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No one knows the Day or the Hour !

In 3.5 years, when we are snatched out of our clothes, you can get one last "told you so" before we are perfected.

or

In 1000 years, when we rise from our graves, I can get one last "told you so" before we are perfected.
;)
When will the rapture occur?....?????

But, if the technology and economy are the direct signs of the Rev 13 beast system ....the rapture is closer than you think.
 
When will the rapture occur?....?????

But, if the technology and economy are the direct signs of the Rev 13 beast system ....the rapture is closer than you think.
Yup ...

IF! :cool:

 
Are you saying itisn't? Knowledge certainly is increasing.
I honesty don’t know.
  • Knowledge IS increasing (fact).
  • What does the Rev 13 beast system LOOK LIKE? (I dunno.)
  • Is the Rev 13 beast system even LITERAL? (I dunno.)
So IF, just means IF …
 
I honesty don’t know.
  • Knowledge IS increasing (fact).
  • What does the Rev 13 beast system LOOK LIKE? (I dunno.)
  • Is the Rev 13 beast system even LITERAL? (I dunno.)
So IF, just means IF …
You should know there is always an IF factor.
December 8th 2023 8:05 AM
Is that Israel time or eastern standard time? Has that time been corrected for DST?
 
You should know there is always an IF factor.

Is that Israel time or eastern standard time? Has that time been corrected for DST?
EST, I'll have time to watch Good Morning America
 
`To those who EAGERLY WAIT for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.` (Heb. 9: 28)

As to the 10 virgins, that is a parable concerning Israel.

Which Israel, Romans 9:6?
 
In 3.5 years, when we are snatched out of our clothes, you can get one last "told you so" before we are perfected.

or

In 1000 years, when we rise from our graves, I can get one last "told you so" before we are perfected.
;)

There is no claiming the earth as such. There is a NHNE, with this one out of the way.
 
Thank you. "Revelation" (the whole book) was too vague for me to answer your question when the exact wording (return) did not appear (so I could not locate the specific verse in Revelation that you were thinking of).

This answer will suck, but ...
Q. Is that "coming" not a return? [Revelation 22:7]
A. "That coming probably is a return". I am inclined to take ALL of Revelation with a large grain of salt when it comes to claiming any part of it is "LITERAL". It is a vision, so it is by its nature 'metaphysical' and it is rampant with spiritual TRUTHS expressed through dramatic symbolism. From elsewhere in Scripture, we know that there is a LITERAL return of Jesus, so that reference to Jesus coming may have been intended as literal.

Let me ask you ... was it literally "soon"? [John's original readers expected to be alive to see the day, as did Paul's original readers; so maybe there is SOME symbolism in Revelation 22:7?]


No. Acts is not a symbolic book recording a vision, it is a historic account of what eye-witnesses saw and heard recorded by Luke. There are also no dragons eating women in Acts or people with swords in their mouths in Acts.

I do not doubt that Jesus will return, I am merely cautious using images from a vision as symbolic as Revelation as LITERAL and future historical events. That does not fit with much of the rest of the Revelation prose unless you are expecting sword tongues and dragons as also future literal historic events.


Good final paragraph, because no NT passage in ordinary language has a ton of drawn out Judaic events. The destructive wrath happens very quick. This earth is replaced by the NHNE.
 
Which Israel, Romans 9:6?
`The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not be greater than that of Judah. In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the feeble among them in that day shall be like David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them.

It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son and grieve for Him as one grieves for a first-born.

In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem...` (Zech. 12: 10 & 11)
 
That is not the Last Trump, it is God speaking unto the 7 (Divine Completion) Churches of the Church Age period.

Rev. 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev. 1 is John seeing Jesus in all of his glory. Rev. 2 & 3 is the Church Age, Rev. 4-19 is the 70th week hereafter. That merely signifies Jesus' authority, he speaks as a Trump quivers.

As per the Feasts, yes they are for Israel, but Israel lives in this world, they are God SHOWING Israel their course in this world at every turn. They birth the Messiah/Redeemer, he dies (Passover) for "Their sins" and we were grafted in. He knows NO SIN (He was the son of God, he was thus as Unleavened Bread without sin). Jesus then destroyed death and was the First-fruits of the grave. Jesus then became the High Priest of the "Gentile Harvest" season (Church Age/Pentecost or Feast of Weeks) in which Jews also come to know the Messiah, and the church was built up by Jesus' Jewish Disciples. The Feast of Trumps end the Harvest of Souls, thus happens in Rev. 4:1 where Jesus calls the Church home. Both Jews and Gentiles get Harvested & Raptured via the Dead and the living being taken to Heave to marry the Lamb (Jesus). Now during the 70th week Israel must ATONE just as Dan. 9:24-27 states, and they do as Zech. 13:8-9 says, just before the DOTL (Zech. 14:1) and thus this fulfills the Day of Atonement. Finally we see the Jews dwelling with Jesus for 1000 years during the Kingdom Age fulfilling the Feast of Tabernacles.

The 7 Feasts are about Israel and the whole world she lives in, the Passover was Jesus dying for us all, Jesus not having ever sinned allows us all to be forgiven, Jesus overcoming death allows us all to overcome the curse of death Adam fell into, the Church Age is about both Jews an Gentiles, thus the Harvest concerns us all. The Rapture of the Church with both Jews and Gentiles concern us all, the Atonement of Israel concerns only them, the mostly Gentile Church is in Heaven by this time, God needs a Seed of Abraham saved so Jesus can fulfill God's Promises unto Abraham. Jesus dwell with Israel during the Kingdom Age, not Gentiles. So, the Feasts are about us all, until we are Raptured, then the last two Feasts are about Israel only. So, its more complex than most people realize. Its God foretelling the whole History of the world, as a matter of fact "Holy Convocations" simply means Dress Rehearsals.


But by that time the Last Trump (Harvest Trump) has sounded, you are conflating Judgment Trumps with the Last Trump if the Harvest which ends the harvest season (Church Age).


The mistake people make is in THE TIMING, its the most important thing, yet most people to not grasp this. Zech. 13:8-9 shows Israel repents just before the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1, thus the Rev. 8 Trumps happen just after Israel (144,000 is a code) repents and flees Judea. So, Israel repents before Judgment comes as Zech. shows.

The Fire is merely the incoming Asteroid that God has preordained to hit us long ago, on April 13, 2029 (DOTL) The Angels can not sound until the 7th Seal is loosed. The 7 Seals are merely God/Jesus foretelling us what the Trumpet Judgments bring, 7 = divine completion. All of the judgments are in the 7 Trumps. No judgments are in the 7 seals.
Hi Ron,

Sorry I seemed to have missed this post of yours. Now, I do agree with most of what you write. I think we were misunderstanding each other.
 
`The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not be greater than that of Judah. In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the feeble among them in that day shall be like David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them.

It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son and grieve for Him as one grieves for a first-born.

In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem...` (Zech. 12: 10 & 11)


Yep, and when the NT quotes it, it is about the crucifixion. Have you extensively studied how the NT uses the OT? It's the official way, otherwise we are just poking around.
 
Yep, and when the NT quotes it, it is about the crucifixion. Have you extensively studied how the NT uses the OT? It's the official way, otherwise we are just poking around.
`It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.` (Zech. 12: 9)

So, where is that in the NT, please?
 
`It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.` (Zech. 12: 9)

So, where is that in the NT, please?
Though it doesn't mention Jerusalem...Rev 19:
14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.d He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

.....What do you think?
 
`It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.` (Zech. 12: 9)

So, where is that in the NT, please?
I am not an Eschatology or even Prophecy in general fan (I need to wait for the angel to come along and explain what it meant) ... but if "Jerusalem" is the "City of God" [ie. poetic-speak for "God's People"], then it plays out over and over in this world.
  • How is the mighty Hun empire doing that attacked Christian Europe?
  • How did the medieval Caliphate fare? Is Norh Africa still a force to be reckoned with?
  • How did Hitler's "final solution" work out for Germany and the Third Empire [Reich]?
  • How has destroying the Russian Orthodox Church to teach Atheism worked out for the Soviet Union? (last I heard, the Church was still alive in Russia but the Soviet Union had died.)
  • Let's watch China and see if THEIR efforts to crush the Church and worship the state produce similar fruit.
It seems to me, that God HAS DESTROYED the nations that come against "Jerusalem" (His Holy City) ... we were just looking at the "real estate" when we should have been looking at the "people".

[But, as I said ... prophecy isn't really my thing. Now ask me about my Jesus and THAT's a whole different matter.] :cool:
 
`It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.` (Zech. 12: 9)

So, where is that in the NT, please?


Do you know what 'flattening' is? It is that the OT vision is read as one piece, but the reader could not see the Gospel event separate (by some 40 years) from the destruction of Jerusalem. So things have a different sense, depending on which end of the generation (Christs or the destruction) you are referring to. Some may even have elements of the end of time when the city of believers is protected, Rev 20. Flattening happens in Dan 9, when Messiah succeeds, but Israel is ruined. Those two outcomes must be settled.

We also know the established theme of the Jerusalem above. Gal 4, Heb 12, 13, the city full of Christ's believers.

That is why it is very important not to go back to the race-nation when the NT is speaking of Christ and those in him. The Bible does not have two peoples-two programs.

That is why my first question to you here was 'which Israel?' and the reference to Rom 9:6.
 
Though it doesn't mention Jerusalem...Rev 19:
14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.d He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

.....What do you think?
Yes, that is what I see also.
 
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