain truths to you.

I have one for you that you and I can discuss:

This was the call to repent was about as given to the Jews by Peter that were pricked in their hearts for crucifying Jesus in unbelief.

Put the Bible away, It's obviously not for you, but just for the Jews.

I for one think it is for every person who has been pricked in their hearts by the word of God, every man of God when he sees such people should say just what Peter said to the Jews:

Acts 2:37,38~"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I dare say you do not even have a clue why Peter said what he did, and what he meant by saying what he did.

I have no idea what sect you are from, but guessing by your posts and the way you speak/write I would guess Eastern Orthodox Church, you talk just like they do, and defend scriptures much like they do ~ so, I'm pretty sure you are lost as to what Peter meant by saying what he did. But, be as it may be, nevertheless, all folks who have another gospel at the end sound much alike, they defend the power of man's free will to please God, over and above the gospel of Jesus Christ, where he alone please God in thoughts, words and deeds from conception to death on the cross as a surety for the very elect.

Acts 2:38 is actually very simple to understand to any God called man of God ( including godly women ).

By comparing scriptures with scriptures we understanding perfectly why Peter said what he did, and what he meant by saying those words recorded for us in Acts 2:38, which are much debated scriptures, but only by those who do not have the truth, yet see an opportunity to play on sound bites to support their work gospel, for false prophets look for such scriptures more than they do for the true biblical sense of the holy scriptures.

In Acts seven when Stephen preached one of the most powerful sermons ever recorded in the scriptures much more powerful than the one found in Acts 2, the men that heard Stephen were not pricked in the hearts, but just the opposite is said of them which we read:

Acts 7:51-54~"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth."

These men were not pricked in their hearts, but were cut to the hearts by their hatred and rejection of the scriptures.

So, in Acts 2, Peter being a man of God and knowing the true evidence of one that has been born of God .........they asked Peter and his companions in true sorrow for their sin............. men and brethren what shall we do?

Peter said to these folks that ask~, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." The meaning is clear: Peter understood that such people who in true sorrow for their past sins, should repent....the reason why is.... "FOR" or because of....gave true signs of having their sins already forgiven! Or, they would have never been pricked in their hearts, impossible. Once they repented and were baptized into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ, then they would receive the KNOWLEDGE OF the indwelling Spirit of God that caused them to be pricked in their hearts to begin with! Thank you Lord, for giving your children light and understanding and for hiding the same from those who pervert your word. All of God children said~Amen, and amen.

"For" is used in the sense ..."because of," ( see Mark 1:44 ) not in order to obtain! Peter knew well what he was saying and why he was saying what he did. Do you know? I think not.

 

[ChristB4us]

The only person debating between you and myself is me, you are the one playing games, and refusing to support your corrupt gospel. You play children's games with folks you think you can win, and others you just avoid, much like the Pharisees did with Christ and John. Matthew 11:16; Luke 7:31. You're just going through the motion of thinking you are defending truth, when in fact, you pick and chose and find fault with everyone who may bring certain truths to you.

I have one for you that you and I can discuss:

Thank you for including me in your conversation with Ghada.

I for one think it is for every person who has been pricked in their hearts by the word of God, every man of God when he sees such people should say just what Peter said to the Jews:

I dare say you do not even have a clue why Peter said what he did, and what he meant by saying what he did.

I dare say that what you had posted to Ghada, you may have unwittingly picked it up by appearance. Why go there unless to pick a fight by getting personal? Indeed, this quote below which was under my quote was not anything Ghada had replied to me about.

"Put the Bible away, It's obviously not for you, but just for the Jews."

Were you insinuating that is pretty much what Ghada is about or did you accidentally inserted your reply in a quote? At any rate, The Bible is not for the Jews.

I have no idea what sect you are from, but guessing by your posts and the way you speak/write I would guess Eastern Orthodox Church, you talk just like they do, and defend scriptures much like they do ~

Guess again. Not of the Eastern Orthodox Church. And I do not represent any church since we are to be disciples of Jesus Christ.

so, I'm pretty sure you are lost as to what Peter meant by saying what he did. But, be as it may be, nevertheless, all folks who have another gospel at the end sound much alike, they defend the power of man's free will to please God, over and above the gospel of Jesus Christ, where he alone please God in thoughts, words and deeds from conception to death on the cross as a surety for the very elect.

I do not defend the power of men's free will when the Father has to draw men unto the Son per John 6:44 to reveal His Son to us per Matthew 11:25-27 thus manifesting our believing in Him is a work of God per John 3:18-21 since faith came by hearing the word of God and the Holy Spirit came when Gentiles heard the word of God, and so with faith being the fruit of the Holy Spirit, our believing in Jesus Christ is a work of God at the hearing of the gospel.

Acts 2:38 is actually very simple to understand to any God called man of God ( including godly women ).

By comparing scriptures with scriptures we understanding perfectly why Peter said what he did, and what he meant by saying those words recorded for us in Acts 2:38, which are much debated scriptures, but only by those who do not have the truth, yet see an opportunity to play on sound bites to support their work gospel, for false prophets look for such scriptures more than they do for the true biblical sense of the holy scriptures.

In Acts seven when Stephen preached one of the most powerful sermons ever recorded in the scriptures much more powerful than the one found in Acts 2, the men that heard Stephen were not pricked in the hearts, but just the opposite is said of them which we read:

These men were not pricked in their hearts, but were cut to the hearts by their hatred and rejection of the scriptures.

So, in Acts 2, Peter being a man of God and knowing the true evidence of one that has been born of God .........they asked Peter and his companions in true sorrow for their sin............. men and brethren what shall we do?

Peter said to these folks that ask~, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." The meaning is clear: Peter understood that such people who in true sorrow for their past sins, should repent....the reason why is.... "FOR" or because of....gave true signs of having their sins already forgiven! Or, they would have never been pricked in their hearts, impossible. Once they repented and were baptized into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ, then they would receive the KNOWLEDGE OF the indwelling Spirit of God that caused them to be pricked in their hearts to begin with! Thank you Lord, for giving your children light and understanding and for hiding the same from those who pervert your word. All of God children said~Amen, and amen.

"For" is used in the sense ..."because of," ( see Mark 1:44 ) not in order to obtain! Peter knew well what he was saying and why he was saying what he did. Do you know? I think not.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
You can read Peter's speech from the beginning as there is no listing of other sins for which the House of Israel had committed for them to be pricked in their hearts for doing to repent from. If you were given that speech, what sins would you be pricked in your heart for if you apply it to mean what you are doing as referring to all sins?
And what about the cause and effect for this repentance is to bring about remission of sins? There is only one gospel and Peter preached the same gospel to the Gentiles as He did for the Jews for how that repentance was to come about.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Do you cry "Foul" when the Holy Ghost came on these Gentile believers for believing in Him to receive the remissions of sins? It is not like the Gentiles were given a whole lists of sins for them to repent of, being not followers of the law like the Jews, but to repent from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. That same cause and effect has to be the same for the Jews since there is only one gospel.

Thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ & His help, I understand what Peter had said in order for that one gospel to be the same for the Gentiles.

Anyway, I forgive you for coming down hard on me since you were coming off of that discussion with Ghada, but do know that other members do pick up that attitude of not serving one another in meekness, leaning on the Lord Jesus Christ to cause the increase. Yes, even myself at times can be too straightforward that the Lord has to check my attitude at the door since this iron sharpen iron ministry is His.

We prophesy ( edify ) in part and know in part and so His love should be key in any exchange in these discussions in the forum.

Have a blessed day.

 

[Red Baker]

You need to read my post again, I was not even talking to you but to Ghada. You got everything confused, by not following what I said and to whom I was talking to. Go back to bed and get up and start all over, next time around you should do better.

 

[Red Baker]

"Put the Bible away, It's obviously not for you, but just for the Jews."

Were you insinuating that is pretty much what Ghada is about or did you accidentally inserted your reply in a quote? At any rate, The Bible is not for the Jews.

I'll be short since I'm leaving to go out of town.

I never said the scriptures are for the Jews only.

Guess again. Not of the Eastern Orthodox Church. And I do not represent any church since we are to be disciples of Jesus Christ

I was not talking to you, but to Ghada.

I do not defend the power of men's free will when the Father has to draw men unto the Son per John 6:44 to reveal His Son to us per Matthew 11:25-27 thus manifesting our believing in Him is a work of God per John 3:18-21 since faith came by hearing the word of God and the Holy Spirit came when Gentiles heard the word of God, and so with faith being the fruit of the Holy Spirit, our believing in Jesus Christ is a work of God

And what about the cause and effect for this repentance is to bring about remission of sins?

.

Well, right here you are supporting free will to a degree whether or not you want to admit it ~ by bringing it into the back door instead of the front.

Faith does indeed come by hearing and hearing by the world of God, but regeneration does not come by the means of hearing the word of God. Faith is indeed the fruit of the indwelling Spirit of God, and only those born again have the power to hear, see, and understand.

The Gentiles..... Cornelius in particular, was born again before Peter ever arrived to bring the truth of the gospel. Believing the gospel being preached only manifest where there is life, or death still reigning. 2nd Timothy 1:10

And what about the cause and effect for this repentance is to bring about remission of sins?

Explain yourself more, not sure what you are trying to say. The only cause of remission of our sins legally would be the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Do you cry "Foul" when the Holy Ghost came on these Gentile believers for believing in Him to receive the remissions of sins?

Their faith was not the cause of their remission of sin. Listen to Peter carefully:

Acts 10:35~"But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

If a person fear, and worketh righteousness ( just like Cornelius was already doing before Peter arrived ) is accepted, not will be !

What Peter did was to bring the KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THEIR SINS HAD BEEN FORGIVEN!

I got to go, be back later.

 

[ChristB4us]

I'll be short since I'm leaving to go out of town.

Okay.

I never said the scriptures are for the Jews only.

Well, I reckon that quote of mine with that comment underneath my quote was in a quote, but not sure where you had gotten that one from.

I was not talking to you, but to Ghada.

Okay. What post # was that comment under my quote was from that supposedly Ghada had possibly stated that? Because I clicked on that quote of mine to take me to it and he did not say that in that post if that was a comment given by him. So kind of made me think you inserted your comment in there as some times posters accidentally do in replying to a post, although usually, they make all of their comments like that in that post they are making.

So. Kind of a mystery here.

Well, right here you are supporting free will to a degree whether or not you want to admit it ~ by bringing it into the back door instead of the front.

I do not see how when the Father has to "drag" the sinner to the Son to reveal His Son to them as our believing in Him is from that faith which is a fruit of the Spirit for how after hearing the word, we receive the Holy Spirit and thus that fruit of the Spirit that is faith for why our believing in Him is a manifested work of God.

Faith does indeed come by hearing and hearing by the world of God, but regeneration does not come by the means of hearing the word of God. Faith is indeed the fruit of the indwelling Spirit of God, and only those born again have the power to hear, see, and understand.

Regeneration happens upon receiving the Holy Spirit after hearing the word.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying...

One cannot apply grace & mercy if we saved ourselves as if by a free will choice of believing in Him when sin drives us away from the Father for why He has to "drag" us to the son to reveal His Son to us and thus enabling us to believe.

The Gentiles..... Cornelius in particular, was born again before Peter ever arrived to bring the truth of the gospel. Believing the gospel being preached only manifest where there is life, or death still reigning. 2nd Timothy 1:10

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

I do not see anything in that reference that would suggest that Cornelius was born again before Peter arrived to bring the truth of the gospel since being born again of the Spirit has to come by hearing the gospel.

Explain yourself more, not sure what you are trying to say. The only cause of remission of our sins legally would be the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Clarifying your statement;

The only cause of remission of our sins legally would be the work of the Father in our believing in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Their faith was not the cause of their remission of sin. Listen to Peter carefully:

If a person fear, and worketh righteousness ( just like Cornelius was already doing before Peter arrived ) is accepted, not will be !

What Peter did was to bring the KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THEIR SINS HAD BEEN FORGIVEN!

There are seekers and then there is the result of hearing the gospel. Not every one is seeking for why His disciples were forbidden to go to Asia at that time but was called to go to Macedonia instead, and yet there was a need to hear the gospel because they were not saved yet.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

You do not get born again before hearing the gospel because in both incidents where the gospel was preached to the Jews & then to Cornellius and the Gentiles, they had received the Holy Ghost, thus proving they were not born again before they heard the gospel.

I got to go, be back later.

God be willing, you shall. Just as if God be willing that I continue here as well. I am trusting Jesus Christ to take me no matter what I am in the middle of in here or something else, praying that I am not overcharged by the cares of this life nor His ministry because when He says it is time for me to leave, I hope in Him to take me no matter what I am in the middle of, to leave all of this and those astray, behind in His care.

 

[Red Baker]

God be willing, you shall.

You are so right, sorry, I did not word my speech in that manner, I generally do. That being said, I also do not make a brother an offender over his words that may not come out exactly as I would say it.

I do not see how when the Father has to "drag" the sinner to the Son to reveal His Son to them as our believing in Him is from that faith which is a fruit of the Spirit for how after hearing the word, we receive the Holy Spirit and thus that fruit of the Spirit that is faith for why our believing in Him is a manifested work of God.

I have never used the word "drag", yet it takes the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead, to do the same for a sinner who is dead in trepasses and sins! Ephesians 1:19,20.

Also, we do not receive the Spirit of God after we hear the word of the gospel, we must have Him before we we can hear, believe and receive.

What we receive after hearing the gospel is the KNOWLEDGE OF the indwelling Spirit living in our new man which is created after Jesus' image. THe word of God is God's testimony to his children of all the spiritual blessings we have in Jesus Christ, the Spirit of God reveals these blessed truths to us.

Regeneration happens upon receiving the Holy Spirit after hearing the word.

Regeneration takes place within us apart from us even knowing it is happening! God is the only active person working, the elect sinner is totally passive during this spiritual birth. It is a birth of God, by God, without any means whatsoever, including the precious word of God which is only serves as our source of information concerning these previous truths~by which faith comes, but the power to have that faith is only by the new man within the elect who has been quickened to life so that he can hear, see and increase his faith in God and his word to us.

Regeneration can take place anywhere and at any time, since the Spirit comes and goes without us even knowing he has come and gone. We could be fast asleep; could be working doing any vocation under heaven, we could be making love to our spouse, since all things are open and naked before his Holy eyes, he doesn't need us to be in a certain frame of mind~ Since we all are dead in trepasses and sin. He wills and it is done, he speaks and none can stop him from doing his will. He does not need our wills, or the will of another man in creating within us a new man, it is a very simple work for God to do.

Regeneration happens upon receiving the Holy Spirit after hearing the word.

You have this all important doctrine backward, and since you do, you need to do an look at what else you could be wrong on, for if you miss this truth you certainly are missing others.

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

You quote scriptures and not understanding what you are even quoting, which is apr for most. It clearly said:

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The gospel does not bring life to a sinner,it bring "to light" where there is life! A big difference! Wherever God has an elect sinner who have been quickened to life, it will bring to light those born again children of God! Acts 17:34, etc.

I do not see anything in that reference that would suggest that Cornelius was born again before Peter arrived to bring the truth of the gospel since being born again of the Spirit has to come by hearing the gospel.

You sir are in serious error, concerning the new birth.

Let me come back and address this and Acts 10 with you.

 

[ChristB4us]

You are so right, sorry, I did not word my speech in that manner, I generally do. That being said, I also do not make a brother an offender over his words that may not come out exactly as I would say it.

I have never used the word "drag", yet it takes the same power that resurrected Jesus from the dead, to do the same for a sinner who is dead in trepasses and sins! Ephesians 1:19,20.

Well, it does take His power to do it.

From the Greek word helkuo which is defined as "or helko hel'-ko; probably akin to aireomai - haireomai 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):--draw. Compare elissw - helisso 1667."

Also, we do not receive the Spirit of God after we hear the word of the gospel, we must have Him before we we can hear, believe and receive.

What we receive after hearing the gospel is the KNOWLEDGE OF the indwelling Spirit living in our new man which is created after Jesus' image. THe word of God is God's testimony to his children of all the spiritual blessings we have in Jesus Christ, the Spirit of God reveals these blessed truths to us.

Regeneration takes place within us apart from us even knowing it is happening! God is the only active person working, the elect sinner is totally passive during this spiritual birth. It is a birth of God, by God, without any means whatsoever, including the precious word of God which is only serves as our source of information concerning these previous truths~by which faith comes, but the power to have that faith is only by the new man within the elect who has been quickened to life so that he can hear, see and increase his faith in God and his word to us.

Yet the believing Jews when they saw the gentiles, testified to them speaking in tongues as they did upon receiving the Holy Ghost. So...

Not that all who receive the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues of different languages for God to speak unto the people... but there it is.

Regeneration can take place anywhere and at any time, since the Spirit comes and goes without us even knowing he has come and gone. We could be fast asleep; could be working doing any vocation under heaven, we could be making love to our spouse, since all things are open and naked before his Holy eyes, he doesn't need us to be in a certain frame of mind~ Since we all are dead in trepasses and sin. He wills and it is done, he speaks and none can stop him from doing his will. He does not need our wills, or the will of another man in creating within us a new man, it is a very simple work for God to do.

You have this all important doctrine backward, and since you do, you need to do an look at what else you could be wrong on, for if you miss this truth you certainly are missing others.

You quote scriptures and not understanding what you are even quoting, which is apr for most. It clearly said:

The gospel does not bring life to a sinner,it bring "to light" where there is life! A big difference! Wherever God has an elect sinner who have been quickened to life, it will bring to light those born again children of God! Acts 17:34, etc.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Kind of hard for you to apply that verse 18 to what you are saying. Nobody was saved before His ascension which was after His resurrection and the promise was to come when He was glorified upon ascending to the Father after His resurrection.
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

That explains how by coming to & believing in Him is when we are saved and never need to be filled again by the Spirit.

Jesus said this promise of the forever indwelling Holy Spirit was to come as sent by the Father;

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You sir are in serious error, concerning the new birth.

I doubt it.

Let me come back and address this and Acts 10 with you.

Okay.

 

[Ghada]

And that is the problem.

Not my problem. It's not my doctrine.

 

[Ghada]

Ghada,

You are adding to the scriptures, with a weak argument of trying to oppose the truth, by saying that there is one doctrine, when actually there are several doctrines taught in God's word in one cohesive manner from Genesis to Revelation.

One doctrine and law with several points.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

The only time the Bible speaks of 'doctrines' is that of men's, devils, and strange ones foreign to God.

What I am trying to show you is to be more disciplined in how you teach your doctrine, by confining your words to that of the Bible, and ensuring your not stepping in a hole by the words you use.

The Bible never speaks of 'truths', and so neither should we that seek to teach the Bible. There are books of men that do teach of truths, so you can teach them from their books, but not from God's.

There is the one unified truth of God's word written wholly perfect in the Bible. Any other 'truth' is the imagination of man swerving from the truth of all the Bible taken together.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

Your idea of their being two 'slightly' different truths between Eph 2 and Titus 3, would be better stated as two different subjects about works.

However, that is not true, since there is no Bible doctrine about 'salvations'. And so I simply show the subject of works must be the same, because they both apply to the same salvation by grace in Eph 2 and by mercy in Titus 3.

Titus 3 clarifies the works not applying to God's salvation by grace and mercy, is only those past works which we have done before repentance of those dead works and faith toward God.

Now, if you want to try and say there are two 'slightly' different salvations between grace and mercy, then you can try. But of course it won't fly.

Oh, I'm willing if you just have truth, then by means, prove your position. GO back and look at #133 above that I posted to you, where did you even attempt to take what I said and show me that I'm wrong?

The attempt is obviously 135. You not showing in error in it, but only repeating yourself, is why we are at an impasse.

As I said, if prefer to only preach what you have without showing in error in challenges, then no problem. I've preached what I have and we can move on.

 

[Ghada]

Once again, works are mentioned in both places~yet in Ephesians 2:8,9 Paul is teaching that our works had nothing to do with us being saved

Now you got it. Our past works had nothing to do with being saved by grace. Which Titus 3 agrees, that no past works which we have done contributed anything to being saved by mercy, other than being all repented of.

God has always loved those he chose to be in Christ, and he has never view us legally outside of Christ, never!

Not in your gospel.

But in mine, God never legally judges trasngression of His law, as not a transgression against Christ, never!!! (I raise you two exclamation points.)

There are two delusion doctrines: That Christ has no law to transgress, and that Christ does not 'legally' condemn some transgressors, that are doing the same as others, who are condemned.

For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which are doing such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

My gospel is not of an unjust christ and judge, that has respect of persons according to works, just because they believe it. The god of this world isn't even such an unjust judge. He judges all transgressors alike to be his friends, whether they believe it or not.

When Christ lived in this world God view us IN HIM. When Christ died, we die with him; when he arose from the dead, we arose with him, where he now sits, we sit with him, legally speaking,

You may be sitting in outer-space, but it's not with the Bible. No man was in Christ, while Jesus was in the flesh. Are you kidding me? The only Person in Jesus on earth was the Father.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

(Notice how the Father leaves us alone, if we are not pleasing Him but transgressing with the devil. Jesus did not say the Father was with Him, just because He wanted to 'believe it'.)

'Viewing' and 'legally speaking' are euphemisms for claiming to be something we are not in practice. Hypocrisy 101.

Jesus did not do our repenting for us, when He died on a cross, because He didn't do any of our sinning.

We do our own repenting of our own sinning, and His death pays the price for repented past sinning. By His sacrifice and mercy, we don't remain dead from any past sinning, if we repent of them all for His name's sake.

Other religions of man can repent of past sins, but without the faith of Jesus and washing of His blood, their past debt remains. They remain dead from their past sins and trespasses.

The delusion is that Christians are not dead by present sinning. The law of sin and death to God remains. The wages of sinning is still death to God. And the soul which is sinning is dead to God.

something you the work mongers know nothing about.

Sticks and stones...

I accept the title, thanks. I'm a Christian work monger preaching doing righteousness at all times, and you're a what? A workless monger? Can can anyone monger nothing? I trow not. I know, you and your gospel are a big nothing burger.

I can play kids games with the best of them.

Titus three is not addressing subject~We shall return and consider Titus three.

Right. You can combine it with your outstanding promise to address only being remitted of old sins that are past.

 

[EarlyActs]

True. Only those doing His righteousness are righteous as He is.


The justification of Christ is never apart from works. (James 2)


Imputed righteousness is with repentance of dead works and faith toward God. Everything following is the righteousness of God by doing it.

If we sin, then sin is imputed with no righteousness of God while doing unrighteousness.




Paul preaches against works of our own righteousness without the faith of God from the heart, and James preaches against having our own faith without works of God's righteousness.

I do.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that is doing righteousness at all times.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
There is no righteousness nor growth in righteousness, while not doing His righteousness.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is not doing righteousness is not of God.

You will have to learn how the term 'imputed' captures something that goes against our logic, even a bit of a scandal. You are using the term righteousness as though always accomplished by humans (believers). The righteousness of God is actually quite different and is not something we do or experience, because He did. What will eventually happen is that you will have no way to embrace Rom 7, and the contradiction of life. We who are believers strive to live rightly out of honor to God for the Gospel, but the righteousness of God is not those acts.

 

[Eleanor]

Not my problem. It's not my doctrine.

Nor is it the Bible's doctrine.

 

[Red Baker]

Not that all who receive the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues of different languages for God to speak unto the people... but there it is.

I'll pass on this subject for now, since it is not part of the thread, but it would be a good subject to discuss as to why folks spoke in tongues during the reformation period going from Judaism to Christ's religion of the NT, yet, it is not for us in our day, ( or, I should say, not needed ) and surely, not a sign of being filled with the Spirit of God, as the Pentecostals, and their cousins, the four gospel, etc., ignorantly and blindly teach~that being said, it would be a rare occurrence if it is needed in our day, but if it was, then it would follow the biblical pattern in 1st Corinthians 14~and if so, then I for one would not forbid it.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Kind of hard for you to apply that verse 18 to what you are saying.

ChristB4us~quoting scriptures truly proves nothing more than one is just quoting scriptures. Quoting scriptures without laboring to give them their God intended sense leaves most hearers at lost as to what they are teaching, which it is doing just that to you by only quoting them.
Verse eighteen of John three, is a verse declaring a biblical truth, nothing more. It is not teaching any truth concerning how one is born again, that truth would be found in other scriptures other than John 3:13-18!

Concerning John 3:18 declaring biblical truths~consider: It clearly states that a believer is NOT condemned, and one that is an unbeliever is condemned already, and the reason why, is that an unbeliever has not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. So, from John 3:16 to verse 18 all John is doing is decarling a bible truth that even a sound mind should teach a person. Nothing in these scriptures revealing to us how one is born of the Spirit of God. I truly do not know why you even went on this rabbit trail, other than just being confused.

Nobody was saved before His ascension which was after His resurrection and the promise was to come when He was glorified upon ascending to the Father after His resurrection.

No sound believer would ever make such a ignorant statement as to say no man was saved before Christ's death and resurrection, only blinded men who think they have something that Abraham, Moses, Samuel, David and millions of others did not not, a new man within them causing them to love and obey God! All we have under the NT that they did not have under the OT is KNOWLEDGE of what is available through Christ. It would have been impossible for any man to please God who did not live in the Spirit, who only had the flesh to help him to please God, then he would have never even once please God apart from the new man within them~Romans 8 is true of both testaments. There would have never been a Hebrews eleven without them being born of God first~to think otherwise is to show one's blindness, ignorance, and pride!

That explains how by coming to & believing in Him is when we are saved and never need to be filled again by the Spirit.

You guys never ceased to amazed me. You folks have created a shortcut of being filled with the Spirit, making it a one-time experience! I have seen Jimmy Swaggart's SBN broadcast leading folks into being filled with the Spirit by "praying through" making a mockery out of the word of God. Being filled with God's Spirit is a lifelong work that happens many times over in the life of a believer as he yields his members as servants of righteousness, not just a one time experience. The pattern for us to follow is in Galatians 5, not by praying through and following a inner voice by allowing your tongue to be use of a sprit. Enough on this for now.

I doubt it.

Of course you doubt it, so the the religious leaders of Christ's day never consider that they could be deceived. John 8

 

[ChristB4us]

ChristB4us~quoting scriptures truly proves nothing more than one is just quoting scriptures. Quoting scriptures without laboring to give them their God intended sense leaves most hearers at lost as to what they are teaching, which it is doing just that to you by only quoting them.
Verse eighteen of John three, is a verse declaring a biblical truth, nothing more. It is not teaching any truth concerning how one is born again, that truth would be found in other scriptures other than John 3:13-18!

Concerning John 3:18 declaring biblical truths~consider: It clearly states that a believer is NOT condemned, and one that is an unbeliever is condemned already, and the reason why, is that an unbeliever has not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. So, from John 3:16 to verse 18 all John is doing is decarling a bible truth that even a sound mind should teach a person. Nothing in these scriptures revealing to us how one is born of the Spirit of God. I truly do not know why you even went on this rabbit trail, other than just being confused.

Not trying to create a rabbit trail but showing how it is by believing in the name of the only begotten Son is when they are saved since those who do not believe are what? Condemned already.. as in not saved.

So how can they be saved before they hear the gospel? How can this part of the verse 18 be true without clarifying that they may be saved but have not heard the gospel yet? There is no such testimony in scripture.

And like it or not, there are testimonies of those refusing the gospel and yet sometime down the road they believe in him, even on their deathbeds they call on Him to save them. And so they were not saved until they did believe in Him to call on Him to save them.

No sound believer would ever make such a ignorant statement as to say no man was saved before Christ's death and resurrection, only blinded men who think they have something that Abraham, Moses, Samuel, David and millions of others did not not, a new man within them causing them to love and obey God! All we have under the NT that they did not have under the OT is KNOWLEDGE of what is available through Christ. It would have been impossible for any man to please God who did not live in the Spirit, who only had the flesh to help him to please God, then he would have never even once please God apart from the new man within them~Romans 8 is true of both testaments. There would have never been a Hebrews eleven without them being born of God first~to think otherwise is to show one's blindness, ignorance, and pride!

Well, not that I would make this argument, but it would not surprise me that some may try to say that is why and how the O.T. saints were in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise but I would say since Paradise aka Abraham's bosom was located originally beneath the earth, for why He descended to preach unto those in that "prison" and after His ascension is why the apostle John now found Paradise in the Third Heaven, This proves that they needed Christ to bring them to God the Father in Heaven for there was no other way.

You guys never ceased to amazed me. You folks have created a shortcut of being filled with the Spirit, making it a one-time experience! I have seen Jimmy Swaggart's SBN broadcast leading folks into being filled with the Spirit by "praying through" making a mockery out of the word of God. Being filled with God's Spirit is a lifelong work that happens many times over in the life of a believer as he yields his members as servants of righteousness, not just a one time experience. The pattern for us to follow is in Galatians 5, not by praying through and following a inner voice by allowing your tongue to be use of a sprit. Enough on this for now.

Being filled with the Spirit is a one time event as a testimony from God that we are saved as always spirit-filled.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

This is why saved believers are not to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit or otherwise it would null & void His promise below.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Where do we get the fruit of the Spirit from? How is this done? By placing our confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ to do this.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

You may not be referring to another supernatural filling of the Holy Spirit, but those who cite that principle are moving from that principle to the supernatural phenomenon.

And so I declare that Ephesians 5:18 is not a commandment to saved believers to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit but to remain sober by not drinking wine in excess; thus be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Of course you doubt it, so the the religious leaders of Christ's day never consider that they could be deceived. John 8

When it comes to keeping the faith which is the good fight, is why I doubt anything contrary to that faith in Jesus Christ to an apostasy.

 

[EarlyActs]

Not trying to create a rabbit trail but showing how it is by believing in the name of the only begotten Son is when they are saved since those who do not believe are what? Condemned already.. as in not saved.

So how can they be saved before they hear the gospel? How can this part of the verse 18 be true without clarifying that they may be saved but have not heard the gospel yet? There is no such testimony in scripture.

And like it or not, there are testimonies of those refusing the gospel and yet sometime down the road they believe in him, even on their deathbeds they call on Him to save them. And so they were not saved until they did believe in Him to call on Him to save them.

Well, not that I would make this argument, but it would not surprise me that some may try to say that is why and how the O.T. saints were in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise but I would say since Paradise aka Abraham's bosom was located originally beneath the earth, for why He descended to preach unto those in that "prison" and after His ascension is why the apostle John now found Paradise in the Third Heaven, This proves that they needed Christ to bring them to God the Father in Heaven for there was no other way.

Being filled with the Spirit is a one time event as a testimony from God that we are saved as always spirit-filled.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

This is why saved believers are not to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit or otherwise it would null & void His promise below.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Where do we get the fruit of the Spirit from? How is this done? By placing our confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ to do this.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

You may not be referring to another supernatural filling of the Holy Spirit, but those who cite that principle are moving from that principle to the supernatural phenomenon.

And so I declare that Ephesians 5:18 is not a commandment to saved believers to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit but to remain sober by not drinking wine in excess; thus be filled with the Holy Spirit.


When it comes to keeping the faith which is the good fight, is why I doubt anything contrary to that faith in Jesus Christ to an apostasy.

I hope you realize it is not the mechanism of the believer that saves them. Faith is only as good as the object to which it is directed, which must of course, be Christ.