How Do We honor God the Father in Worship?

[ChristB4us]

And here is your problem. The prayer was NOT to be like Peter and John.
You plucked that out of the air somewhere!

Act 4:29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness,

Who must continue! (according to you not Peter and John!)

@Fred & @civic

Feel free to continue to pull verses out of context without following along by how it started in who is saying those words in that prayer.

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.

24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Does that include Peter & John who heard their own report? No. Read on and see no break in their prayer to God.

25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Evidence of them being a new community of saved believers; that company of 5,000 potential believers in Jesus Christ from when Peter & John were arrested from earlier that had not received the Holy Ghost yet.

As it is, you guys are applying that incident against scripture in the N.T. that goes against how you apply that to mean and therefore since scripture cannot go against scripture, you are not rightly dividing the word of truth as there is no more filling of the Holy Spirit to be had.

How can you apply this warning from Paul about those preaching another Jesus or another spirit which you had not received as if a continual filling of the Holy Spirit is required thru out the life of a saved believer, thus another gospel?

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

By believing that supernatural phenomenon by that extra filling of the Holy Spirit as you infer that to mean in Acts, then you cannot stop those in those apostate movement of the "spirit" from using your misapplication of His words in Acts to validate that phenomenon which is not of Him.

A believer in another forum believes he has to be filled with the Spirit supernaturally before he speaks for Jesus Christ & yet I had shared this with him, but to no avail even though he is thinking about it as to what to say by praying about it which Jesus said not to do.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Better ask Jesus Christ for His wisdom in applying His words rightly because scripture cannot go against scripture for why many are taking verses out of context and thus not sharing the truth in His words thus without meaning to; validate that which they do not believe is of the Lord like holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit; being drunk in the spirit, seeking a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as that Azusa Street Revival had emphasized and all those other phenomenon like being drunk in the spirit was happening there too.

Again ask Jesus at that throne of grace because what you say is not of the truth for why apostasy can apply what you say to validate their apostasy.

 

[civic]

@Fred & @civic

Feel free to continue to pull verses out of context without following along by how it started in who is saying those words in that prayer.

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.

24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Does that include Peter & John who heard their own report? No. Read on and see no break in their prayer to God.

25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Evidence of them being a new community of saved believers; that company of 5,000 potential believers in Jesus Christ from when Peter & John were arrested from earlier that had not received the Holy Ghost yet.

As it is, you guys are applying that incident against scripture in the N.T. that goes against how you apply that to mean and therefore since scripture cannot go against scripture, you are not rightly dividing the word of truth as there is no more filling of the Holy Spirit to be had.

How can you apply this warning from Paul about those preaching another Jesus or another spirit which you had not received as if a continual filling of the Holy Spirit is required thru out the life of a saved believer, thus another gospel?

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

By believing that supernatural phenomenon by that extra filling of the Holy Spirit as you infer that to mean in Acts, then you cannot stop those in those apostate movement of the "spirit" from using your misapplication of His words in Acts to validate that phenomenon which is not of Him.

A believer in another forum believes he has to be filled with the Spirit supernaturally before he speaks for Jesus Christ & yet I had shared this with him, but to no avail even though he is thinking about it as to what to say by praying about it which Jesus said not to do.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Better ask Jesus Christ for His wisdom in applying His words rightly because scripture cannot go against scripture for why many are taking verses out of context and thus not sharing the truth in His words thus without meaning to; validate that which they do not believe is of the Lord like holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit; being drunk in the spirit, seeking a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as that Azusa Street Revival had emphasized and all those other phenomenon like being drunk in the spirit was happening there too.

Again ask Jesus at that throne of grace because what you say is not of the truth for why apostasy can apply what you say to validate their apostasy.

Why does Paul command believers to be filled with the spirit ?

Believers are commanded to walk in the spirit

Believers are commanded not to quench the spirit

Believers are commanded not to grieve the spirit

Believers are commanded to bear the fruit of the spirit

Should I go on ?

 

[ChristB4us]

Why does Paul command believers to be filled with the spirit ?

If you are referring to this;

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

The fruit of the Spirit is singular as inferring that by having the Holy Spirit, you have all of those fruit of the Spirit.

So temperance which is self control is applied in Ephesians 5:18 by remaining sober thus remaining filled ( past tense ) with the Spirit rather than sowing to the flesh by drinking wine in excess by how drunkeness comes and one loses temporarily that self control by.

Otherwise you, who did not believe in the Second Blessings, how do you defer Ephesians 5:18 from believers using that reference in that apostate movement for seeking a filling of the Spirit in that wise?

Believers are commanded to walk in the spirit

Right, as opposed to walking after the flesh, but we look to Jesus Christ as the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily; not by seeking a filling of the Holy Spirit supernaturally again and again and again.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Believers are commanded not to quench the spirit

In context, Paul did say what it was they were not to quench the Spirit by, which is by not despising prophesy.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings.

Believers are commanded not to grieve the spirit

If a born again believer believes in the second blessing or that they can become mediums to contact ghosts continuous basis, as they would for a continual filling of the Spirit supernaturally, that would be grieving the Holy Spirit in us. We are not to walk after the rudiment of the world.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

You cannot receive again that which you had received. That would be denying the One you had received in hypocrisy.

Jesus said we would never seek to be filled again after salvation. There is no other way to apply His words below to mean.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Jesus said as saved believers, we are not leaky vessels in need of a constant filling.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

So obviously since scripture cannot go against scripture, by His grace & by His help, I am rightly dividing the word of truth here.

Believers are commanded to bear the fruit of the spirit

Should I go on ?

We are commanded to place our confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His glory as we walk through this valley of death as we rely on Him to help us to follow Him by giving us the fruits of righteousness hence the fruit of the Spirit that is in us for why we are always Spirit-filled, so we can mortify the deeds of the body by the Spirit daily. No supernatural filling required, but a confidence in the Lord Jesus to do this.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

 

[civic]

If you are referring to this;

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

The fruit of the Spirit is singular as inferring that by having the Holy Spirit, you have all of those fruit of the Spirit.

So temperance which is self control is applied in Ephesians 5:18 by remaining sober thus remaining filled ( past tense ) with the Spirit rather than sowing to the flesh by drinking wine in excess by how drunkeness comes and one loses temporarily that self control by.

Otherwise you, who did not believe in the Second Blessings, how do you defer Ephesians 5:18 from believers using that reference in that apostate movement for seeking a filling of the Spirit in that wise?

Right, as opposed to walking after the flesh, but we look to Jesus Christ as the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily; not by seeking a filling of the Holy Spirit supernaturally again and again and again.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In context, Paul did say what it was they were not to quench the Spirit by, which is by not despising prophesy.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings.

If a born again believer believes in the second blessing or that they can become mediums to contact ghosts continuous basis, as they would for a continual filling of the Spirit supernaturally, that would be grieving the Holy Spirit in us. We are not to walk after the rudiment of the world.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

You cannot receive again that which you had received. That would be denying the One you had received in hypocrisy.

Jesus said we would never seek to be filled again after salvation. There is no other way to apply His words below to mean.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Jesus said as saved believers, we are not leaky vessels in need of a constant filling.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

So obviously since scripture cannot go against scripture, by His grace & by His help, I am rightly dividing the word of truth here.

We are commanded to place our confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His glory as we walk through this valley of death as we rely on Him to help us to follow Him by giving us the fruits of righteousness hence the fruit of the Spirit that is in us for why we are always Spirit-filled, so we can mortify the deeds of the body by the Spirit daily. No supernatural filling required, but a confidence in the Lord Jesus to do this.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Eph 5 verse is but the fruit of the Spirt , you are conflating it with Gal 5.

 

[ChristB4us]

Eph 5 verse is but the fruit of the Spirt , you are conflating it with Gal 5.

I was not applying it to Galatians address on the fruit of the Spirit as opposing the works of the flesh listed there but addressing the first half of that verse in Ephesians 5:18 as opposing that singular work of the flesh of drunkenness which is a work of the flesh by being sober, remaining filled as in be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

To avoid the past tense of being drunk, one remains filled with the Spirit instead. It is just a call to remain sober.

 

[Manfred]

24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Why are you excluding Peter and John as not praying and being part of those who lifted their voice in prayer.
You are supposing they just hung around there!

They with one accord, does not exclude Peter and John.

 

[civic]

Why are you excluding Peter and John as not praying and being part of those who lifted their voice in prayer.
You are supposing they just hung around there!

They with one accord, does not exclude Peter and John.

correct !

 

[ChristB4us]

Why are you excluding Peter and John as not praying and being part of those who lifted their voice in prayer.

Because they were already preaching the word of God with boldness by the Holy Ghost already in them.

You are supposing they just hung around there!

Peter & John reported to these potential believers and these potential believers were amazed and prayed to God that they too may speak the Word of God with boldness like Peter & John.

They with one accord, does not exclude Peter and John.

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. 24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

Verse 24 limits that one accord to those that heard Peter's & John's report.

 

[Manfred]

Because they were already preaching the word of God with boldness by the Holy Ghost already in them.

Why don't you read the scriptures!

Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

What does continued mean. Who continued to preach with boldness. Those who had already preached with boldness including Peter and John were filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to preach with boldness!

You are totally unable to read the scriptures correctly it seems.
Do not let your pride stand in the way of discerning the scriptures correctly.

 

[donadams]

What sacrifice are you offering?

 

[Fred]

What sacrifice are you offering?

Prayer is a service of the heart.

 

[ChristB4us]

Why don't you read the scriptures!

Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

What does continued mean. Who continued to preach with boldness. Those who had already preached with boldness including Peter and John were filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to preach with boldness!

You are totally unable to read the scriptures correctly it seems.
Do not let your pride stand in the way of discerning the scriptures correctly.

@Fred & @civic

Read the whole thing to the end. These were the new believers, the 5,000 that Peter & John was preaching to when they got arrested in the middle of that conversion. When they were released into their company, the 5,000 potential believers, they were amazed at Peter & john and wanted to speak the word of God like Peter & John; hence Peter & John do not need to pray like that when they already were.

And so these new believers prayed and got saved. We can know they were new believers because of how they changed their lives afterwards in selling everything they have and giving it to the apostles to distribute it evenly among the new community of believers.

There is no more supernatural filling of the Holy Spirit in the life of a saved believer. Anything apart from salvation is not of Him no matter how spectacular it was or is like getting a healing or a supposed casting out of devils when one lose self control & fall backwards or getting tongues for private use which is not of Him at all.

Believers do not always call it a filling of the Spirit but another baptism of the Holy Ghost. One author has a book testifying to 3 baptisms with the Holy Ghost and the former co worker / pastor was telling me abut that book but added he believes there are 5 baptism with the Holy Ghost as if from his own personal experience.

BALONEY!

They are not understanding Acts for why they are expounding on it because they want to believe that spirit as in that phenomenon is of God when it is not at all.

You need His wisdom for how and why Luke is writing Acts in that way and that is to testify how His disciples were speaking by the Holy Spirit and not from themselves. Just like being kicked out of a city and they dusted off their feet and yet rejoice in walking away as readers would wonder, are they insane because they imagine them to get mad and defy that city but instead, hey waled away with joy as by the Holy Ghost and not by some natural reaction of man.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; ....

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

So the next time you read a disciple being filled with the Spirit before speaking or responding to being kicked out, that is what Luke is trying to convey in how they are doing that. Luke is not testifying to a supernatural filling as if that is to occur before they can do that.

Filled with the Spirit would be the same as being led by the Spirit as I see Luke is meaning in the Book of Acts.

But as far as new believers like in Acts 4, you guys need discernment from the Lord to understand that without going against scripture in the N.T.

 

[Manfred]

Read the whole thing to the end. These were the new believers, the 5,000 that Peter & John was preaching to when they got arrested in the middle of that conversion.

No, you are wrong.

All those in the upper room on the day of Pentecost is included.

Nothing but wishful thinking on your side.

Even if it was only the 5000 you are trying to convince yourself that they did not receive the Spirit upon their conversion but only later.

Stop speaking heresy.

 

[donadams]

Prayer is a service of the heart.

Offering sacrifice is a requirement of worship!

You changed worship to a prayer meeting!

It’s not a Bible study or prayer meeting but a covenant
Thanks

 

[Fred]

Offering sacrifice is a requirement of worship!

You changed worship to a prayer meeting!

It’s not a Bible study or prayer meeting but a covenant
Thanks

According to Luke 2:37 one of the ways Anna rendered latreuō was by her prayers.

Jesus referred to the Temple (where sacrificial worship took place) as a "House of prayer. (Matthew 21:13)


You changed prayer into something that isn't worship when the Bible teaches the exact opposite!

 

[ChristB4us]

No, you are wrong.

All those in the upper room on the day of Pentecost is included.

Nothing but wishful thinking on your side.

Even if it was only the 5000 you are trying to convince yourself that they did not receive the Spirit upon their conversion but only later.

Stop speaking heresy.

Explain why then they decided to sell all that they have afterwards and lay it at the apostles' feet for them to distribute it evenly among this community unless they were all new believers?

If they were already believers, why didn't they do that before? Ask Jesus about that.

 

[donadams]

According to Luke 2:37 one of the ways Anna rendered latreuō was by her prayers.

Jesus referred to the Temple (where sacrificial worship took place) as a "House of prayer. (Matthew 21:13)


You changed prayer into something that isn't worship when the Bible teaches the exact opposite!

Prayer is good and necessary and even part of worship but it does not constitute worship in itself. Thanks

 

[donadams]

Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[Fred]

Prayer is good and necessary and even part of worship but it does not constitute worship in itself. Thanks

Prayer is worship but worship encompasses other things as well (fasting, etc.)

There.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Agra Man]

You honor the father by worshipping him in spirit and truth
it is not about if you are worshipping father Jesus or the holy spirit that isn't the point.

It is about the experience with him thethe envelopement of it your not just worshiping him your worshipping with him. When you experience true worship it is supernatural every single time the holy spirit is all around you your body feels whole and warm the joy that cannot even be considered the word joy is unspeakble the intimacy with him how you are in him now the glory and honor you give him as he dances with you in song the spirit singing with us giving him the glory and honor we so desperately want to shoot at him but cannot muster it for enough is never enough.

Speaking what we cannot giving what we cannot the deep graoning that occurs inside not having the words to speak it or the amount
This is the key to opening the floodgates of heaven this is where he reveals the hidden deep things this is where you and him have a whole other level with each other.


Those who worship in spirit and truth will know God.