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John 6:44-45

Who? Patience?
no and old friend I led to the Lord and discipled with my brother when I was a newlywed back in 85. He lives in the Bay Area near Antioch about an hour from here. His father in law is the one I mentioned before who was the 3rd in command with the JW's back in the 70's who got saved and became a born again Christian. I've had some amazing talks and insights into the JW organization because of him.
 
no and old friend I led to the Lord and discipled with my brother when I was a newlywed back in 85. He lives in the Bay Area near Antioch about an hour from here.
I’m just messin with ya.
 
I’m just messin with ya.
I know but it gives me a chance to talk about it. Getting ready to head out and pick up my grandson for Thursday morning mens discipleship at our church. His dad drives one of those electric bicycles to work ( church ) so I pick up my grandson on the way there. :). Be back in a few hours. Hold down the fort while I'm gone. :ROFLMAO:
 
The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.


Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?


Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;


Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time

Luke 18:31-34

Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”c34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26

He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?

John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.


John 12:16

At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.

John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”

Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth. Future- He will be in you. He was not in them until Pentecost.

John 14:17
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."

John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Acts 1
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” 8. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
How does them not understanding, and not yet being baptized with the Holy Spirit mean not-regenerated? (But thanks for going to all that trouble of looking up verses.) Understanding is not instantaneous, and indwelling and baptism/filled are two different things.
 
How does them not understanding, and not yet being baptized with the Holy Spirit mean not-regenerated? (But thanks for going to all that trouble of looking up verses.) Understanding is not instantaneous, and indwelling and baptism/filled are two different things.
Regeneration means the new birth , born again , born of the spirit , baptized by the spirit etc. This occurred at Pentecost
 
Regeneration means the new birth , born again , born of the spirit , baptized by the spirit etc. This occurred at Pentecost
Assertion. Regeneration is not the baptism by the Spirit. They can happen simultaneously, but don't, usually.

We even have cases in the OT of the Spirit causing someone to prophesy who is not regenerated.
 
Regenerated is the same as being birthed in the Spirit....we come Alive in Christ ,when we have been birthed ,...only God through the Spirit can birth us...we can’t birth ourselves...
 
Regeneration means the new birth , born again , born of the spirit , baptized by the spirit etc. This occurred at Pentecost
And it occurs to this day, being birthed in the Spirit...as you well know...it’s a supernatural “ Living” birth.
 
Assertion. Regeneration is not the baptism by the Spirit. They can happen simultaneously, but don't, usually.

We even have cases in the OT of the Spirit causing someone to prophesy who is not regenerated.
Regeneration is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who applies the work of Christ to the person----the new birth, born in Christ----as opposed to born in Adam. Therefore it is always "simultaneous." There is not a separate baptism by the Holy Spirit. What we see at Pentecost is the evidence of the Holy Spirit empowering for service---to spread the gospel----and the visible evidence that it goes to Gentiles as well as Jews.

In the OT it was not an indwelling of the Holy Spirit but an external action by Him to fulfill God's purpose.
 
The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.

Do you know what regeneration means?
What does it mean to you?

The Model T Ford had no power steering.
No power brakes.
No radio.
No air conditioning.
No windshield wipers.

Was the Model T an automobile to you?

Or, only our more advanced modern cars we have today are automobiles?

We became a New Creation in Christ.
The Model T believers of the OT ceased existing on earth.

Both are regenerate believers!
But, one much more advanced than the other in its function.

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away;
behold, all things have become new." 2 Cor 5:17​

The word "new" does not mean God makes us to become "like new."
It means something new that never existed before!

Our regeneration, and the OT regeneration are two different types of manifestations of regeneration!

OT regeneration took place when the Holy Spirit gave a person a human spirit with which he could perceive spiritual realities.

OT believers could believe in the resurrection. Job did!


“Oh, that my words were recorded,
that they were written on a scroll,
that they were inscribed with an iron tool on lead,
or engraved in rock forever!
I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
Job 19:23-27​


The disciples were simply being stupid about Jesus claim to resurrection.



.............
 
Regeneration means the new birth , born again , born of the spirit , baptized by the spirit etc. This occurred at Pentecost
WRONG! It simply means 'born again' - the Spirit begets a human spirit so we can know the things of God.

What was described at Pentecost was the New Creation in Christ that exceeds the abilities of the OT believers regeneration.
 
Assertion. Regeneration is not the baptism by the Spirit. They can happen simultaneously, but don't, usually.

We even have cases in the OT of the Spirit causing someone to prophesy who is not regenerated.
Why not say who it was?
 
WRONG! It simply means 'born again' - the Spirit begets a human spirit so we can know the things of God.

What was described at Pentecost was the New Creation in Christ that exceeds the abilities of the OT believers regeneration.
Wayne Grudem, in his Sytematic Theology, in the chapter on regeneration states, “This sovereign work of God in regeneration was also PREDICTED in the prophecy of Ezekiel. Through him God promised A TIME IN THE FUTURE when He would give new spiritual life to his people” (Grudem, page 699). These texts say, “a NEW SPIRIT I WILL (future) put WITHIN them…” These predictions mean that even Ezekiel was not regenerated, nor was any man prior to Ezekiel. And Ezekiel lived near the end of the OT time period!

Regeneration, the new birth , born again did not occur until Pentecost as Jesus promised in the gospels and Acts 1.

hope this helps !!!
 
WRONG! It simply means 'born again' - the Spirit begets a human spirit so we can know the things of God.

What was described at Pentecost was the New Creation in Christ that exceeds the abilities of the OT believers regeneration.
Nope you are equivocating and conflating .
 
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