Is belief a choice?

[brightfame52]

Evil men can do good things as opposed to evil things; 'apart from God' in what way? God gave us life, a conscience, choice; is that what you mean?

Not in things pertaining to salvation and a right relationship with God, in that sense none by nature does good Ps 14:1,3

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Matt 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rom 3:20

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
All of our righteousness's [plural] are filthy rags before God Isa 64:6
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Righteousness's here means our righteous acts, our good moral conduct, they are invalid and wicked when it comes to obtaining salvation and a right relationship with God

Mans conscience by nature when it comes to righteousness before God is seared and defiled !

 

[PeanutGallery]

Not in things pertaining to salvation and a right relationship with God, in that sense none by nature does good Ps 14:1,3

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Right; no one can save themselves. The fool holds the truth in unrighteousness; however, not all are fools.

 

[PeanutGallery]

God decrees everything that happens (he works all things according to the counsel of his own will), including that man's choices are without external coercion (i.e. he is free to act according to his nature).

His nature being decreed by God, so that he can do no other; sounds like that came from theology.

I meant what the Bible says.

Rom. 6:20,21 (MKJV)
20 For when you were the slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in those things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

Here's the context; Christians who yielded to sin and needed to repent. Unless you had in mind that God decreed that the Christians serve sin, then decreed them to repent.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

 

[GeneZ]

Okay, but that is not what you said—and, thus, not what my response targeted.

You said, "An evil man can do righteous deeds" (here).

"Apart from God?" I asked.

The answer, of course, is that evil men cannot do righteous deeds apart from God. And I hope you would agree.

Can evil men do good things? I guess that depends on how you are defining good.

That is what it means when it says Adam dropped us on our heads into a world of "good and evil."

Good and evil are the guidelines used to keep order in a world consisting of both regenerate and unregenerate.
Keeping the laws is good. Breaking the laws is evil.

But we find good and evil everywhere. Mommy says, 'bad boy!" later... "good boy!."

Christians who learn of spiritual truths do not have to think in terms of good and evil.
If they walk in righteousness? (filling of the Spirit and truth) They walk according to 'life.'
Not good and evil.

Now choices Christians make can be either according to the terms of good and evil.
Or...
Life and death. Righteousness, or the flesh.


The flesh returns to the Christian's thinking to the realm of 'good and evil.'

In contrast...

Righteousness continues forward into discovering more and more truth from God to become refreshed
and having a capacity for living.


grace and peace ..............

 

[brightfame52]

Right; no one can save themselves. The fool holds the truth in unrighteousness; however, not all are fools.

By nature we are all fools and hold the truth in unrighteousness. None do good and that applies to all

 

[PeanutGallery]

By nature we are all fools and hold the truth in unrighteousness. None do good and that applies to all

Righteous Abel offered an excellent sacrifice, and there was just Lot, perfect upright Job, many listed in Hebrews 11, then there is Lydia and Cornelius who feared God; not all are fools who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

At the same time, none have done good to save themselves..

 

[David1701]

It was a choice in that you willingly assented to, went along with it, not in that you picked it out of a line-up.

Yes, I certainly assented to the faith I was given, but that choice came after faith. There was no choice on my part that resulted in my faith - it was a gift from God.

 

[David1701]

His nature being decreed by God, so that he can do no other; sounds like that came from theology.



Here's the context; Christians who yielded to sin and needed to repent. Unless you had in mind that God decreed that the Christians serve sin, then decreed them to repent.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

That is NOT the context. We were slaves to sin when we were UNBELIEVERS, not as Christians!

 

[brightfame52]

Righteous Abel offered an excellent sacrifice, and there was just Lot, perfect upright Job, many listed in Hebrews 11, then there is Lydia and Cornelius who feared God; not all are fools who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

At the same time, none have done good to save themselves..

Abel didn't do that by nature, by nature abel is included in the non doeth good. Does scripture say Ps 14:3

They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, except Abel ?

Same for lydia and Cornelius, does scripture say Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good,except Lydia and Cornelius and Peanut Gallery ?

 

[PeanutGallery]

That is NOT the context. We were slaves to sin when we were UNBELIEVERS, not as Christians!

Christians:
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

 

[PeanutGallery]

Abel didn't do that by nature, by nature abel is included in the non doeth good. Does scripture say Ps 14:3...

Fools; not all are fools.

 

[brightfame52]

Christians:
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

A slave to sin is when unregenerate people seek salvation by their works, some of the most moral, religious people in the world are slaves to sin, because they condition salvation on what they do or dont do.

 

[brightfame52]

Fools; not all are fools.

By nature we are Rom 1:21

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

We by nature dont understand God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[PeanutGallery]

A slave to sin is when unregenerate people seek salvation by their works, some of the most moral, religious people in the world are slaves to sin, because they condition salvation on what they do or dont do.

Would that not make those who seek salvation by their works, slaves to the law?

 

[PeanutGallery]

By nature we are Rom 1:21

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

We by nature dont understand God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Again, fools who hold the truth in unrighteousness; not all are fools.

 

[brightfame52]

Would that not make those who seek salvation by their works, slaves to the law?

Slave to sin. Being in unbelief is a slave to sin. Jesus told some of the most religious people of his day, they were servants of sin Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

 

[Carbon]

Carbon said:
psychologically speaking, saving faith, just as well as any other kind of faith, is forced consent.

Premise 1: Force is a "power made operative against resistance; exertion."
Premise 2: Carbon has salvific faith
Conclusion: Carbon is being "forced" to believe salvificly as we speak.

Question: So, you feel someone is 'forcing' you to believe now? That you are currently "resisting"?

28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” John 6. Do you agree God gives His chosen ones that which He required of them? God creates, in His chosen ones, the capacity to believe in the moment of regeneration. Through regeneration, we are given evidence, we can see the kingdom (Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3.) It is by grace we are saved (Eph 2:8) Irresistible grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, fools who hold the truth in unrighteousness; not all are fools.

Everyone is a fool by nature and holds the truth in unrighteousness, thats a characteristic of the unregenerate Rom 1:18ff

 

[PeanutGallery]

Everyone is a fool by nature and holds the truth in unrighteousness, thats a characteristic of the unregenerate Rom 1:18ff

The ones who live by faith are not fools.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

 

[Carbon]

It's also God's work in man which underlines man's turning from sin to God in sincere repentance. When a man turns over a new leaf and forsakes his wicked ways, and begins to walk the road of salvation, this activity on man's part is the outcome of the powerful and irresistible operation of the Holy Spirit in the inward parts. In conversion, man makes a radical turn. He breaks with sin and turns to God. Yet, the main actor in this conversion is not man, but God.

And since it is God who causes the man to begin to walk the narrow way. Without this divine grace, it is impossible for man to turn to God of his own. Without first being regenerated, it is utterly impossible to take one step toward God. Scripture teaches such.
18 Then we shall not turn back from you;
give us life, and we will call upon your name!
19 Restore us, O Lord God of hosts!
Let your face shine, that we may be saved! Psalm 80.

Restore us to yourself, O Lord, that we may be restored!
Renew our days as of old— Lam 5:21

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. John 6.