Is belief a choice?

[brightfame52]

peanut gallery

The ones who live by faith are not fools.

They not natural men. Scripture teaches man is foolish by nature in his unregenerate condition

 

[fastfredy0]

Do you agree God gives His chosen ones that which He required of them?

Hmmm .... yes and no. God has a sovereign will so God gets His way (decree) in ALL things. God also has a moral will which is, among other things, that we not sin but we do sin.

Now, if the question pertains to what is required of the chosen be saved, then I say a big YES. I think that the context of the question.

God creates, in His chosen ones, the capacity to believe in the moment of regeneration. Through regeneration, we are given evidence, we can see the kingdom (Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3.) It is by grace we are saved (Eph 2:8) Irresistible grace.

Agreed.

.... but you describe our faith as "Forced Consent" (Carbon: psychologically speaking, saving faith, just as well as any other kind of faith, is forced consent. )
... I disagree with your adjective "forced". I say we desire to believe after being regenerated and this is not forced.

Now, I agree that regeneration my be forced upon us (I'd have to think on that), but the resulting faith is not forced (done against your wishes).

Aside: I think our disagreement may be semantics or perspective .... nothing major.

 

[Carbon]

Hmmm .... yes and no. God has a sovereign will so God gets His way (decree) in ALL things. God also has a moral will which is, among other things, that we not sin but we do sin.

Okay.

Now, if the question pertains to what is required of the chosen be saved, then I say a big YES. I think that the context of the question.

Alright.

Agreed.

.... but you describe our faith as "Forced Consent" (Carbon: psychologically speaking, saving faith, just as well as any other kind of faith, is forced consent. )
... I disagree with your adjective "forced". I say we desire to believe after being regenerated and this is not forced.

Well, since it was not part of your fallen nature, it is forced consent. We can agree to disagree.

Now, I agree that regeneration my be forced upon us (I'd have to think on that), but the resulting faith is not forced (done against your wishes).

Aside: I think our disagreement may be semantics or perspective .... nothing major.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Evil men can do good things, as opposed to evil things.

You said that evil men can do good things, and I replied, "I guess that depends on how you are defining good."

My hope is that you can see how what you said here doesn't really clarify anything. You essentially said, "Good is the opposite of not-good."

Instead of asking how you're defining good, perhaps I should ask, "Are you defining good at all?" Maybe your usage isn't defined, which would be a more important issue. In other words, when you say that evil men can do good things, do you know what you're talking about?

"Apart from God" in what way? God gave us life, a conscience, choice. Is that what you mean?

No, I mean apart from the grace and power of God.

God gives us choices, yes, but that's not what we're talking about here. You said evil men can make a particular kind of choice, namely, to do good.

"Apart from God?" I asked.

 

[brightfame52]

fastfredy

Hmmm .... yes and no. God has a sovereign will so God gets His way (decree) in ALL things. God also has a moral will which is, among other things, that we not sin but we do sin.

Does God get His way when men sin against His Moral will ? Yes or No

 

[PeanutGallery]

...
Instead of asking how you're defining good, perhaps I should ask, "Are you defining good at all?"...

What we should ask is how did Jesus define good:
Matt 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

...
No, I mean apart from the grace and power of God.

God gives us choices, yes, but that's not what we're talking about here. You said evil men can make a particular kind of choice, namely, to do good.

"Apart from God?" I asked.

Apart from the grace and power of God; seems like you would need to define grace and power.

 

[fastfredy0]

Does God get His way when men sin against His Moral will ? Yes or No

Aside: You need to put an "@" in front of a person's ID to ensure they get a message addressed to them.

God ALWAYS gets what His sovereign will wishes. Obviously, God moral will is violated.
Ephesians 1:11b according to the purpose of Him who works everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His will,

 

[Ritajanice]

Aside: You need to put an "@" in front of a person's ID to ensure they get a message addressed to them.

Yes Sir....You make me chuckle, ..

 

[fastfredy0]

Yes Sir....You make me chuckle

Hopefully you chuckle with me as often as at me.

 

[brightfame52]

Aside: You need to put an "@" in front of a person's ID to ensure they get a message addressed to them.

God ALWAYS gets what His sovereign will wishes. Obviously, God moral will is violated.
Ephesians 1:11b according to the purpose of Him who works everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His will,

thats good to know that you understand that its Gods will that people violate His commandments, even when people dont believe the Gospel and perish in unbelief.

 

[civic]

thats good to know that you understand that its Gods will that people violate His commandments, even when people dont believe the Gospel and perish in unbelief.

God delivers from evil / sin and does not cause evil/ sin.

Matthew 6:9-13
“Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 ‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 ‘Give us this day [e]our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

John 17:15
I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.

2 Timothy 4:18
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

2 Thessalonians 3:2-3
And that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.

1 Chronicles 4:10
And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.

Psalm 121:7,8
The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul…

Jeremiah 15:21
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

God delivers from evil / sin and does not cause evil/ sin.

Matthew 6:9-13
“Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 ‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 ‘Give us this day [e]our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

John 17:15
I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.

2 Timothy 4:18
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

2 Thessalonians 3:2-3
And that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.

1 Chronicles 4:10
And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.

Psalm 121:7,8
The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul…

Jeremiah 15:21
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.

hope this helps !!!

When People sin are they violating Gods Sovereign will ?

 

[brightfame52]

God delivers from evil / sin and does not cause evil/ sin.

Matthew 6:9-13
“Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 ‘Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 ‘Give us this day [e]our daily bread.
12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

John 17:15
I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one.

2 Timothy 4:18
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom; to Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

2 Thessalonians 3:2-3
And that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone.

1 Chronicles 4:10
And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.

Psalm 121:7,8
The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul…

Jeremiah 15:21
And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.

hope this helps !!!

When Eve made the decision to disobey God and hearken to the voice of the serpent, was she doing what God Sovereignly decreed and purposed for her to do ? Yes or No

 

[civic]

When Eve made the decision to disobey God and hearken to the voice of the serpent, was she doing what God Sovereignly decreed and purposed for her to do ? Yes or No

Get back to me with a question once you have addresses the scriptures I posted.

 

[fastfredy0]

God delivers from evil / sin and does not cause evil/ sin.

The verses you posted show that God can deliver from evil; not that God always delivers from evil.
None of your verses support the idea that God does (or does not) cause evil. (maybe James 1:13, but there's alternative explanations for that)

Get back to me with a question once you have addresses the scriptures I posted.

O.K. ... you can answer @brightfame52 questions.

*sits back to see what happens next*

 

[brightfame52]

Get back to me with a question once you have addresses the scriptures I posted.

I have no problem with the scriptures you posted. However you seem to be evading my question.

When Eve made the decision to disobey God and hearken to the voice of the serpent, was she doing what God Sovereignly decreed and purposed for her to do ? Yes or No

 

[fastfredy0]

When Eve made the decision to disobey God and hearken to the voice of the serpent, was she doing what God Sovereignly decreed and purposed for her to do ? Yes or No

Yes .... aside: I hope there are prizes for the correct answer
No = dualism or/and deism

 

[fastfredy0]

*sits back to see what happens next*

I wonder if we get rewards in heaven for getting these question right.
... probably get a tongue lashing like Job *gulp* ... glad we have an intermediary

 

[Carbon]

I have no problem with the scriptures you posted. However you seem to be evading my question.

When Eve made the decision to disobey God and hearken to the voice of the serpent, was she doing what God Sovereignly decreed and purposed for her to do ? Yes or No

Maybe if you were a little more soft-spoken you wouldn't scare so many people away.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes .... aside: I hope there are prizes for the correct answer
No = dualism or/and deism

Hey fast, I wasnt directing the question to you this time, you already answered, so we good.