The Pope as the Antichrist

[Carbon]

Anti-Christ means against Christ and in place of Christ. Would you say that the office of Pope fulfils those criteria? He is certainly the head of a beast system.

Also, in John’s epistles he teaches on this, while some anyway. He does not pick out a certain person or religion. But those who are against Christ.
Deceivers who do not confess Christ came in the flesh.
John states many Antichrist’s have come and we are in the last hour.
John says it will be those who deny Jesus is the Christ. So personally, I cannot settle on the pope or the RCC. If I am missing evidence of this then I ask, please show me.

I also know many reformers and puritans would disagree with me. Though they are much smarter and gifted that I, they could still be wrong. I also know of everyone they would have the best reasons to believe so.

 

[Carbon]

If I may add. The RCC I believed ceased being a Christian church when they denied we are justified by faith alone. As Luther said, it is what the church stands on. And they have fallen.

They stuck with many of their unbiblical practices like transubstantiation, purgatory, worship of the saints and Mary. And there have been many genuine Christian’s through the centuries that followed some of these doctrines. It’s obvious the Church leaders and pope was deceived into believing lies. However, they have never, that I know of denied that Jesus is the Son of God, come in the flesh. They have never denied the Trinity.

Can they pass as “a” Antichrist system? I have to say yes. But the pope as “the Antichrist?” I’m not convinced

 

[Mr GLee]

Anti-Christ means against Christ and in place of Christ. Would you say that the office of Pope fulfils those criteria? He is certainly the head of a beast system.

The Pope is one of many that makes the word of God to no effect through oral traditons (false prophecy)

 

[Josheb]

The proof is in the fact that the meaning of anti-Christ is expressed in 2 Thess. 2:4 (in place of the Lord and against him), but under the titles of "man of sin" and "son of perdition".

That is incorrect. The meaning of the word "antichrist" is defined by John, not Webster-Mirriam. Everything built on that error is likewise erroneous. There is no meaning of antichrist in 2 Thessalonians. The word never appears in the epistle. The question is being begged; attempts toprove what is assumed are fallacious.

Anti-Christ is not only against Christ; it also, and this crucial, means "in place of Christ"

No, it doesn't. An antichrist is against Christ n very specific ways, according to John. You yourself stated the antichrist is not an ordinary sinner. He is a sinner of specified attributes and John listed them. Paul never used the term.

The office of Pope claims that he is not only in Christ's stead, but actually is Christ on earth.

Which makes him an idolatrous man, but not one of John' antichrists.

Do you have a better suggestion for who the anti-Christ is/was and who the man of sin is/was?

I've already answered that question elsewhere in the thread.

This is a misunderstanding.

Firstly, I believe that "man of sin" is the correct reading; however, even taking "man of lawlessness" to be correct, it does not mean someone, specifically, who disobeys the law of Moses.

Lawlessness means not being under law at all (not in the sense of being under grace, but in the sense of not submitting to law). It refers to someone who is a law unto himself (e.g. the Pope, making up his own laws, with his own usurped authority).

I've already answered and addressed that commentary, too. If you're going to use John's term "antichrist" then be consistent. Use John's definition of sin, too. Sin is lawlessness. To say the man of sin is the man of opposing Jesus hasn't accomplished anything unless there is a (scriptural) standard by which either term can be measured. John provides that measure. If not John, then Moses.

The Pope may be an antichrist (although I disagree), but he most definitely is not THE antichrist of which John wrote.

 

[David1701]

Yes, I believe the pope sits in the place of God, he is carried around like a god, they call him holy father. And a bunch of other reasons I answer yes. But exactly where or what passage convinces you of that? The pope being the Antichrist that is.

Jesus said there are many Antichrist’s in the world. Do you believe that? If that be the case, what is the actual meaning of antichrist? Are there more than one as scripture says or are they all wrapped up into one? If so scripture should teach it

There are many anti-Christs, but only one who sits in the temple of God (the professing church), proclaiming that he is Christ; that he has all authority in heaven, on the earth and under the earth; that he has the authority to change times and seasons; that he has the authority to change biblical doctrine; that what he proclaims "ex-cathedra" is infallible; that he has primacy over all Christians (indeed, over all people everywhere); that there is no salvation for those who reject his primacy, etc..

His pagan title "Pontifex Maximus" was passed down to him by a "god-man" Caesar, who also conferred upon him primacy over all Christians. He has titles of blasphemy (Holy Father, Vicar of Christ) and one of those titles means "anti-Christ".

His organisation is drunk with the blood of the saints; it teaches numerous heresies; it is full of iniquity; and yet, it claims to be the one true church.

The present "Pope" has called for a one world government; he lauds Klaus Schwab (the arch globalist head of the World Economic Forum, which is blatantly anti-Christian); he supports blessing homosexual couples, etc..

The anti-Christ is hiding in plain sight...

 

[David1701]

Also, in John’s epistles he teaches on this, while some anyway. He does not pick out a certain person or religion. But those who are against Christ.
Deceivers who do not confess Christ came in the flesh.
John states many Antichrist’s have come and we are in the last hour.
John says it will be those who deny Jesus is the Christ. So personally, I cannot settle on the pope or the RCC. If I am missing evidence of this then I ask, please show me.

I also know many reformers and puritans would disagree with me. Though they are much smarter and gifted that I, they could still be wrong. I also know of everyone they would have the best reasons to believe so.

John says, for example, that those who deny that Christ has come in the flesh are anti-Christs, not that this is a characteristic of the anti-Christ, nor that all anti-Christs share this heresy.

 

[Carbon]

There are many anti-Christs, but only one who sits in the temple of God (the professing church), proclaiming that he is Christ; that he has all authority in heaven, on the earth and under the earth; that he has the authority to change times and seasons; that he has the authority to change biblical doctrine; that what he proclaims "ex-cathedra" is infallible; that he has primacy over all Christians (indeed, over all people everywhere); that there is no salvation for those who reject his primacy, etc..

His pagan title "Pontifex Maximus" was passed down to him by a "god-man" Caesar, who also conferred upon him primacy over all Christians. He has titles of blasphemy (Holy Father, Vicar of Christ) and one of those titles means "anti-Christ".

His organisation is drunk with the blood of the saints; it teaches numerous heresies; it is full of iniquity; and yet, it claims to be the one true church.

The present "Pope" has called for a one world government; he lauds Klaus Schwab (the arch globalist head of the World Economic Forum, which is blatantly anti-Christian); he supports blessing homosexual couples, etc..

The anti-Christ is hiding in plain sight...

You have some very good points there. Matter of fact, when I posted about this years ago, it was simular to what you wrote here. I will try and find some notes and explain why I believe as I do now.

 

[David1701]

That is incorrect. The meaning of the word "antichrist" is defined by John, not Webster-Mirriam. Everything built on that error is likewise erroneous. There is no meaning of antichrist in 2 Thessalonians. The word never appears in the epistle. The question is being begged; attempts toprove what is assumed are fallacious.

This is insulting. I did not use the Merriam-Webster dictionary (it's American, so I would not normally use it anyway); I used Greek-English lexicons.

You are the one who is in error, so your entire post, being built on that error, is on a false foundation.

The meaning of "antichristos" is, as I stated, in place of Christ and against Christ, which you would know, if you had looked up a reputable lexicon (I looked up a few, not including the beginner's gloss which is Strong's, and they all agreed).

John does not give the meaning of "antichrist"; rather, he gives some heresies, the holders of which are antichrists (but not every antichrist holds these heresies, obviously).

The word "antichrist" does not need to appear in 2 Thess., since the same meaning is presented, in different words.

 

[Carbon]

The meaning of "antichristos" is, as I stated, in place of Christ and against Christ, which you would know, if you had looked up a reputable lexicon (I looked up a few, not including the beginner's gloss which is Strong's, and they all agreed).

I agree.

 

[Mr GLee]

The meaning of "antichristos" is, as I stated, in place of Christ and against Christ, which you would know, if you had looked up a reputable lexicon (I looked up a few, not including the beginner's gloss which is Strong's, and they all agreed).

Antichrist (Satan singular )another teaching authority other than all thing written in the law and prophets.

Satan the antichrist' (singular) sends out false apostles with oral tradition of dying mankind men called antichrists (plural) a legion

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. (false prophets false apostles)

 

[Alive]

Antichrist (Satan singular )another teaching authority other than all thing written in the law and prophets.

Satan the antichrist' (singular) sends out false apostles with oral tradition of dying mankind men called antichrists (plural) a legion

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. (false prophets false apostles)

You are adding things to scripture not there.

 

[Mr GLee]

You are adding things to scripture not there.

Thanks. . Like for instance?