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Is belief a choice?

Carbon

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Are there many here who do not like or accept Calvinism? For those who do not, do you think it is a Christian system? If not, what is suggested for the Calvinist who thinks he’s Christian? Or is it the other way around?
And the anti-Calvinist’s are wrong,
This could be quite confusing for many people.

Well I personally do not believe that any man has the ability to choose to believe. I mean. How can someone choose to believe anything?
You might like something and think it is interesting but if there really is no evidence? Why would anyone or should I say, how can anyone believe it. Can someone make themselves believe? I don’t think so.

How can someone believe then? "They must have evidence."And by another person explaining something to you is not evidence, that’s information. Which puts it right back at the beginning again.

So how do we get evidence? I think in this may be the answer. From reading/studying and thinking it over, I believed in Jesus because it became evident that he was who the scripture says he was, I just knew he was.
Not because people told me who he was or what he did. If I had to believe, or, “make myself believe” I don’t know if I could have gone it. I mean, how?
 
Are there many here who do not like or accept Calvinism?...
...
Well I personally do not believe that any man has the ability to choose to believe. I mean. How can someone choose to believe anything?...
Are you implying that God has decreed/ordained me to believe that Calvinism is unacceptable?
 
Are there many here who do not like or accept Calvinism? For those who do not, do you think it is a Christian system? If not, what is suggested for the Calvinist who thinks he’s Christian? Or is it the other way around?
And the anti-Calvinist’s are wrong,
This could be quite confusing for many people.

Well I personally do not believe that any man has the ability to choose to believe. I mean. How can someone choose to believe anything?
You might like something and think it is interesting but if there really is no evidence? Why would anyone or should I say, how can anyone believe it. Can someone make themselves believe? I don’t think so.

How can someone believe then? "They must have evidence."And by another person explaining something to you is not evidence, that’s information. Which puts it right back at the beginning again.

So how do we get evidence? I think in this may be the answer. From reading/studying and thinking it over, I believed in Jesus because it became evident that he was who the scripture says he was, I just knew he was.
Not because people told me who he was or what he did. If I had to believe, or, “make myself believe” I don’t know if I could have gone it. I mean, how?
Interesting way of putting it.
 
I did NOT choose to believe in Jesus, I was drawn by God to believe in Jesus, then he birthed me in the Spirit...

He did it out of his grace and mercy...plus to use me for his own purpose...that is my belief 100%......and obviously to glorify his name.....

Come on man.....who else could / can birth us in the Spirit....only God...it’s a supernatural act....mind blowing!!!
 
I think it is safe to say, faith always follows the judgment of the intellect as to, whether a thing is true. It is never a product of the will. Men never believe a thing because they like to believe it, or because they resolve to believe it.
After all, all people, time and time again believe things that they do not like at all, just because they are forced to acknowledge these reports as reality. So, psychologically speaking, saving faith, just as well as any other kind of faith, is forced consent.
 
Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?
Why ask me something only God can answer? Do you not want to discuss the op? You don't have to, you can start another thread if you like.

You know I don't always agree with you but you're a sensible person who has some great stuff to add. I look forward to that. :)
 
Are there many here who do not like or accept Calvinism?
One of us anyway.
For those who do not, do you think it is a Christian system?
Calvinism (or any other "ISM") is a "theological systematic" based on AN INTERPRETATION of what the Bible says. like any "theology" created by humans, some of it is accurate, and some of it isn't.

Neither "Calvinism" or any other "ism" has anything to do with whether a person is a "Born Again Christian" or not, since being Born again is a personal exchange between a human and God facilitated by the Holy Spirit, who CONVICTS OF SIN, and of Judgement. no "theology" required. Paul in his "Evangelization mode" says that he "knows nothing EXCEPT Jesus, and Him Crucified. Good enough for Paul, good enough for me.
This could be quite confusing for many people.
"Theology" is confusing regardless of the specific form thereof.
Well I personally do not believe that any man has the ability to choose to believe.
This is accurate. ONLY under "Conviction of SIN" is an appropriate response even possible. Otherwise it's nothing but a "Religious exercise".
How can someone believe then?
It takes the Holy Spirit to break into a person's consciousness, and CONVICT (convince beyond the shadow of a doubt) that there's a SIN ISSUE (john 16:8), and that that Jesus' Sacrifice on the cross is the solution. OTHERWISE there's a JUDGEMENT COMING with two possible outcomes, only ONE of which is good.

"Conviction" from the Holy Spirit is also the source of FAITH (the Hearing of God's WORD BY THE person - Rom 10:17). The HEARING OF FAITH is a Biblical concept (Gal 3:2-5)

What "Calvinism" gets absolutely right, is that EVERYTHING STARTS WITH GOD. If God doesn't "DRAW" nobody will ever come.
 
One of us anyway.

Calvinism (or any other "ISM") is a "theological systematic" based on AN INTERPRETATION of what the Bible says. like any "theology" created by humans, some of it is accurate, and some of it isn't.

Neither "Calvinism" or any other "ism" has anything to do with whether a person is a "Born Again Christian" or not, since being Born again is a personal exchange between a human and God facilitated by the Holy Spirit, who CONVICTS OF SIN, and of Judgement. no "theology" required. Paul in his "Evangelization mode" says that he "knows nothing EXCEPT Jesus, and Him Crucified. Good enough for Paul, good enough for me.

"Theology" is confusing regardless of the specific form thereof.

This is accurate. ONLY under "Conviction of SIN" is an appropriate response possible. Otherwise it's nothing but a "Religious exercise".

It takes the Holy Spirit to break into a person's consciousness, and CONVICT (convince beyond the shadow of a doubt) that there's a SIN ISSUE (john 16:8), and that that Jesus' Sacrifice on the cross is the solution. OTHERWISE there's a JUDGEMENT COMING with two possible outcomes, only ONE of which is good.

"Conviction" from the Holy Spirit is also the source of FAITH (the Hearing of God's WORD BY THE person - Rom 10:17). The HEARING OF FAITH is a Biblical concept (Gal 3:2-5)
Hi bob,

You and I have had these types of discussions before, and they always seem to lead, from your end to decisional regeneration. You do agree?

But one error I see in your theology is, it is man-centered and you have people doing what God says they cannot do. ie, in their fallen, sinful at enmity state, they can choose Christ.
 
Hi bob,

You and I have had these types of discussions before, and they always seem to lead, from your end to decisional regeneration. You do agree?
ASSUMING that your "Buzz word" (decisional regeneration) means that at some point in the transaction necessary for a person to become "Born Again" and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, the PERSON so affected by Conviction of SIN and of Judgement must make a PERSONAL DECISION to Surrender, and repent, calling upon God in FAITH for salvation, then under those circumstances I Agree completely.

PERSONALLY, since "Regeneration" is an essentially meaningless religious term with many definitions, I never use it in the context of being "Born Again" by the Holy Spirit.
But one error I see in your theology is, it is man-centered
Totally Inaccurate. There's nothing "Man-centered" about it. it doesn't START with man, Man is incapable of self-generating "FAITH", and the only thing that MAN, in his own free will, does is Surrender and Repent.

Did YOU become a Christian without making a decision to trust God's WORD TO YOU??
and you have people doing what God says they cannot do. ie, in their fallen, sinful at enmity state, they can choose Christ.
Which, of course, is all based on the "Calvinist theology" of "Total depravity" which is at least partially inaccurate. Calvin apparently thought that "Natural man" couldn't even HEAR, or be aware of God. But the OLD testament is full of instances in which natural man not only HEARD God, but worked MIRACLES in God's power, and spoke HIS WORD to nations and kings.
 
Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?
Why ask me something only God can answer?...
Is God's decree, that I should or should not believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?
...
So how do we get evidence? I think in this may be the answer. From reading/studying and thinking it over, I believed in Jesus because it became evident that he was who the scripture says he was, I just knew he was.
...
That is circular reasoning, as I also can state:
Those who read, study, think, and believe scripture conclude that Calvinism is unacceptable.
 
Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?
It's absolutely consistent.

A similar example would be God decreeing to harden Pharaoh's heart, so that he refused to let Israel go, in spite of numerous warnings and plagues from God. When he finally did let them go, after all the firstborn in Egypt were killed, he pursued Israel, to destroy them; but, instead, God destroyed him and his whole army.

They were destroyed with a deluge of water, and, as we know, water is sometimes used as a symbol of God's word.
 
Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?
It's absolutely consistent...
Would you not agree that the OP is an academic exercise, since one can only read, study, think, and believe what God has decreed/ordained?
 
Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?

Would you not agree that the OP is an academic exercise, since one can only read, study, think, and believe what God has decreed/ordained?
You won't necessarily remain that way (only God knows); and, we need to tell people the truth, whether they will listen or refuse.
 
Totally Inaccurate. There's nothing "Man-centered" about it. it doesn't START with man, Man is incapable of self-generating "FAITH", and the only thing that MAN, in his own free will, does is Surrender and Repent.
Not inaccurate at all Bob.
Did YOU become a Christian without making a decision to trust God's WORD TO YOU??
Christian is a name given to the first people to follow Christ. So, for this, I will use the word believer, it's more accurate to your question. Are you alright with that? And the answer is yes, I did become a believer without making a decision for Christ. And if I didn't become a believer, I never would have trusted Christ. To put the cart before the horse, as you seem to be doing is a fairy tale.

Which, of course, is all based on the "Calvinist theology" of "Total depravity" which is at least partially inaccurate.
Well since Calvin agreed with the bible on this doctrine, it isn't based on Calvinism.
Calvin apparently thought that "Natural man" couldn't even HEAR, or be aware of God. But the OLD testament is full of instances in which natural man not only HEARD God, but worked MIRACLES in God's power, and spoke HIS WORD to nations and kings.
The natural man does not accept the things of God, he is unable to.
 
Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?

Is God's decree, that I should or should not believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?

That is circular reasoning, as I also can state:
Those who read, study, think, and believe scripture conclude that Calvinism is unacceptable.
Thank you for your opinion. :)
 
Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?

Would you not agree that the OP is an academic exercise, since one can only read, study, think, and believe what God has decreed/ordained?
Stick around, pull up a chair, and relax for a while. You do like to learn also, don't you? And, I'd like to hear more from you about how faith is really just a wish.. :giggle:
 
There is a tree in my yard. That is a fact. Whether I believe it or not.
There are many reasons why I could deny that fact. I could be blind. I could be rebellious and argumentative (not a tree, that is a little stunted shrub!) I could be imaginative, thoughtful, "life is but a dream, therefore trees do not really exist"
That doesn't change the fact. What I choose to believe, or accept/deny, argue or conceptually philosophize does not change the fact.
The tree still exists and that is a fact. I cannot "choose" otherwise.

The tree still exists, whether I believe it or not.
So how are we convinced of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)?
We are convinced of God by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
It is not my seeing, believing, philosophizing
It is by the grace of God that I believe.
 
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