Luther tried

[Arch Stanton]

Biblical assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

so you haven't read St. Paul talking about one body, one spirit, one faith? Here you go....

Eph 4:3-6 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[atpollard]

so you haven't read St. Paul talking about one body, one spirit, one faith? Here you go....

Eph 4:3-6 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Then why did the Bishop of Rome break fellowship with the other 11 Apostles 600 years before Luther? We endured Rome's apostasy for 600 years longer than the rest of the Catholic Church!
[And were burned at the stake for it ... just ask Huss.]

 

[Arch Stanton]

Huss

was a heretic

 

[Arch Stanton]

Then why

... one faith, remember?

 

[atpollard]

... one faith, remember?

Rejecting all the APOSTLES except Peter ... that is not ONE FAITH and certainly not the ONE FAITH that Paul spoke of that he received DIRECTLY from Jesus!

The POPE broke the ONE FAITH long before the first Protestant came along.

 

[atpollard]

was a heretic

What was his HERETICAL teaching?
What did Huss believe that contradicted God? [The definition of HERETICAL.]

 

[Arch Stanton]

What was his HERETICAL teaching?

Was he against the church teachings?

 

[atpollard]

The Key Errors of Hus and His Followers​

‘Hussites’ refers to the followers of Jan Hus who continued his heresies even after his death. Their errors, like their founder’s, can generally be grouped into 4 categories:

1. Authority of the Bible: Like Hus, the Hussites emphasized the authority of the Bible as the sole source of religious truth. This is the error of Sola Scriptura.
2. Rejection of papal authority: The Hussites rejected the authority of the Pope and the hierarchical structure of the Catholic Church.
3. Communion for all: The Hussites believed in the doctrine of “Utraquism,” which held that both the bread and wine of the Eucharist should be offered to all believers, not just the clergy. They rejected that the whole of Christ is present in each Eucharistic species, thus making it unnecessary for the faithful to receive the wine that has been consecrated.
4. Priesthood of all believers: The Hussites held that all believers were priests and so there was no need for a special class of clergy to mediate between God and humanity. They therefore attacked the Sacrament of Holy Orders as instituted by Christ at the Last Supper.

This should make it easier for you ... Just show in the CCC or Scripture where any of these are punishable by death. [This list is from a RCC site.]

 

[Arch Stanton]

Jan Hus, influenced by John Wycliffe, propagated several heretical teachings that were condemned by the Catholic Church. Hus adopted Wycliffe's denial of transubstantiation, the belief that the bread and wine in the Eucharist become the actual body and blood of Christ, instead claiming they remain mere bread and wine. This contradicts the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1376). Hus also embraced Wycliffe's view of the Church as an "invisible transcendent society," rejecting the hierarchical structure and the authority of the Pope. This opposes the Catholic understanding of the Church as a visible institution founded by Christ, with the Pope as its head (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 882). Additionally, Hus supported the principle of sola scriptura, which holds that the Bible alone is the sole authority for Christian faith and practice. This contradicts the Catholic teaching that both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are essential for understanding God's revelation (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 80). These errors led to Hus's condemnation and execution at the Council of Constance in 1415. [CA]

 

[Mr GLee]

16th century

Hi thanks

The second reformation? The first was in Hebrews 9 . . .16th to try again a carbon copy same law of the fathers orals traditions of dying mankind Making the word of God without effect.

Cant serve two good teaching masters .Eternal God and dying flesh and blood.

The law of sola scriptura . .the a law of faith the unseen things of Christ in working in us yoked with him , He set up a law to protect the integrity of the living word as the one author and finisher Christ ,

When Moses finished writing sola scriptura He was to put the living word as it is written on the outside of the golden Ark. Gold representing the unseen measure of faith .It sola scriptura) alone revealed what was inside . Christ knew they would not understand the parable and as soon as Moses died. . The oral traditons of dying mankind would become law "of out of sight out of mind" as in who believes in a God not seen . . .

Deuteronomy 31:24-29 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the Lord; and how much more after my death? Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

 

[atpollard]

Jan Hus, influenced by John Wycliffe, propagated several heretical teachings that were condemned by the Catholic Church. Hus adopted Wycliffe's denial of transubstantiation, the belief that the bread and wine in the Eucharist become the actual body and blood of Christ, instead claiming they remain mere bread and wine. This contradicts the Catholic doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1376). Hus also embraced Wycliffe's view of the Church as an "invisible transcendent society," rejecting the hierarchical structure and the authority of the Pope. This opposes the Catholic understanding of the Church as a visible institution founded by Christ, with the Pope as its head (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 882). Additionally, Hus supported the principle of sola scriptura, which holds that the Bible alone is the sole authority for Christian faith and practice. This contradicts the Catholic teaching that both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are essential for understanding God's revelation (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 80). These errors led to Hus's condemnation and execution at the Council of Constance in 1415. [CA]

I already know that no scripture supports burning or execution for any of these beliefs [scripture teaches all these things, which is why we had a Great Schism and Protestant Reformation].

So where does the CCC command DEATH for believing these things?
Remember, the Catholic Church NEVER CHANGES its policy ... it is infallible on matters of doctrine.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I already know that no scripture supports burning or execution for any of these beliefs [scripture teaches all these things, which is why we had a Great Schism and Protestant Reformation].

So where does the CCC command DEATH for believing these things?
Remember, the Catholic Church NEVER CHANGES its policy ... it is infallible on matters of doctrine.

The Catholic Church did not burn Jan Hus. Jan Hus, a Czech theologian and reformer, was condemned as a heretic by the Council of Constance and subsequently burned at the stake in 1415. This was a decision made by the council, which included both ecclesiastical and secular authorities, not solely the Catholic Church. It is important to understand that during that period, heresy was often seen as a threat to both religious and civil order, and secular authorities played a significant role in the enforcement of such punishments. For a more accurate understanding of the Church's stance on heresy and its historical context, it is crucial to look at the broader picture, including the role of secular authorities and the specific charges against individuals like Jan Hus. [CA]

 

[Arch Stanton]

Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

 

[atpollard]

...A great deal, however, has been wanting to the entire fulness of that consolation. Amidst these very manifestations of public joy and reverence Our thoughts went out towards the immense multitude of those who are strangers to the gladness that filled all Catholic hearts: some because they lie in absolute ignorance of the Gospel; others because they dissent from the Catholic belief, though they bear the same name of Christians. This thought has been, and is, a source of deep concern to Us; for it is impossible to think of such a large portion of mankind deviating, as it were, from the right path, as they move away from Us, and not experience a sentiment of innermost grief. But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, who when about to return to Heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest prayer, that His disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: "I pray...that they all may be one, as thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us." And as this divine prayer and supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the unity of divine faith.

Pressed on to Our intent by charity, that hastens fastest there where the need is greatest, We direct Our first thoughts to those most unfortunate of all nations who have never received the light of the Gospel, or who, after having possessed it, have lost it through neglect or the vicissitudes of time: hence do they ignore God, and live in the depths of error. Now, as all salvation comes from Jesus Christ--for there is no other name under Heaven given to men whereby we must be saved--Our ardent desire is that the most holy name of Jesus should rapidly pervade and fill every land. - Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894

The phrase is interpreted in the wrong sense by many here. In the Catholic point of view, "we hold upon this Earth the place of God" makes perfect sense, as Catholics believe that the Pope is the Vicar (i.e. Representative) of Christ. What does a representative do? He "holds the place" of the person he represents! Far from claiming that he is God in the flesh, Pope Leo is just reaffirming his position as Christ's representative (like a Prime Minister) on Earth. - Patrick (blogger)

I leave it to others to split hairs over the wording a dead man said in the 19th Century.
The CONCEPT behind "Vicar of Christ" and the warning offered by Paul is a matter that each reader can easily decide for themselves.
THAT is my position.

 

[Mr GLee]

Mt 10:2-4

OK a remnant of all the apostles listed 27 to include the apostle Jesus . He sends them out two by two then what?

Not some kind of identify theft Apostles = sent messenger. now highly venerable puffed up ones .

the English translation to the Greek word apostle is sent messenger .

I am my wives favorite apostle she sends me on a mission to the supermarket with a written list not to add or subtract from . Mission accomplished the apostles reward two home made peanut butter cookies

Define using scripture the word "apostle"? Then we can move on.

1 Corihtinans 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

What's your understanding ? Puff them up?

 

[Arch Stanton]

OK a remnant of all the apostles listed 27 to include the apostle Jesus

The apostle Jesus???

 

[Eleanor]

so you haven't read St. Paul talking about one body, one spirit, one faith? Here you go....

Eph 4:3-6 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[Eleanor]

so you haven't read St. Paul talking about one body, one spirit, one faith? Here you go....

Eph 4:3-6 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

The promise is to all who believe (Ro 4:16-18, Gal 3:22, Eph 1:13) who, thereby, are one body of Christ, one Spirit, one faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.

 

[Arch Stanton]

The promise is to all who believe (Ro 4:16-18, Gal 3:22, Eph 1:13) who, thereby, are one body of Christ, one Spirit, one faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.

One Faith Eleanor.... not many, but ONE

 

[Eleanor]

One Faith Eleanor.... not many, but ONE

Precisely. . .faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, divine Son of God.