• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

I abandoned my faith, maybe i have exchanged my faith

But God says it is

How am I born again.

Nicodemus even asked that question. How can this be? Jesus answered him

John 3:
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12& f I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.


1st point God came down from heaven

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,

2nd point, he takes us to the story Nicodemus would have known well.. the serpent. The serpent could have saved everyone, but it did not. why? those who believed looked and were saved, those who did not believe refused to look at died.

even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him

3rd point. Jesus would be lifted just as the bronze serpent (a type of Christ) was lifted up.

should not perish but have eternal life.


4th point. just like those who looked to the serpent lived. whoever looks to christ will live. But not this this, they will not die. and they have life (here is the new birth) this birth being forever.. ie. eternal security for the same on

1
6 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,

5th point. To reiterate the 3rd and 4th point. Just as moses bronze serpent was offered to all. Jesus is offered to all (the world) not just those who will be saved, but everyone

that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

6th point, a repeat of the 4th point. to drive his point home

that just like those in isreal were saved by believing Moses (in effect God) whoever believes these words of Jesus will not perish. but have new life (born again) and this life is eternal (again eternal security)


17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

again be saved is an aorist passive subjunctive word. it speaks of a period of time, where the work of God MAY save a person (it is not a person saving themselves. only the possibly they may be saved is there)
which brings us to the 7th point. Jesus was sent to the world (everyone) that they might (not will) be saved

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already,

8th poinit. reiterating once again. what must we do to be born again. Look in faith to the cross..look and you will be saved you will live,m your condemnation of death will be removed Those who do not look. just as the children of Isreal. will remain condemned)

because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


and here he drives the point home


it is not because we were not regenerated so we could have faith we are condemned. it is because we do not believe..

we did what the children of Israel who died did. We failed to look so we could be saved. even though the offer of salvation was ours for the taking. all we had to do was trust him.




God will not make your decision for you

If I did not have faith. I would not recieve. I would remain in unbelief and be lost

i never said this. once again,. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH sorry for talking loudly. but I am sick of being falsly accused.

No God brought me to my knees.. and I had a choice to make. we all do..



this makes no sense.

Both did

John 3 said it is after we look in faith we are given life

John 5 says it is after we see and believe we pass from death to life.



because you believed. or while you were still in unbelief?

look what jesus said..

Yet they do.



yes. By grace they have been saved. or made alive.

iuts all of grace, But god does not force us. he asks us to reciev in in faith (john 1 to recieve , John 3 to believe to look, john 4 to ask, john 5. to hear and believe, john 6. To work for food which endures. To come to himl, to believe, too eat the bread from heaven, to gnaw and chew on the flesh and blood (the words of live) even peter understood. we see and believe yuo have the words of eternal life.

,

romans 8 is the final act of the romans road..

If the spirit does not act on the dead. they will never believe. you see it. but do you really



again. its simple

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN


Titus 1: 2
in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

I use these verses to appose a legalistic gospel of works. But I think it fits ok here also (yes it is a cut and paste. i have used it alot lately. as usual they riun from these passages and will not even look into them, so they may not all apply here. if not forgove me )


read all these passages you see the same message

faith is not a work.. to say me trusting God and receiving him is me saving myself goes against the word of God

we are saved by Grace through faith. God does not force it on ue. He offeres it to us. like he offered it to the childrne in the wilderness

Those who trusted God lived

those who did not died

God di not force those who looked to live, He did not keep those who died from having the ability to believe.
I appreciate the amount of time you put into this. But throughout, even if your construction is valid (which I argue it is not) you have yet to show how some people do, and some people don't, come to him, when all are incapable of doing so, per Romans 8 and many other, perhaps less obvious, passages.

Your use of John 3 completely ignores the first, that Christ speaks of regeneration, before speaking of the serpent. They are not able to look to him, if God does not first enable them to do so. Regeneration.
 
Abandoned my faith

Here's a real shocker, not that anyone should care, but after all these years, I have abandoned my faith in Christ. True, life has been unbearable for me over the last years. You might even say... unfair. There has not been one day over this time that I haven't prayed that God would allow me to die… but that's not the reason I discarded my faith. Actually, this desertion of my faith took place quite some time ago. And I really have no particular reason as to why I'm going public with it now.

Just so I'm not misunderstood, I would like to give some background information on religion that I believe is not widely known. I'm not trying to influence others to abandon their faith; that's not my job. But I am trying to expose something that all religions must admit, or live in denial of.

As I see it, religions exist to answer the mother load of all questions: How do we get into heaven, assuming there is one? No matter which religion you choose, the answer will ultimately reduce to this: faith. Religious faith is the panacea of all eternal hopes. Yet not one religion can provide any objective, verifiable evidence that proves they are the right religion -- not Muslims, not Hindus, not a one.

It was this realization that made me take a closer look at Christianity. Working with the understanding that all religions operated on the basis of faith, I had to ask myself obvious questions: Why is Christianity any different? Is it? It was my passionate pursuit for an answer to this nagging question that forced me to abandon my faith. Let me shift my focus from religion to religious faith.

It may come as a surprise to most to know that Christianity is not based on faith; it's the only “religion” that can make that claim. Faith, and by faith I mean “religious faith,” is the ace trump of all religions. Rather than providing objective evidence for their truth claims, religious fanatics simply retreat to the impenetrable defense of “we don't need evidence; we have faith.” In other words, religion is not open to rational discourse or scientific investigation. As a self-imposed limitation then, all religions are based on speculation, wishful thinking, or are anti-rational.

One of the most important discoveries I made during my search for answers was that all religions require their followers to accept their fundamental, core beliefs by faith. This resulted in people believe very strange teachings. Worse yet, even faith in unverifiable claims. This proved true in every instance, with every religion, except one? With Christianity, such foolish faith, which I now call it, is to be rejected as speculative and sheer nonsense. Christianity made no claims to being founded on religious faith, nor does it require that its members accept the claims of Christianity by religious faith.

For example, why do I say Islam (since it is a religion) is based on faith in “unverifiable claims”? Here's why: because Mohammed's claim to have been visited by Gabriel the angel with a message from God is not open to verification. The same situation obtains with Mormonism as well. Neither of these religious founders provided their followers with objective verification of their claims, so all one is left to do is to accept their claims by faith or, of course, reject them.

This truth became an all-consuming preoccupation with me for quite a while. I simply couldn't get this out of my mind. All religions, I kept thinking, all religions are based on religious faith… all but one that is. Christianity never claimed to be based on religious faith, although some uninformed Christians do. But why? The answer has to do with the critical distinction between religious faith and biblical faith.

Unless the object of one's faith is subject to verification, a verification even open to skeptics, it is not biblical faith. Jesus never asked anyone to have religious faith in him!!! Please reread that last sentence. Please! In case you are in a hurry, let me repeat it again. Jesus never asked anyone to have religious faith in him!!! Don't ever forget that. Such a request would have been rightfully dismissed by any thinking person of his day, not only would it be rejected, but ought to be rejected.

All religions before and after Jesus invariably subscribe to one dominating, universal principle: “salvation” (whatever they conceive that to be) is based on religious faith or religious acts (being good, helping others, feeding the hungry, doing missionary time, jihad, etc). But in every religion it will be discovered that religious faith presents itself as biblical faith. But the two are at polar opposite ends of credibility.

When Christ denied this universal, religious phenomenon, I was sure I was onto something. Christ made a statement that had never been said before or after. It is found throughout the Gospels, but most directly stated by Christ in John 10:37

“If I do not perform the works of my Father (God), do not put your faith in me.”

This proposition has forever changed religion as we know it.

This seems so painfully simple as to need no further comment, but it may prove beneficial to make a few peripheral remarks.

Notice that Jesus demanded that people NOT put their faith in him, unless he could first demonstrate to their satisfaction that he was sent from God. And how does one do that? Well, not on the basis of religious faith! Otherwise, I could ask people to believe in me with equal validity as Christ!

In fact, Mohammed (founder of Islam) and Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism) did exactly that. Their religions are based on unverifiable claims. Neither of these guys could say, “Do not believe me unless I perform the works of God.” Why? They would have been immediately exposed as frauds. (Mohammed was asked to perform miracles to vindicate himself, but he declined to do so, leaving only the “supernatural” Qur'an as his only “miracle.” Unfortunately, the Qur'an is available to the public and therefore open to investigation. That is, its claim of being supernatural is easily discounted.)

So why did Jesus put himself in such a bind? This is where the story takes an unexpected turn.

Jesus actually did supernatural miracles to the satisfaction of his audience. For example, when asked by the disciples of John the Baptist whether or not he, Jesus, was the long-awaited Messiah, Jesus told John's disciples to return to John with the following message: The lame walk; the dead are resurrected. Nobody is denying this! All these miracles are being performed in public, open to objective verification by any skeptic. (anyone can claim to be God)

Why is that important? And where's the unexpected turn?

It was not only that Jesus performed miracles, but two other conditions had to be met. First, he had to do specific miracles that the Old Testament prophets said the Messiah would do. Second, and completely out of his control, he had to do these miracles at that exact moment in human history.

If you are not, you ought to be surprised by that answer. It's not something you read everyday, if ever. But keep this in mind: the Old Testament prophet Daniel foretold the exact moment in human history in which the Messiah would live, and that moment had to occur within weeks of the time Jesus was doing his miracles! Had Jesus not died on the very week he did, all bets were off. Jesus would have been a fraud, regardless of his unexplainable miracles (what atheists call singularities).



You see, folks, it's not just that Jesus did miracles; it's that he did predicted (very specific) miracles, miracles that were predicted literally hundreds of years before he was born. It's not just that he did miracles that were subject to verification by the skeptics of his day; it's that he demanded that nobody put their faith in him unless he did such miracles as could be verified. It's not just that he did all this; it's that he did all these predicted miracles WHEN he did them.

And now, this story takes yet another unexpected turn. And I mean unexpected.

The challenge Jesus made to those skeptics of his day is as much open to verification today as then. Anyone is free to examine the evidence. And if one is not convinced that Jesus is who he claimed to be, then on the authority of the word of God, I say, “Do NOT put your faith in him.” He will not hold you liable. All of which means, Jesus insists that you accept his claims, not on faith, but on objective, verifiable evidence.

It is another subject altogether, but for now, remember this: faith, biblical faith that is, is a response to evidence or reasoning. Evidence and rational thinking can only take a person so far. Once all the data is analyzed, a person is then asked to respond to it. Keep that in mind: faith is a response to the evidence!

Let me reiterate what I said earlier. Christianity is not based on religious faith. Religious faith has no place in Christianity. And why is that? Because Christianity must remain open to objective verification to all skeptics, and skeptics are not expected to have any kind of faith BEFORE they examine the evidence! And further, Christian faith is the opposite of religious faith. If you want to believe some religion on faith, join the Muslims or Mormons, or even the Hindus. But if you want to know the truth, examine the objective evidence. Don't believe anything that can not be proven! (Jesus never asked anyone to have faith in him! I defy anyone to show me anywhere in Scripture where Jesus asked someone to have religious faith in him. Remember, Jesus demanded that nobody put their faith in him unless he could prove himself to have been sent from God.)

Some people actually do turn to Christianity on the basis of religious faith. I did. But I have long since abandoned that. Yes, you can now see what I mean when I say that I have abandoned my faith in Christ. I have abandoned my religious faith in Christ and exchanged it for faith in the evidence. After all, the statement Jesus made, that nobody was to put their faith in him unless he could prove his claims, applies to me. To believe in anyone or anything before examining the evidence takes religious faith, the kind of faith every religion stands or falls on. But only Christ requires us to examine the evidence, and to have biblical faith in him if he can prove his claims.

If you are a Christian and base your belief in Christ on something other than the objective, verifiable evidence, then obey the command of Jesus himself and stop that! You are no different than a Muslim or Mormon, or New Age person.

With every ounce of creativity you can muster, try to imagine Mohammed or Joseph Smith, or any religious leader saying, “Do not believe me, unless I perform (specific, predicted) miracles from God.” Biblically, no one can. Why? Because they are all disqualified. Why? Because the only messenger God authenticated had to have lived in the first century per the Old Testament predictions! There is only one religious founder who qualified.
I kinda get it, but why the emphasis on verify ability of claims in your reasoning?? A miracle if Christ if you’d seen it yourself 2000 years ago would have convinced you, but it’s also true that today Christ doesn’t walk on the earth, except in the spiritual sense if Holy Spirit/indwelling issues or Bible memorization as an intellectual attainment. You didn’t witness the water being changed into wine at the wedding, you haven’t had a shot at walking in water in Galatea with him physically present in the fishing boat, and when Lazarus came forth your ancestors didn’t even live on this continent yet. Maricela are not a daily occurrence, if they were they would not be Maricela. But give your Bible study background some leeway, you must have read the entire thing while still a Christian believer. Face it, if you’ve left Christ worship you must be a baal worshiper! Or at least, you remember how that was true when you did attend church. Baal is described in exodus as a solid gold calf, the sane size as a year old cow, weighing in good as much as a life sized carving of a baby bull would do. Someone having that much solid gold just the sit on a pedestal and dance around feasting as baal worshipers do is a miracle? It would be the most good luck and good fortune to be so rich that you owned a solid gold full sized cow. Baal is a miracle. Be of good cheer, and resume the faith of the Israelites. Baal is real! He exists, and it’s verifiable from the pentetuch. That’s evidence enough of scripture, a solid gold cow-baby!
 
I appreciate the amount of time you put into this. But throughout, even if your construction is valid (which I argue it is not) you have yet to show how some people do, and some people don't, come to him,
Just look at the word

1. In Israel. God put the serpent up so all could be saved. Some believed and lived. some did not

i do not have to explain why. I just have to show it happened., the fac tthat it happened explains the how. They did not get saved because they did not believe. or they died and suffered the condemnation because they did not believe.\

which is what Jesus said in John 3: 18

2. Look at Israel. Especially John 6. Jesus had just fed 5000. The next day they came Jesus warned them not to work for food which perishes. but food which will give eternal life

Again, some believed some did not.

I do not have to explain why or how. The fact is. they were all given the message of salvation. And some believed and were saved. some did not and remained condemned

I can give many examples.



when all are incapable of doing so, per Romans 8 and many other, perhaps less obvious, passages.
Romans 8 does not say they are unable. it says they are carnal, and can not submit to God

the tax collector did nto submit to God. he cried out to God. like I did. and I assume you did
Your use of John 3 completely ignores the first, that Christ speaks of regeneration, before speaking of the serpent. They are not able to look to him, if God does not first enable them to do so. Regeneration.
why did jesus speak of the serpent?

because Nicodemus, after all Jesus said, still did not understand

How can these things be Nicodemus said.

Jesus explained how regeneration takes place and why.

start at verse 10 and go to verse 18. that is Jesus answer.

John 3 is Jesus making a statement of fact. Ye must be born again

Nicodemus questions. Then Jesus explains WHAT being born again means

Nicodemus still do not understand all. so he asked how

Jesus told him how..
 
1. In Israel. God put the serpent up so all could be saved. Some believed and lived. some did not

i do not have to explain why. I just have to show it happened., the fac tthat it happened explains the how. They did not get saved because they did not believe. or they died and suffered the condemnation because they did not believe.\
Jesus did explain why some believed and some didn't. How long are you going to ignore those scriptures?

John 10:25-29 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

John 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them."

John 6:64-65 But there are some of you who do not believe." (Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
 
Just look at the word

1. In Israel. God put the serpent up so all could be saved. Some believed and lived. some did not

i do not have to explain why. I just have to show it happened., the fac tthat it happened explains the how. They did not get saved because they did not believe. or they died and suffered the condemnation because they did not believe.\

which is what Jesus said in John 3: 18

2. Look at Israel. Especially John 6. Jesus had just fed 5000. The next day they came Jesus warned them not to work for food which perishes. but food which will give eternal life

Again, some believed some did not.

I do not have to explain why or how. The fact is. they were all given the message of salvation. And some believed and were saved. some did not and remained condemned
You continue to ignore the beginning of John 3. They are not able to believe unless they are born from above.
I can give many examples.




Romans 8 does not say they are unable. it says they are carnal, and can not submit to God

the tax collector did nto submit to God. he cried out to God. like I did. and I assume you did

why did jesus speak of the serpent?

because Nicodemus, after all Jesus said, still did not understand

How can these things be Nicodemus said.

Jesus explained how regeneration takes place and why.

start at verse 10 and go to verse 18. that is Jesus answer.

John 3 is Jesus making a statement of fact. Ye must be born again

Nicodemus questions. Then Jesus explains WHAT being born again means

Nicodemus still do not understand all. so he asked how

Jesus told him how..
You still have not shown how the carnal (as you define Romans 8's "mind controlled by the flesh") is able to please God. How do you suppose you cried out to God? Do you not know that something happened to you to cause that?

"Apart from me you can do nothing!" is not hyperbole.
 
Romans 8 does not say they are unable. it says they are carnal, and can not submit to God
I would say 'can not submit to God' and 'they are unable' are pretty much the same thing.
 
Could be, see #58

I'm missing the detail you want me to see. Do you mean the 'latter years'? Well there's nothing to say that's about us today. To the original reader, it would be after captivity.
 
I don't either. Did I mention secular restoration at any time?

Again, it depends on if you were directing attention to 'the latter years.' The pop eschatology view is that a secular restoration (which is what 1948 is) would 'count' as amazing fulfilled prophecy.

To illustrate the contradiction of this, the EXODUS movie featured a Marxist terrorist capturing freighters to get Jews to Israel in the late 40s, but the Christian network TBN ran the movie every month anyway. Or there's the doc about cleaning up the rubble of the King David hotel bombing, and a rabbi claiming to have found a stone with the ancient Hebrew term 'cornerstone' inscribed on it. He said it was proof of the coming temple. Regardless of how the NT used Ps 118.
 
I'm missing the detail you want me to see. Do you mean the 'latter years'? Well there's nothing to say that's about us today. To the original reader, it would be after captivity.
Are you saying the 'latter years' were circa 538 BC, even before Christ's first coming?
 
Again, it depends on if you were directing attention to 'the latter years.' The pop eschatology view is that a secular restoration (which is what 1948 is) would 'count' as amazing fulfilled prophecy.

To illustrate the contradiction of this, the EXODUS movie featured a Marxist terrorist capturing freighters to get Jews to Israel in the late 40s, but the Christian network TBN ran the movie every month anyway. Or there's the doc about cleaning up the rubble of the King David hotel bombing, and a rabbi claiming to have found a stone with the ancient Hebrew term 'cornerstone' inscribed on it. He said it was proof of the coming temple. Regardless of how the NT used Ps 118.
That's all straw.
 
Back
Top