Is belief a choice?

[Carbon]

There is a tree in my yard. That is a fact. Whether I believe it or not.
There are many reasons why I could deny that fact. I could be blind. I could be rebellious and argumentative (not a tree, that is a little stunted shrub!) I could be imaginative, thoughtful denying the concept of private property or who could own a yard and certainly not a tree.
That doesn't change the fact. What I choose to believe, or accept/deny, argue or conceptually philosophize is whatever we want to believe.

Well sure it does, you just destroyed your own argument. And by your first seven words.
And sealed it by the next four

The tree still exists, whether I believe it or not.
So how are we convinced of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)?
We are convinced of God by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
It is not my seeing, believing, philosophizing
It is by the grace of God that I believe.

So it is not a choice anymore than I can change the fact or deny the fact of the tree.
The tree exists...

Sorry, but it's obviously a silly argument. May I recommend something? Think things over before you present them.

 

[QVQ]

Well sure it does, you just destroyed your own argument. And by your first seven words.
And sealed it by the next four

The argument is that God exists. A person can believe it or not but it doesn't change the fact of the existence of God. So how to find the 'fact of God."
Ask God. And when a person asks God then God responds to prayer through the Holy Spirit. If God responds then it cannot be denied that God exists.

It is not a choice because it is not a belief. It is a certainty of fact. Even what the OP states, reading, studying and thinking must be in reverent prayer.

I believed in Jesus because it became evident that he was who the scripture says he was, I just knew he was.

How do you just know Jesus? Through the Grace of God (the Holy Spirit) through prayer.

Perhaps this will clarify my earlier post. Do you still have disagreement?

 

[Carbon]

There is a tree in my yard. That is a fact. Whether I believe it or not.
There are many reasons why I could deny that fact. I could be blind. I could be rebellious and argumentative (not a tree, that is a little stunted shrub!) I could be imaginative, thoughtful, "life is but a dream, therefore trees do not really exist"
That doesn't change the fact. What I choose to believe, or accept/deny, argue or conceptually philosophize does not change the fact.
The tree still exists and that is a fact. I cannot "choose" otherwise.

The tree still exists, whether I believe it or not.
So how are we convinced of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)?
We are convinced of God by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
It is not my seeing, believing, philosophizing
It is by the grace of God that I believe.

Because you see that tree in your backyard as a fact that it is there, and accept it as true, since you claim it is a fact, there is no good reason why you should call it into question. Acceptance of this has no influence on your life whatsoever. Whether or not you believe that tree is actually there or not has no influence on your life. Whatever you believe about it does not change the course of your life in the least bit.

Now those who do not have saving faith, but historical faith, accept the truths of the Bible in much the same way. They believe them with their minds but have no vital interest in them. And being indifferent with respect to them, they show no earnest desire to mould their life in accord with them. They believe that the word of God is true, but meanwhile, their hearts remain as cold as ice.
They may even trust the various deliverances of scripture, but these truths do not become part and parcel to their soul. These truths do not become a living power within them and do not direct them towards God, since they believe with their heads and not with their hearts. The truths in scripture do not stir them in the depths of their being and neither does it prove to be the controlling force of their life. So, this historical faith, being merely intellectual assent to the truth of God, does not strike deeply in the heart and neither does it bend the will in a Godward direction.
It does not cause men to humble themselves before God @Bob Carabbio to cry out to God to be merciful to me a sinner.

 

[Carbon]

How do you just know Jesus? Through the Grace of God (the Holy Spirit) through prayer.

How do, or did I know Jesus?

I can see it much more clearly than I did when I was first born again.

Because the Holy Spirit did His work of regeneration, and hearing the gospel which is the power unto salvation.

 

[PeanutGallery]

Stick around, pull up a chair, and relax for a while. You do like to learn also, don't you? And, I'd like to hear more from you about how faith is really just a wish..

But, then again, my faith as a wish, is decreed/ordained by God.

 

[QVQ]

They may even trust the various deliverances of scripture, but these truths do not become part and parcel to their soul. These truths do not become a living power within them and do not direct them towards God, since they believe with their heads and not with their hearts. The truths in scripture do not stir them in the depths of their being and neither does it prove to be the controlling force of their life. So, this historical faith, being merely intellectual assent to the truth of God, does not strike deeply in the heart and neither does it bend the will in a Godward direction.
It does not cause men to humble themselves before God

Absolutely Agree!
Believing with the mind that can be choice but when belief is part and parcel of a our souls.. a fact is a fact.

 

[Carbon]

But, then again, my faith as a wish, is decreed/ordained by God.

Then again, I suppose it would be. Does that make you feel any better?

 

[PeanutGallery]

You won't necessarily remain that way (only God knows); and, we need to tell people the truth, whether they will listen or refuse.

They will remain as such, until such time as God changes decrees/ordains otherwise; that is consistent Calvinism.

 

[PeanutGallery]

Then again, I suppose it would be. Does that make you feel any better?

Feeling better or not, are decreed/ordained by God, I can do no other.

 

[Carbon]

Feeling better or not, are decreed/ordained by God, I can do no other.

You are a pretty intelligent person from what I remember. So do you have anything to add to the thread? Or would you rather play? Because you wore that out already.

 

[PeanutGallery]

You are a pretty intelligent person from what I remember. So do you have anything to add to the thread? Or would you rather play? Because you wore that out already.

I do not play, I am being consistent with Calvinism; I do as decreed/ordained by God. Asking me if I would rather play, would reveal your belief that man can freely choose.

 

[Carbon]

I do not play, I am being consistent with Calvinism; I do as decreed/ordained by God. Asking me if I would rather play, would reveal your belief that man can freely choose.

Well, I think you should study and become more educated about Calvinism if that is your passion. This way you can become more consistent if that is what you desire to do.

I'll have nothing more to say to you until you decide to actually discuss the op.

 

[ReverendRV]

Is God's decree, that I should believe that Calvinism is unacceptable, consistent with your OP?

Changing the Subject?

 

[Carbon]

Changing the Subject?

I do believe so. Though this person is pretty smart, he's never been able to prove these things wrong. He would rather change the subject.

 

[His clay]

Are there many here who do not like or accept Calvinism? For those who do not, do you think it is a Christian system? If not, what is suggested for the Calvinist who thinks he’s Christian? Or is it the other way around?
And the anti-Calvinist’s are wrong,
This could be quite confusing for many people.

Well I personally do not believe that any man has the ability to choose to believe. I mean. How can someone choose to believe anything?
You might like something and think it is interesting but if there really is no evidence? Why would anyone or should I say, how can anyone believe it. Can someone make themselves believe? I don’t think so.

How can someone believe then? "They must have evidence."And by another person explaining something to you is not evidence, that’s information. Which puts it right back at the beginning again.

So how do we get evidence? I think in this may be the answer. From reading/studying and thinking it over, I believed in Jesus because it became evident that he was who the scripture says he was, I just knew he was.
Not because people told me who he was or what he did. If I had to believe, or, “make myself believe” I don’t know if I could have gone it. I mean, how?

When dealing with the nature of saving faith, we need to be dealing with what scripture says. Is there a particular passage that explains your points? I'm glad that you are raising a critical issue, but we must agree on the methodology for answering it.

Questions below must be answered with scripture
What is saving faith?
Is there a difference between mental assent to the truth of something and saving faith?
Are there clear biblical examples that illustrate saving faith?

 

[Carbon]

When dealing with the nature of saving faith, we need to be dealing with what scripture says. Is there a particular passage that explains your points? I'm glad that you are raising a critical issue, but we must agree on the methodology for answering it.

Questions below must be answered with scripture
What is saving faith?
Is there a difference between mental assent to the truth of something and saving faith?
Are there clear biblical examples that illustrate saving faith?

Fair enough.

An example of historical faith?
26 For the king knows about these things, and to him I speak boldly. For I am persuaded that none of these things has escaped his notice, for this has not been done in a corner. 27 King Agrippa, do you believe the prophets? I know that you believe.” Acts 26:26-27,

King Agrippa subscribed with his mind the trustworthiness of the OT scriptures. He accepted as truth all the promises and threats contained in them. But for all that and all that he continued to pursue his ungodly and wicked course.

Consider Jesus as another example of having historical believers in mind in, Matthew 7:24-27 24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

Or another good example of historical faith is this, For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. James 2:26.

 

[Carbon]

When dealing with the nature of saving faith, we need to be dealing with what scripture says. Is there a particular passage that explains your points? I'm glad that you are raising a critical issue, but we must agree on the methodology for answering it.

Questions below must be answered with scripture
What is saving faith?
Is there a difference between mental assent to the truth of something and saving faith?
Are there clear biblical examples that illustrate saving faith?

In scripture, there are examples and teaching of faith that comes from the regenerated heart, saving faith. And it is proven by its fruits.

 

[Carbon]

When dealing with the nature of saving faith, we need to be dealing with what scripture says. Is there a particular passage that explains your points? I'm glad that you are raising a critical issue, but we must agree on the methodology for answering it.

Questions below must be answered with scripture
What is saving faith?
Is there a difference between mental assent to the truth of something and saving faith?
Are there clear biblical examples that illustrate saving faith?

There are many passages that demonstrate saving faith.

 

[fastfredy0]

Is belief a choice?​

Yes.

My answer probably needs clarification. We freely desire (not forced) to believe salvificly or not believe salvificly.
Behind the scenes it is God that causes us to believe salvificly via regeneration. The default is to not believe salvificly in which case God does not have to do anything.
Digging deeper: God has caused us to have a sin nature so unless He intervenes we will always freely desire (not forced) to not believe salvificly.

 

[fastfredy0]

What is saving faith?

The belief that God/Christ can save a person from sin and trusting in that knowledge; the effect of which is to make Christ your Lord which entails obedience.

Is there a difference between mental assent to the truth of something and saving faith?

Yes. One must also trust in what he assents to. Trust leads to obedience.

Are there clear biblical examples that illustrate saving faith?

Yes ... all the apostles are clear examples of saving faith.