The elephant named Trinity.~

[Eleanor]

like the way OP explained his title.
They dont want to talk about it because they cannot explain it logically.
they cannot because it is a made-up doctrine.
I have debunked all the reasons they came up with.

Where have you debunked the following NT apostolic testimony which identifies Jesus as the YHWH of the OT?

1) Mt 3:3 (Isa 40:3) - Isaiah prophecies a voice of one calling in the desert, "Prepare the way for YHWH," which was John the Baptist (Mk, Lk).
John prepared the way for Jesus (Mk 1:-8, Lk 3:16, Jn 1:29-34). . .making Jesus the YHWH of Isa 40:3.

2) Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Joel prophesies that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved," which Paul quotes and applies to Jesus. . .making Jesus the YHWH of Joel 2:32.

3) Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Moses said, "Rejoice, O nations, with his people, and let all the angels worship him (YHWH), for he will avenge the blood of his servants (Septuagint translation), which Hebrews quotes and applies to Jesus. . .making Jesus the YHWH of Dt 32:43.

4) Eph 4:8-9 (Ps 68:18) - The psalmist states, "When you ascended on high. . .that you, O YHWH, might dwell there," which Paul applies to the ascended Christ. . .making Christ the YHWH of Ps 68:18

5) Jn 19:37 (Zec 12:10) - Zechariah prophesies that they will look on YHWH (12:1-2), the one they have pierced, which John applies to Jesus. . . making Jesus the YHWH of Zec 12:1-2, 10.

6) Lk 4:18-21 (Isa 61:1, 8) - Isaiah's prophecy identifies YHWH of vv. 7-8 with the Messiah of v. 1, which Jesus applies to himself. . .
making Jesus the YHWH of Isa 61:1, 7-8.

7) Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - In Rev 1:12-18, Jesus (1:18, 2:8) identifies himself as the First and the Last, which is YHWH of Isa 44:6, 48:12. . .making Jesus the YHWH of Isa 44:6, 48:12.

8) In Rev 21:6, 22:12-13, Jesus (1:18, 2:8) is the Alpha and Omega who is the Lord God of Rev 1:8.

9) In Rev 20:11-13 w/Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39, the one on the throne is Jesus, who in Rev 21:7 is God. . .making Jesus the God of Rev 21:7.

10) Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10 (Ge 1:1, Isa 44:24, Jer 10:16) - Isa 44:24 says YHWH created alone, while Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10 say Jesus brought all things into being, created all things including angels and by his power holds them in existence, and made the universe. . .so according to John, Paul and Hebrews, Jesus is the Elohim Creator YHWH of Ge, Isa and Jer.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

Where have you debunked the following NT apostolic testimony which identifies Jesus as the YHWH of the OT?

Absolutely ridiculous! There is no such verse. Extreme eisegesis on display.

 

[Arial]

Friend, you confuse 2 things about me that are not the same.
A. Answering questions.B. Answering questions to your satisfaction.
A trinitarian trick is to substitute quality with quantity. Once I go away from trying to achieve Scenario B above, trinitarians claim some kind of victory. Truth is, I was NEVER in the market for Scenario B.

My post you are responding to had nothing to do with answering questions. So----???

 

[Rella]

There is a lot of spiritual blindness these days. Those who would change the very words written in the Holy Bible to their understanding and
seek to find a translation that fosters their beliefs.

2 Corinthians 4:4 ​

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Even Matthew says to "Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” The trouble is they are so certain they are right.

John 9:39 ​

Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind.”

Wise John. Certainly understandable why he was the Disciple that Jesus loved, for he only said the truth.

But we must not avoid what Paul has written...

1 Corinthians 2:14 ​

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

As it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.” So we read in Romans.....

Such a simple truth that so many are blinded to.... tis a shame..............................................................................

John 1:1 ​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

For edification.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

My post you are responding to had nothing to do with answering questions. So----???

So you say and if true, then why the ongoing and gratuitious attack? Now it seems that many of your posts read that I owe you something. Hence, my pointing out Scenario A and Scenario B.

Now comes why I post. The humor. The comedic value of such exchanges is priceless. LOL

 

[Eleanor]

Absolutely ridiculous! There is no such verse.

For edification.

< sigh >

Neither of which addresses the verses presented in my Biblical demonstration of post #181.

Yours above (plus $2.50) might get you a cup of coffee.

Out here in the real world, one must demonstrate one's assertion, showing the error of the Biblical verses one is challenging at the locations presented in post #181, as I have shown their meaning.

Short of that demonstration, yours is all sounding brass and tinkling cymbal (translate: hot air).

Spare us your foolishness. . .

 

[Arial]

For edification.

The problem with that being used to dispute the deity of Christ is that it is one sided. It gives only its view of what "son" means, even though there are legitimate alternative views. It comes entirely from a straw man vantage. It overlays its own interpretive view of the Trinity as stating there are three Gods, as it's argument, when that is not even the Trinity doctrine. And it never calls to attention those scriptures that explicitly stated the Jesus is deity, and also that the Holy Spirit is. (Four or five of which I have given you and more that others have given you.)

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

The problem with that being used to dispute the deity of Christ is that it is one sided.

Yup. Time to spend time on the Jesus is not God side for a while.

 

[Eleanor]

Yup. Time to spend time on the Jesus is not God side for a while.

Which miserably fails to address the NT Scriptures presenting Jesus as God in my Biblical demonstration of post #181.

All hat. . .and no cowboy.

 

[Mr GLee]

Friend, you confuse 2 things about me that are not the same.

A. Answering questions.​

B. Answering questions to your satisfaction.​

A trinitarian trick is to substitute quality with quantity. Once I go away from trying to achieve Scenario B above, trinitarians claim some kind of victory. Truth is, I was NEVER in the market for Scenario B.

I just live my Biblical Unitarian life in a complete mystery to 3-is-1 type folks. Make a blessed day!

Hi "Biblical Unitarian" a newer denomination when was it founded and by whom.?

The Bible living word is a authority of its own as it is written (sola scriptura)

They offer. .from a Unitarian" perspective .In other words, not only is Jesus Christ distinguished from the Father in the Book of Revelation, he is also distinguished from God.

The Book of Revelation clearly distinguishes between the Almighty God, “Him who sits on the throne” (Revelation 4) and “the Lamb standing, as though it had been slain” (Revelation 5). The two are never confused. The Lamb is not God (who sits on the throne), God is not the Lamb. The God of chapter 4 is worshiped because He is God who created everything. The Lamb of chapter 5 is worshipped not because he is God, but because he was slain and by his blood did ransom men for God

The lamb is not worshiped

Christ the anointing or teaching Holy Spirit is signified as a lamb slain from the foundation of the world .The six days the Father as Christ did work .

In Genesis 3 He promised mankind a three days and nights outward demonstration to the whole world as if a lamb slain , They by faith as it is written looked ahead to that glory we by the same spirit of faith. . . the bloody demonstration the labor of Christ love in us . .we can look back to the same gospel

Revaltion21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof

Just as the Sun the source of light and the moon to reflect it becamea all together one thing .No darkness of night. Gods words reflecting his Lovely Glory .

 

[Rella]

Absolutely ridiculous! There is no such verse. Extreme eisegesis on display.

In Romans 10, Paul is discussing the Lord Jesus, and in verse 13, he writes

For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

The reason "LORD" is capitalized by the New King James Version here is that in Joel 2:32, the original verse Paul quotes, the word used is YHWH. Yet Paul uses this verse in reference to Jesus.


Here are three truths, derived from six passages—three from the OT and three from the NT—that can help you explain the truth that Jesus, the Son of God, is Yahweh..

1. The Father and the Son share the name of Yahweh.
   Isaiah 42:8: “I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.”
   and
   Matthew 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
   In Scripture, one’s name carries huge significance. It connotes power, identity, authority, and uniqueness. In Isaiah, the one named Yahweh says He will not give His glory to another. And yet in Matthew’s Gospel, we discover that the Father and the Son share one name! If the Father’s name is Yahweh—and all that comes with that name—then what is the Son’s name? Disciples are baptized into the name (not names) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We submit to the Son equally as to the Father. If the Son were not equal to the Father, then this would be sharing Yahweh’s glory with another. That would be no different from worshiping an idol, or blaspheming—and yet this is exactly what Jesus commands us to do. The Son (Jesus) is Yahweh.
2. Yahweh the Father sent Yahweh the Son.
   Isaiah 48:16: ”Draw near to Me, hear this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. So now Lord Yahweh has sent Me, and His Spirit.”
   and
   1 John 4:14: ”We have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.”
   In Isaiah’s proclamation, Yahweh is speaking (we see this back at the beginning of the speech in Isaiah 45:1, 3, 5, 6 etc.). And yet in 48:16 He (Yahweh) says “Yahweh has sent” Him! How can Yahweh send Yahweh? It makes sense when you realize that this is exactly what happens in the Gospel. The Father (Yahweh) sends the Son (Yahweh) to save the world. The Son is Yahweh.
   Yahweh the Father created with Yahweh the Son.Isaiah 44:24: “Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, ‘I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone.”
   and
   Colossians 1:16: “For in [the Son] all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities⁠—all things have been created through Him and for Him.”Wait a minute! Did Yahweh the Father create the heavens and the earth by Himself? Or was the Son, Jesus, there with Him? The Son was there—and Yahweh did it by Himself. How is this possible? It is possible (and true) because the Father and the Son are both Yahweh. The Son is Yahweh, too.

MORE?

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

Which miserably fails to address the NT Scriptures presenting Jesus as God in my Biblical demonstration of post #181.

All hat. . .and no cowboy.

Again, there is no such verse that ‘presents Jesus as God.’ You have to read that into the Jewish monotheist text.

 

[Arial]

Yup. Time to spend time on the Jesus is not God side for a while.

Do you think I have not considered that or that I have ignored it in my posts? What is being ignored is the rebuttals to your view. Just as the video does. Using the forum for a soap box is one thing. Engaging in mutual exchange of ideas another. Which you prefer to do is entirely up to you. But don't call something what it isn't.

 

[Eleanor]

Again, there is no such verse that ‘presents Jesus as God.’ You have to read that into the Jewish monotheist text.

Assertion without demonstration of any Biblical error in post #181 is assertion without merit.

All hat. . .and no cowboy.

 

[Arial]

Absolutely ridiculous! There is no such verse. Extreme eisegesis on display.

Declarations like that with no substance or explanation, or demonstration of its veracity weigh less than a baby chick feather. What is the eisegesis that you say is on display? What then is the correct eisegesis and what supports it. Do you notice how Trinitarians show their work, support what they say, demonstrate what they claim, and you do not? Ever. Would you like to know why that is?

Because the Unitarian view cannot be supported by scripture. If it were true---it could be.

 

[Arial]

Again, there is no such verse that ‘presents Jesus as God.’ You have to read that into the Jewish monotheist text.

See post #196. If there is no such verse that presents Jesus as God, then what, pray tell, are all those verses @Eleanor gave in post #181 saying?

 

[Rella]

Assertion without demonstration of any Biblical error in post #181 is assertion without merit.

All hat. . .and no cowboy.

Ever wonder what they are afraid of? I do.

 

[Mr GLee]

The Father and the Son share the name of Yahweh.
Isaiah 42:8: “I am Yahweh, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.”
and
Matthew 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Name has to do with immutable attribute .


Son of God born again Christian . Born of the adopting father

 

[grace2]

Ever wonder what they are afraid of? I do.

Are you jealous of us for not taking your bait tactic?