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John 6:44-45

Where does the Bible say that they were not regenerate when Jesus called them?
that a huge assumption to make that they were. and we know they were not born again until Pentecost when Jesus promised them they would receive the Holy Spirit and He would be in them and to wait until that day in the upper room.
 
The disciples were not regenerate when Jesus called them and they followed Him. They chose to follow Jesus and give up everything.

They were regenerate. They were not yet a new creation in Christ which is a supercharged form of born again.

OT believers were born again. They had a human spirit.
Being OT they did not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Unregenerate = body and soul.
Regenerate = body, soul, and human spirit.

We have a passage that gets commonly skimmed over in translation. Its 1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God.
For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they
are spiritually discerned."
1 Cor 2:14

The words "natural man" does not appear in the Greek.
The Greek word is psukikos. (soo kee koss) https://biblehub.com/greek/5591.htm
A more accurate translation could be rendered "the soulish man."
A man who is only body and soul. No human spirit.

When we are born again God the Holy Spirit begets us a human spirit. The OT believers were born again.
Moses.. David.. the people who believed in the Lord God of Israel, all born again.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he needed to be born again to know he is the Messiah.
Nicodemus was yet an OT person when Jesus told him to be born again!

Before the church age began at Pentecost the disciples were OT born again type believers.
Being OT they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to restrain their flesh, so they needed to be under the Law.

grace and peace .....................
 
They were regenerate. They were not yet a new creation in Christ which is a supercharged form of born again.

OT believers were born again. They had a human spirit.
Being OT they did not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Unregenerate = body and soul.
Regenerate = body, soul, and human spirit.

We have a passage that gets commonly skimmed over in translation. Its 1 Corinthians 2:14

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God.
For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they
are spiritually discerned."
1 Cor 2:14

The words "natural man" does not appear in the Greek.
The Greek word is psukikos. (soo kee koss) https://biblehub.com/greek/5591.htm
A more accurate translation could be rendered "the soulish man."
A man who is only body and soul. No human spirit.

When we are born again God the Holy Spirit begets us a human spirit. The OT believers were born again.
Moses.. David.. the people who believed in the Lord God of Israel, all born again.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he needed to be born again to know he is the Messiah.
Nicodemus was yet an OT person when Jesus told him to be born again!

Before the church age began at Pentecost the disciples were OT born again type believers.
Being OT they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to restrain their flesh, so they needed to be under the Law.

grace and peace .....................
Nice try you will not find any verse stating they were regenerate ( born again ) until Pentecost.

And I can prove to you they did not understand spiritual things and especially the gospel until after Jesus Resurrection from the dead. They were carnal/natural and not spiritual when they were with Jesus during those three years. Jesus had to take them aside all of the time to explain the parables. Even then they did not understand.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”

34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
 
that a huge assumption to make that they were. and we know they were not born again until Pentecost when Jesus promised them they would receive the Holy Spirit and He would be in them and to wait until that day in the upper room.
Hmm...

The Bible describes what unregenerate people are like, and it's not pretty. The OT saints were all born again, but they didn't have baptism in the Holy Spirit, into the body of Christ, which is what happened on the day of Pentecost.
 
Nice try you will not find any verse stating they were regenerate ( born again ) until Pentecost.

And I can prove to you they did not understand spiritual things and especially the gospel until after Jesus Resurrection from the dead. They were carnal/natural and not spiritual when they were with Jesus during those three years. Jesus had to take them aside all of the time to explain the parables. Even then they did not understand.

The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?

Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”

34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.

John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Look here.

And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth
will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ."
Matthew 16:19-20​

Only those born again could know He was the Christ! They knew Jesus was the Christ!
That is why Jesus told Nicodemus he needed then to be born again! To know who he was!

Nicodemus had become born again before Pentecost. Its why he took the body of Jesus for burial!

The passages you gave showed how the disciples were still spiritually inept.
For they needed to first become being a new creation in Christ to understand!
The New Creation = Church!
OT born again = Law.

The disciples before the resurrection had to be still under the Law. They could not think at that time like you cited all those verses. Unable to think with Scriptures that the Spirit would later control and guide them. That does not mean they were not born again. It means that they had not yet become the new creation in Christ that would make men free of the Law. The law needed to constrain them because the Holy Spirit was not yet in them.

Keep in mind again...

"Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ."


You have to be born again to know he is the Christ!

You are confusing Church age capacities and the limited OT believers capacities to mean the OT believers were not born again.

They were born again! But they were not yet made to be a new creation in Christ until after Christ was glorified.

Born again means we are given a human spirit to know the things of God. OT believers did know the things of God.

A New Creation in Christ not only knows the things of God like OT believers could. But, the Church has now been granted the power to BECOME transformed in their minds into the things of God we know!

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all,
who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image
with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Cor 3:17-18​


Keep in mind that transformation into his image can only happen when accurate sound doctrine is being taught.
Paul was such a teacher. And, he was writing to his congregation.

Many today have no idea what is going on with so many teachings that are poor in quality and are accepted.
They will fight and root for their pet doctrines like men root for their favorite football teams. No growth that way.




.................
 
that a huge assumption to make that they were. and we know they were not born again until Pentecost when Jesus promised them they would receive the Holy Spirit and He would be in them and to wait until that day in the upper room.

No! They were not a New Creation in Christ until Pentecost! They were born again already!
The New Creation is not the same thing as being born again.

Born again is what made Abraham able to have faith in the Lord!

Born again is what made Daniel into the prophet he was!

Born again is what made Moses able to be the man of God he became!

Born again simply makes one regenerate. Body, soul, and human spirit.

becoming a New Creation in Christ is being baptized into the Holy Spirit.
The indwelling Holy Spirit is not the same thing as our human spirit.
 
The disciples were not regenerate when Jesus called them and they followed Him. They chose to follow Jesus and give up everything.
How do you know they were not regenerate when Jesus called them?
 
How do you know they were not regenerate when Jesus called them?
Where were they regenerated when He called them please point that out to me. Thanks !
 
he guys take a chill pill I was on the phone helping an old friend and coaching him on his new coffee roaster and giving him some friendly advice. geeze have some patience :ROFLMAO:
 
The disciples were not regenerate when Jesus called them and they followed Him. They chose to follow Jesus and give up everything.

Peter was most definitely regenerate before Pentecost.

The following passage reveals that it has to be true.
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and
blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. "

Matthew 16:15-17
 
Peter was most definitely regenerate before Pentecost.

The following passage reveals that it has to be true.
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and
blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. "

Matthew 16:15-17
Revelation is not regeneration . You are conflating them . If that’s your reasoning then the demons are regenerate since they knew He is the Son of God their creator .
 
Where were they regenerated when He called them please point that out to me. Thanks !
Point out to me where they were not.
 
Revelation is not regeneration . You are conflating them . If that’s your reasoning then the demons are regenerate since they knew He is the Son of God their creator .

You can't have revelation concerning the things of God unless you have regeneration...

Demons are what? Spiritual by default!

You keep thinking that only the Church has regeneration?

You believe that David who wrote the psalms did not have regeneration?????
 
Point out to me where they were not.
The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.


Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?


Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;


Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”c34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.


John 12:16

At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth. Future- He will be in you. He was not in them until Pentecost.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Acts 1
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” 8. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
 
he guys take a chill pill I was on the phone helping an old friend and coaching him on his new coffee roaster and giving him some friendly advice. geeze have some patience :ROFLMAO:
Sorry. Was fresh out of patience yesterday. I’ll have to start stocking up on that stuff. Just in case.
 
Sorry. Was fresh out of patience yesterday. I’ll have to start stocking up on that stuff. Just in case.
He is coming over my house Monday morning and bringing his new machine over for some tutoring. :)
 
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