Romans 8:29-30 What Does "Foreknew" Mean?

[Arial]

"For those who he foreknew he also predestines to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

This verse is the subject of much controversy in discussions on Reformed theology vs Arminianism. The latter insists that it means God knew beforehand who would choose Christ and these he predestined to be conformed to his image. They simply use the definition of "foreknew" to do so. But is that all that must be considered here? And is a preferred and held belief imposing that into the Scripture when there is no reason to ever mess with the plain words? Is that what Paul meant when he wrote it?

I do not believe it is what Paul was saying at all, and I doubt that those receiving his letter and this teaching, ever even considered that he was. It was heretical teachings of Pelagius, (and others I am sure but that is perhaps the most well known) that scattered those seeds among the wheat----and they grew til we have a large portion of the church abandoning the determination by the traditional church that it was heretical and embraced the heresy in its many forms. And though there are many forms, each one has the same core. God does not choose who to save, but man chooses whether to believe and be saved or not.

Let's look at the actual set of scriptures without the eisegesis.

It says God foreknew "those". He knew them. And he knew them before he created the world. (Eph 1:3-10) He knew them----not who would believe, but those he chose in him before the foundation of the world. And these he predestined to be conformed to Christ's image.

And those he predestined he also called. That Greek word translated "called" is the same one translated "summoned". If his foreknowledge only amounted to something he knew because he knows all things and so he knew who would choose Christ, there is no need to predestine or summon.

It has also been said in this forum, that justification must come before regeneration. That is clearly shown to not be the case by this passage alone, though of course, it is not alone. The scriptures are full in refuting that claim, beginning with what happened to us through Adam and vividly described in Romans 1 and 2. This passage shows that it is not our faith that justifies us, but it is the grace of God through faith he gives (Eph 2:8), which then becomes ours as a possession, not as generated or sustained, by us, but by God. We (the elect) are justified by God in his electing, predestining, summoning. There is nothing that is of man's doing in there. And this verified in John 1:12; John 3:3-15; John 6:43-44,65; John 10:14-18, 24-30.

 

[Eleanor]

"For those who he foreknew he also predestines to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

Foreknowledge (prognosis) when used of God in the NT refers to his foreknowledge of his eternal decrees (Ac 15:18).

Those whom he "foreknew" are those whom he had previously decreed to be the elect.

This verse is the subject of much controversy in discussions on Reformed theology vs Arminianism. The latter insists that it means God knew beforehand who would choose Christ and these he predestined to be conformed to his image. They simply use the definition of "foreknew" to do so. But is that all that must be considered here? And is a preferred and held belief imposing that into the Scripture when there is no reason to ever mess with the plain words? Is that what Paul meant when he wrote it?

I do not believe it is what Paul was saying at all, and I doubt that those receiving his letter and this teaching, ever even considered that he was. It was heretical teachings of Pelagius, (and others I am sure but that is perhaps the most well known) that scattered those seeds among the wheat----and they grew til we have a large portion of the church abandoning the determination by the traditional church that it was heretical and embraced the heresy in its many forms. And though there are many forms, each one has the same core. God does not choose who to save, but man chooses whether to believe and be saved or not.

Let's look at the actual set of scriptures without the eisegesis.

It says God foreknew "those". He knew them. And he knew them before he created the world. (Eph 1:3-10) He knew them----not who would believe, but those he chose in him before the foundation of the world. And these he predestined to be conformed to Christ's image.

And those he predestined he also called. That Greek word translated "called" is the same one translated "summoned". If his foreknowledge only amounted to something he knew because he knows all things and so he knew who would choose Christ, there is no need to predestine or summon.

It has also been said in this forum, that justification must come before regeneration. That is clearly shown to not be the case by this passage alone, though of course, it is not alone. The scriptures are full in refuting that claim, beginning with what happened to us through Adam and vividly described in Romans 1 and 2. This passage shows that it is not our faith that justifies us, but it is the grace of God through faith he gives (Eph 2:8), which then becomes ours as a possession, not as generated or sustained, by us, but by God. We (the elect) are justified by God in his electing, predestining, summoning. There is nothing that is of man's doing in there. And this verified in John 1:12; John 3:3-15; John 6:43-44,65; John 10:14-18, 24-30.

 

[Arial]

Foreknowledge (prognosis) when used of God in the NT refers to his foreknowledge of his eternal decrees.

Those whom he "foreknew" are those whom he had previously decreed to be the elect.

Agreed. There is no reason in Pau's statement that he means anything less than or other than that, since God is the one who created all things and through whom all things exist, (as is Jesus---a statement of his deity)(ignore that as it is a rabbit trail) and therefore his omniscience is not just seeing all things, but of necessity, decreeing all things. No reason to project that foreknowledge in that sentence refers to simple knowledge as in awareness of. It means he knew them, intimately and personally, and he knew them in this way before he created them. I personally believe that he created them for the purpose of giving them to Christ.

 

[fastfredy0]

The word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.” If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot point whether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons. It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found:

The first occurrence is in Acts 2:23. There we read, “Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” If careful attention is paid to the wording of this verse, it will be seen that the Apostle was not there speaking of God’s foreknowledge of the act of the crucifixion, but of the Person crucified: “Him [Christ] being delivered by...”

The second occurrence is in Romans 8:29-30 “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called.” Weigh well the pronoun that is used here. It is not what He did foreknow, but whom He did. It is not the surrendering of their wills nor the believing of their hearts, but the persons themselves, that are here in view.

“God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew”—(Romans 11:2). Once more the plain reference is to persons, and to persons only.

The last mention is in 1 Peter 1:2 “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.” Who are “elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father”? The previous verse tells us: the reference is to the “strangers scattered,” i.e., the Diaspora, the Dispersion, the believing Jews. Thus, here too the reference is to persons, and not to their foreseen acts.

Now in view of these passages (and there are no more) what Scriptural ground is there for anyone saying God “foreknew” the acts of certain ones, viz., their “repenting and believing,” and that because of those acts He elected them unto salvation? The answer is: None whatever. Scripture never speaks of repentance and faith as being foreseen or foreknown by God. Truly, He did know from all eternity that certain ones would repent and believe, yet this is not what Scripture refers to as the object of God’s foreknowledge. The word uniformly refers to God’s foreknowing persons.
A.W.Pink

 

[Arial]

The word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.” If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot point whether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons. It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found:

The first occurrence is in Acts 2:23. There we read, “Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” If careful attention is paid to the wording of this verse, it will be seen that the Apostle was not there speaking of God’s foreknowledge of the act of the crucifixion, but of the Person crucified: “Him [Christ] being delivered by...”

The second occurrence is in Romans 8:29-30 “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called.” Weigh well the pronoun that is used here. It is not what He did foreknow, but whom He did. It is not the surrendering of their wills nor the believing of their hearts, but the persons themselves, that are here in view.

“God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew”—(Romans 11:2). Once more the plain reference is to persons, and to persons only.

The last mention is in 1 Peter 1:2 “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.” Who are “elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father”? The previous verse tells us: the reference is to the “strangers scattered,” i.e., the Diaspora, the Dispersion, the believing Jews. Thus, here too the reference is to persons, and not to their foreseen acts.

Now in view of these passages (and there are no more) what Scriptural ground is there for anyone saying God “foreknew” the acts of certain ones, viz., their “repenting and believing,” and that because of those acts He elected them unto salvation? The answer is: None whatever. Scripture never speaks of repentance and faith as being foreseen or foreknown by God. Truly, He did know from all eternity that certain ones would repent and believe, yet this is not what Scripture refers to as the object of God’s foreknowledge. The word uniformly refers to God’s foreknowing persons.
A.W.Pink

Is all of that Pink or is the first part your brilliance? If it isn't, I still say you are brilliant.

That is a good post and it nails it down.

 

[fastfredy0]

Is all of that Pink or is the first part your brilliance?

My brilliance is based on a 20,000 lumen light bulb hanging over my head. Figuratively speaking, I'm usually in the dark.

All Pink. He went on to say:
The word “foreknowledge” is not found in the Old Testament. But “know” occurs there frequently. When that term is used in connection with God, it often signifies to regard with favor, denoting not mere cognition but an affection for the object in view. “I know thee by name” (Exodus 33:17). “Ye have been rebellious against the LORD from the day that I knew you” (Deuteronomy 9:24). “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee” (Jeremiah 1:5). “They have made princes, and I knew it not” (Hosea 8:4). “You only have I known of all the families of the earth” (Amos 3:2). In these passages “knew” signifies either loved or appointed. In like manner, the word “know” is frequently used in the New Testament, in the same sense as in the Old Testament. “Then will I profess unto them, I never knew you” (Matthew 7:23). “I am the good shepherd and know My sheep and am known of Mine” (John 10:14). “If any man love God, the same is known of him” (1 Corinthians 8:3). “The Lord knoweth them that are His” (2 Titus 2:19).

 

[Eleanor]

The word “foreknowledge” as it is used in the New Testament is less ambiguous than in its simple form “to know.”

But doesn't the "pro" in "proginosko" mean "before". . ."to know before"?

If every passage in which it occurs is carefully studied, it will be discovered that it is a moot point whether it ever has reference to the mere perception of events which are yet to take place. The fact is that “foreknowledge” is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons. It is persons God is said to “foreknow,” not the actions of those persons. In proof of this we shall now quote each passage where this expression is found:

What about 2 Pe 3:17 - "since you already know (proginosko) this," i,e, that false teachers are coming (chp 2)?

The first occurrence is in Acts 2:23. There we read, “Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.” If careful attention is paid to the wording of this verse, it will be seen that the Apostle was not there speaking of God’s foreknowledge of the act of the crucifixion, but of the Person crucified: “Him [Christ] being delivered by...”

The second occurrence is in Romans 8:29-30 “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called.” Weigh well the pronoun that is used here. It is not what He did foreknow, but whom He did. It is not the surrendering of their wills nor the believing of their hearts, but the persons themselves, that are here in view.

“God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew”—(Romans 11:2). Once more the plain reference is to persons, and to persons only.

The last mention is in 1 Peter 1:2 “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.” Who are “elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father”? The previous verse tells us: the reference is to the “strangers scattered,” i.e., the Diaspora, the Dispersion, the believing Jews. Thus, here too the reference is to persons, and not to their foreseen acts.

Now in view of these passages (and there are no more) what Scriptural ground is there for anyone saying God “foreknew” the acts of certain ones, viz., their “repenting and believing,” and that because of those acts He elected them unto salvation? The answer is: None whatever. Scripture never speaks of repentance and faith as being foreseen or foreknown by God. Truly, He did know from all eternity that certain ones would repent and believe, yet this is not what Scripture refers to as the object of God’s foreknowledge. The word uniformly refers to God’s foreknowing persons.
A.W.Pink