Is belief a choice?

[fastfredy0]

Ill try to explain this more shortly. Have to run out with my wife. I'll be back.

I know our theology is very similar ... I think it's semantics; which probably means your right.
Aside: I like math more the English.

 

[David1701]

Choosing of their own volition, as opposed to God decreeing/ordaining their decision.

That's a false dichotomy; and it doesn't answer my question. Anyway, here's another.

Is unregenerate man's will free from righteousness?

 

[David1701]

Re: Everyone who has heard the salvific message has the ability to choose (select from possible alternatives) to believe leading to salvation.

Romans 8:7 the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God’s law, since it cannot,
The verse shows God has determined the choice that we freely make. It may sound contradictory or lawyerly but put another way ... God convinced men to not believe in Him via giving man a depraved nature. Man still makes the choice, man still does what he desires most according to his depraved nature. God controls man's desires and therefore man in such a way that man gets to choose what he desires most concerning salvation. God regenerates a man and he will choose to believe salvificly.
Analogy ... you don't care for spinach and would NEVER choose to do so ... unless I offer you 10K to eat some. You now freely choose to eat the spinach. You choose and I control what you choose.

Aside: I think the question might better be phrased:

Is belief a choice [controlled entirely by God]?​

Choice: To select from a number of possible alternatives; decide on and pick out.

Faith is not a choice at all, any more than your heart pumping blood round your body is a choice. It either pumps, and you live, or it doesn't, and you're dead.

Mental assent is a choice, but faith is much more than that. It is not a decision based upon evidence, but the autonomic fruit of a new heart.

 

[fastfredy0]

Mental assent is a choice, but faith is much more than that. It is not a decision based upon evidence, but the autonomic fruit of a new heart.

Your definition is too obtuse to comment upon. It doesn't have much to do with "is faith a choice" IMO

Faith is not a choice at all

I disagree. Go to a dictionary URL, present its definition and we'll see where it goes.

 

[PeanutGallery]

That's a false dichotomy; ...

How so? Either man chooses of his own volition, or God decrees his choice; unless compatibilism is another option, which is also decreed by God.

Is unregenerate man's will free from righteousness?

Did you mean 'free from unrighteousness'? An evil man can do righteous deed; but no one can be saved by their own righteousness.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

The plethora of choices necessary to absent an articulate explanation, followed by the plethora of choices necessary to not act on said "belief," betray any possibility any claim of belief as choice has any veracity. Therefore, I am inclined to say to anyone who claims belief is a choice,

"Show me."

It's a Catch-22 and I'm not going to explain that (yet) because I suspect many won't understand the "catch".

Would you be willing to critically engage my comment (here) and demonstrate how my belief is not a choice? I was claiming that my belief is a choice, but you deny "any possibility [that] any claim of belief as choice has any veracity."

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

An evil man can do righteous deeds ...

Apart from God?

 

[prism]

Is belief a choice?​

I believe it is a choice based on the prior conviction that one is a sinner (by the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and God's Word); and then upon conviction of one's sinfulness, the opening of one's eyes to the Son (Mt 16:17)
But no, no one can believe on their own.

 

[PeanutGallery]

Apart from God?

Scripture states that evil men can do good things.
Matt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Scripture states that evil men can do good things.

Matt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Okay, but that is not what you said—and, thus, not what my response targeted.

You said, "An evil man can do righteous deeds" (here).

"Apart from God?" I asked.

The answer, of course, is that evil men cannot do righteous deeds apart from God. And I hope you would agree.

Can evil men do good things? I guess that depends on how you are defining good.

 

[Ritajanice]

I choose chocolate ice cream because I prefer it. Period. The preference is the "evidence" by which I choose, and preference is never forced.

I choose to believe because I prefer it. Preference is never forced.
It's about disposition, not intellect.
Intellect then sorts out what the disposition prefers and has chosen.

Disposition "owns" it, even when it doesn't understand it.
That "ownership" is the power of insight and understanding.

I had NO Choice to Believe ...I was birthed in the Spirit..of course Jesus came first, even then I believe God drew me to believe in him......I wasn’t even thinking about Jesus at the time.....then “ BOOM” he was in my thoughts.....where did that come from...I tell you where...it came from God...

Everyone has their own testimony..no one can prove they have been birthed in the Spirit....but I do know...you don’t belong to God , unless one is Born Again....I don’t understand this not knowing one is Born Again or doubting that one is Born again....it makes no sense to me...you are either birthed in the Spirit or you aren’t, period...that’s my opinion and belief.

 

[PeanutGallery]

...
"Apart from God?" I asked.

The answer, of course, is that evil men cannot do righteous deeds apart from God. And I hope you would agree.

Can evil men do good things? I guess that depends on how you are defining good.

Evil men can do good things as opposed to evil things; 'apart from God' in what way? God gave us life, a conscience, choice; is that what you mean?

 

[David1701]

Your definition is too obtuse to comment upon. It doesn't have much to do with "is faith a choice" IMO


I disagree. Go to a dictionary URL, present its definition and we'll see where it goes.

My post said that faith is not a choice. How can you possibly claim that that "doesn't have much to do with "is faith a choice""!?

[*Thayer's Lexicon* (linked to Strong's numbers)]
4102 pistis {pis'-tis} from 3982; 1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it 1a) relating to God 1a1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ 1b) relating to Christ 1b1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God 1c) the religious beliefs of Christians 1d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same 2) fidelity, faithfulness 2a) the character of one who can be relied on


There is precisely NOTHING in the above definitions about choice.

If you think that faith is the result of man's choice, then show the Greek lexicon that says so, and/or the Bible verses that say so.

By the way, my definition was not "obtuse" at all; it was based on my experience, when God saved me. Perhaps you think that you were saved because of a choice that you made, but I don't.

 

[David1701]

How so? Either man chooses of his own volition, or God decrees his choice; unless compatibilism is another option, which is also decreed by God.

God decrees everything that happens (he works all things according to the counsel of his own will), including that man's choices are without external coercion (i.e. he is free to act according to his nature).

Did you mean 'free from unrighteousness'? An evil man can do righteous deed; but no one can be saved by their own righteousness.

I meant what the Bible says.

Rom. 6:20,21 (MKJV)
20 For when you were the slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in those things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

 

[fastfredy0]

My post said that faith is not a choice. How can you possibly claim that that "doesn't have much to do with "is faith a choice""!?

[*Thayer's Lexicon* (linked to Strong's numbers)]
4102 pistis {pis'-tis} from 3982; 1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it 1a) relating to God 1a1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ 1b) relating to Christ 1b1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God 1c) the religious beliefs of Christians 1d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same 2) fidelity, faithfulness 2a) the character of one who can be relied on


There is precisely NOTHING in the above definitions about choice.

If you think that faith is the result of man's choice, then show the Greek lexicon that says so, and/or the Bible verses that say so.

By the way, my definition was not "obtuse" at all; it was based on my experience, when God saved me. Perhaps you think that you were saved because of a choice that you made, but I don't.

I think we have miscommunication .. so I am going to let it go.

 

[Eleanor]

My post said that faith is not a choice. How can you possibly claim that that "doesn't have much to do with "is faith a choice""!?

[*Thayer's Lexicon* (linked to Strong's numbers)]
4102 pistis {pis'-tis} from 3982; 1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it 1a) relating to God 1a1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ 1b) relating to Christ 1b1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God 1c) the religious beliefs of Christians 1d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same 2) fidelity, faithfulness 2a) the character of one who can be relied on


There is precisely NOTHING in the above definitions about choice.

If you think that faith is the result of man's choice, then show the Greek lexicon that says so, and/or the Bible verses that say so.

By the way, my definition was not "obtuse" at all; it was based on my experience, when God saved me. Perhaps you think that you were saved because of a choice that you made, but I don't.

It was a choice in that you willingly assented to, went along with it, not in that you picked it out of a line-up.

 

[Carbon]

It was a choice in that you willingly assented to, went along with it.

Of course

 

[civic]

I know our theology is very similar ... I think it's semantics; which probably means your right.
Aside: I like math more the English.

I like Theology more than math and english.

 

[Eleanor]

I like Theology more than math and english.

I like Bible more than all of them.

 

[civic]

I like Bible more than all of them.

That is actually what I meant to say I should of made myself more clear.