Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[ChristB4us]

It is the likely event that this practice has crept into the Christian churches due to the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D., I would ask anyone here to prove by the scripture "this practice" of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

The modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. introduced that practice and yet there are no scriptural support for that practice, let alone teaching that is how we are to worship.

This is NOT about doubting the Holy Spirit is God NOR denying the Holy Spirit as One of the Three Witnesses within the One God.

This is about proving by the scriptures that is how God the Father wants us to honor Him & worship Him by.

As far as I can tell, across many Christian forums, nobody cares to address it nor prove it while some go off on a tangent trying to prove the Trinity doctrine as if that makes it okay to do that practice. It does not.

So the question would spin back on me and that is are there any scriptural references that would omit the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? Are there any scriptural references that specifically cites how God the Father wants us to come to Him by and to honor Him by at the exclusion of the Holy Spirit? Yes.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 5:22 is a standard of judgment that is being raised and John 5:23 is that judgment. The latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for honoring the Holy Spirit because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.
Then we have this. which many thinks this is only about salvation when this is how we are to come to God the Father by for anything.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That includes prayer;

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So how is God glorified?

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

What is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship, in obedience?

Philippians 2;5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

That God working in us is Jesus Christ;

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Look at how the role of the Holy Spirit for why He would lead us to testify of the Son ( john 15:26-27 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:13-14 ) not only in outward ministry but in worship as well.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When we are instructed as such below in witnessing...

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Then that is how the Holy Spirit will serve as a witness of Jesus Christ by not speaking of Himself in seeking His own glory but of the Son in seeking His glory. Then that is how the Holy spirit will lead us in worship since the glory of God rests on His Son and that is to the glory of God the Father.

What happens when believers take their eyes off of the Son in worship & focus on the Holy Spirit?

The holy laughter movement ......even the 700 Club has been led astray in not seeing it as apostasy.

HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church?

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Why would God allow this strong delusion to occur in the churches, thinking that is the Holy Spirit coming unto them? They were honoring the Holy Spirit and it happened. Then they invoke the Holy Spirit to come again, and it happened again, thus forgetting the commandment of His invitation of John 14:6 and prayer John 14:13-14. They worshipped the Holy Spirit and so you cannot prove to them that is not the Holy Spirit.

That is why Christian churches had better narrow the way in the worship place to avoid that work of iniquity whereby spirits of the antichrist as in seducing spirits can come in and take that worship away from the Son.

And yet the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take our eyes off of the Son in worship and so that is why that practice needs to be reproved as the Holy Spirit would not lead us to worship Himself with the Father & the Son so as to avoid the spirits of the antichrist that would come in with signs & lying wonders to cause many to go astray in these latter days where faith is hard to find.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[prism]

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

I have never cared for worshiping the Holy Spirit because of the quoted passage above. There are Charismatic Churches that cross that line though.
But since He is God according to the Athanasius Creed, why not?

 

[Fred]

I would ask anyone here to prove by the scripture "this practice" of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

1 Kings 8:38-39
whatever prayer...is made...then hear in heaven...for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men.

To be the proper recipient of prayer requires the knowledge of fully knowing the hearts of all people (see above).

This is what the Father knows (Acts 15:8).
This is what the Son knows (Acts 1:24).
This is what the Holy Spirit knows (1 Corinthians 2:10).

Thus, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit are the proper recipients of prayer.




Revelation 1:4-5
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come,
and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
and from Jesus Christ

J. I. Packer: the prayer for grace and peace from the Father, the Spirit, and Jesus Christ in Revelation 1:4-5 (would John have put the Spirit between the Father and the Son if he had not regarded the Spirit as divine in the same sense as they are?). (Concise Theology: A Guide to Historic Christian Beliefs, page 41, the boldface is mine)

 

[ChristB4us]

I have never cared for worshiping the Holy Spirit because of the quoted passage above. There are Charismatic Churches that cross that line though.
But since He is God according to the Athanasius Creed, why not?

I am not familiar with the Athanasius Creed but as I stated in the OP, the Holy Spirit is God and One of Three Witnesses within the Godhead, that is not how the Holy Spirit in us would lead us to do in worship but to honor the Son by testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son and thereby honoring and glorifying the Father.

And the reason for why not is to avoid the consequence as stated below.

What happens when believers take their eyes off of the Son in worship & focus on the Holy Spirit?

The holy laughter movement ......even the 700 Club has been led astray in not seeing it as apostasy.

HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church?

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Why would God allow this strong delusion to occur in the churches, thinking that is the Holy Spirit coming unto them? They were honoring the Holy Spirit and it happened. Then they invoke the Holy Spirit to come again, and it happened again, thus forgetting the commandment of His invitation of John 14:6 and prayer John 14:13-14. They worshipped the Holy Spirit and so you cannot prove to them that is not the Holy Spirit.

That is why Christian churches had better narrow the way in the worship place to avoid that work of iniquity whereby spirits of the antichrist as in seducing spirits can come in and take that worship away from the Son.

And yet the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take our eyes off of the Son in worship and so that is why that practice needs to be reproved as the Holy Spirit would not lead us to worship Himself with the Father & the Son so as to avoid the spirits of the antichrist that would come in with signs & lying wonders to cause many to go astray in these latter days where faith is hard to find.

 

[ChristB4us]

1 Kings 8:38-39
whatever prayer...is made...then hear in heaven...for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men.

To be the proper recipient of prayer requires the knowledge of fully knowing the hearts of all people (see above).

This is what the Father knows (Acts 15:8).

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; KJV

Not sure what your Bible version says but it does not specify the Father here.

I know the Father gives the Holy Ghost from other scriptures John 14:26 but also Jesus Christ baptizes us with the Holy Ghost as prophesied by John the Baptist even though I believe your reference to this verse is to infer the Father as that reference to God in knowing the heart.

This is what the Son knows (Acts 1:24).

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Again, same thing. Jesus is not specifically referenced here and so you could make that case that this verse also as inferring the Father. See? I know that Jesus is the Word of God searches the hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 but just wanting you to compare your first two references.

This is what the Holy Spirit knows (1 Corinthians 2:10).

I believe you are misreading that reference and so I should place it in context

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
The Holy Spirit referenced here is about the Holy Spirit knowing the deep things of God in searching all things. This is not a reference about the Holy Spirit knowing our hearts.

Thus, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit are the proper recipients of prayer.

That is where reproofs is needed here because it is an assumption not taught nor can it be found in scripture to support this conclusion.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....

.....13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Jesus is the only way to the Father and that is why all prayers goes through the Son. Even the silent intercessions of the holy Spirit within us, Jesus knows the mind of the Spirit to give the silent intercessions of the Holy Spirit to the Father for the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The will of God is that Jesus is the only Mediator between God and man to give the Spirit's silent intercessions, our intercessions, and the Son's own intercessions to the Father so that whichever intercessions the Father agrees to, it is only the Son that answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers and why we give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

To illustrate this further....

Do Catholics claims answers to prayers from the Virgin Mary and can even invoke a manifestations of the supposed Virgin Mary? Yes. Does that means the virgin Mary is God and can answers prayers now? No. How would you reprove that? By the verses I had cited above.

Do Catholics also pray to the Holy Spirit to get the gifts of the Spirit from the Holy Spirit? Yes. Does that mean that tongue for private use was given by the Holy Spirit since they had prayed to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit answered? No.

Do wayward believers that pray to the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them after various signs where also confusion reigns with believers losing self control and falling backwards means that God is the author of confusion in spite of 1 Corinthians 14:32-33? No.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. < ---- No exception.
Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

So how to avoid that? By applying the same verses towards the virgin Mary in the same way towards the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Ghost is not the recipient of prayers in Heaven when He is fulfilling His role as the Comforter by dwelling within us.

All that the Holy Spirit says and does, He defers that credit and glory to the Son.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Since Jesus is our access to the Father and has taught us to pray to the Father in His name, and both gives the Holy Ghost, your first 2 references can easily be applied to both of them as the Recipients of prayers as the One God.

But not towards the Holy Ghost as He is not the Recipient of our prayers in Heaven when He is dwelling within us as our Comforter.

Otherwise, you have a hard time explaining why demonic manifestations occurs when praying for the Holy Spirit to answer. So Jesus meant what He said and climbing up any other way is the work of iniquity.. the action of a thief.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber..... 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Revelation 1:4-5
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come,
and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
and from Jesus Christ

J. I. Packer: the prayer for grace and peace from the Father, the Spirit, and Jesus Christ in Revelation 1:4-5 (would John have put the Spirit between the Father and the Son if he had not regarded the Spirit as divine in the same sense as they are?). (Concise Theology: A Guide to Historic Christian Beliefs, page 41, the boldface is mine)

No matter how famous J.I. Packer is, you still have to prove all things by the scriptures with the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is only One Spirit and so it is an error to capitalize Spirit in that reference. The term "spirit" can also be referencing angels in scriptures.

Psalm 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Hebrews 1:7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

So compare this reference below

Revelation 3:1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 3:1 portion of "These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars;" is the Lord Jesus Christ saying this unto the angel of that church at Sardis.

Revelation 1:4-5 then are 7 angels as each angel is in regards to that specific church that Jesus is speaking to, to deliver that message to that church.

So J.I. Packer is wrong to assign those 7 spirits as the Holy Spirit being in between Christ and the churches in Revelation. It is understandable when someone had erroneously capitalized spirit in Revelation 1;4-5 when they should not have done so.

Further proof is how each address to the 7 churches is given unto the angel of that church in Revelation 2nd and 4rd chapters.

We are always growing in the Lord and learning something new everyday that even J.I. Packer had overlooked or not realized, but there it is.

I rely on Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd to help discern and confirm the word of truth to me and so He can do that for you too.

 

[Fred]

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; KJV

Not sure what your Bible version says but it does not specify the Father here.

Not sure what your theology says but it does not exclude the Father here.

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Again, same thing. Jesus is not specifically referenced here

Your confusion was already refuted here:

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/mystery-of-the-most-holy-trinity.1317/page-4#post-52902

Vincent's Word Studies: The seven Spirits (τῶν ἑπτὰ πνευμάτων)
The reference is not to the seven principal angels (Revelation 8:2). These could not be properly spoken of as the source of grace and peace; nor be associated with the Father and the Son; nor take precedence of the Son, as is the case here. Besides, angels are never called spirits in this book. With the expression compare Revelation 4:5, the seven lamps of fire, “which are the seven Spirits of God:” Revelation 3:1, where Jesus is said to have “the seven Spirits of God.” Thus the seven Spirits belong to the Son as well as to the Father (see John 15:26). The prototype of John's expression is found in the vision of Zechariah, where the Messiah is prefigured as a stone with seven eyes, “the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth” (Zechariah 3:9; Zechariah 4:10). Compare also the same prophet's vision of the seven-branched candlestick (Zechariah 4:2).
Hence the Holy Spirit is called the Seven Spirits; the perfect, mystical number seven indicating unity through diversity (1 Corinthians 12:4). Not the sevenfold gifts of the Spirit are meant, but the divine Personality who imparts them; the one Spirit under the diverse manifestations. Richard of St. Victor (cited by Trench, “Seven Churches”) says: “And from the seven Spirits, that is, from the sevenfold Spirit, which indeed is simple in nature, sevenfold in grace.”

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[ChristB4us]

Not sure what your theology says but it does not exclude the Father here.

That was not my point and if you had read the rest of my post, I was advocating that your first two references can include both the Father & the Son since They Both give the Holy Ghost and both are the recipient of prayers.

And hopefully, the Lord will help you to see why the Holy Spirit is not the recipient of prayer even though He is God and One of the three witnesses of the One God.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/mystery-of-the-most-holy-trinity.1317/page-4#post-52902

Vincent's Word Studies: The seven Spirits (τῶν ἑπτὰ πνευμάτων)
Paul nowhere joins the Spirit with the Father and the Son in his opening salutations. The nearest approach is 2 Corinthians 13:13. The reference is not to the seven principal angels (Revelation 8:2). These could not be properly spoken of as the source of grace and peace; nor be associated with the Father and the Son; nor take precedence of the Son, as is the case here. Besides, angels are never called spirits in this book. With the expression compare Revelation 4:5, the seven lamps of fire, “which are the seven Spirits of God:” Revelation 3:1, where Jesus is said to have “the seven Spirits of God.” Thus the seven Spirits belong to the Son as well as to the Father (see John 15:26). The prototype of John's expression is found in the vision of Zechariah, where the Messiah is prefigured as a stone with seven eyes, “the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth” (Zechariah 3:9; Zechariah 4:10). Compare also the same prophet's vision of the seven-branched candlestick (Zechariah 4:2).
Hence the Holy Spirit is called the Seven Spirits; the perfect, mystical number seven indicating unity through diversity (1 Corinthians 12:4). Not the sevenfold gifts of the Spirit are meant, but the divine Personality who imparts them; the one Spirit under the diverse manifestations. Richard of St. Victor (cited by Trench, “Seven Churches”) says: “And from the seven Spirits, that is, from the sevenfold Spirit, which indeed is simple in nature, sevenfold in grace.”

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The Holy Spirit cannot be the seven spirits when Jesus is speaking to the angel of each church, hence the spirit of that church in each address to that church, then those are your 7 spirits.

Revelation 2:1Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 3:1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

I am sure you will find many well known Christians that will push that misapplication of seven spirits in His words you seem to be defending but it is wrong. I believe because it was erroneously capitalized, is why they just assume that to be the Holy Spirit when those 7 spirits are not.

FYI The word spirit in the Greek is not capitalize in scripture.

 

[Fred]

That was not my point

Thus, the Father fully knows the hearts of all (Acts 15:8).

And hopefully, the Lord will help you to see why the Holy Spirit is not the recipient of prayer

That is not the same Lord of the Bible. You are confused.

even though He is God and One of the three witnesses of the One God.

The Holy Spirit cannot be the seven spirits when Jesus is speaking to the angel of each church, hence the spirit of that church in each address to that church, then those are your 7 spirits.

Assumption on your part. It reads "angel" in the passages you quoted.
The blessing is not to them in Revelation 1:4.

You ought to know that a blessing is a prayer.

Do you pray to angels?

 

[ChristB4us]

Thus, the Father fully knows the hearts of all (Acts 15:8).

Which also can include Jesus Christ.

That is not the same Lord of the Bible. You are confused.

What denomination are you?

Assumption on your part. It reads "angel" in the passages you quoted.

Seven spirits are the seven angels as there is only One Holy Spirit.

The blessing is not to them in Revelation 1:4.

You ought to know that a blessing is a prayer.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

That blessing in verse 3 is given to those that read the Book of Revelation.

You are confusing the introduction along with the greetings with the blessing. Is this Book coming from John or the Lord Jesus Christ? Easy to confuse that topic as well.

Do you pray to angels?

Nope.

 

[Fred]

Which also can include Jesus Christ.

Irrelevant. It does not exclude the Father.

So when I assert that the Father fully knows the hearts of all and I cite Acts 15:8 it is an accurate association.

What denomination are you?

Irrelevant.

Seven spirits are the seven angels as there is only One Holy Spirit.

You can keep asserting this, but a blessing is not ever said to another stemming from an angel.
You are against praying to the Holy Spirit (God), but your position affirms praying to angels.

Not a good place to be.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

That blessing in verse 3 is given to those that read the Book of Revelation.

I know the blessing is given to people but it is from the Triune God.
And not from a created being (your position).

 

[ChristB4us]

Irrelevant. It does not exclude the Father.

Which was not my contention. I merely pointed out that your reference did not specify the Father. Both of the forst 2 references of yours can be assigned to the father & the Son.

So when I assert that the Father fully knows the hearts of all and I cite Acts 15:8 it is an accurate association.

Being One with Christ the only Mediator between the Father and men, yeah.

Irrelevant.

If you are Catholic or Pentecostals or Charismatics, it would explain your obstinance when defending praying to the Holy Spirit.

You can keep asserting this, but a blessing is not ever said to another stemming from an angel.
You are against praying to the Holy Spirit (God), but your position affirms praying to angels.

Not a good place to be.

That blessing is from the apostle John when reading verse 3 in context. You are conflating the issue by assigning it to or from angels as if that was my position when you are trying to assign it as coming to or from the Holy Spirit as if the Holy Spirit are those 7 spirits in Revelation.

I can understand your unwillingness to believe the greats, like J.I. Packer, are wrong on this matter, and so I leave that to Jesus Christ to help you see that.

BUT if you believe praying to the Holy Spirit is okay for how holy laughter comes, along with slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, the late Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, where he would announce the Holy Spirit falling on already saved believers to get a healing or a casting out of devils, then I have to say you have departed from the faith in Jesus Christ and at risk of being left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event, even though you are still His and thus still saved.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

if you say you do not believe those movements of the spirit is of God, then explain why God would allow the devil to respond when praying to the Holy Spirit?

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....

.....7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....

.....
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So that is why the Holy Spirit is not answering any payers directed to the Holy Spirit but why God is permitting the devil is answering instead because that is considered as climbing up another way and going beyond what Jesus told us to do in coming to God the Father when Jesus is the only way for us to come to God the Father by in prayer.

I know the blessing is given to people but it is from the Triune God.
And not from a created being (your position).

if you are referring to Revelation 1:3 about the apostle John who is testifying to himself writing this Book of Revelation, as led by the Lord to do, then yeah. People can give blessings as I believe it was John writing that blessing in Revelation 1:3.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

Anyway, I disagree with you on this matter and so I leave you to God to minister to you since I cannot convince you of the truth in His words in the KJV.

 

[Fred]

Which was not my contention. I merely pointed out that your reference did not specify the Father.

It doesn't have to because by "God" it obviously does.

If you are Catholic or Pentecostals or Charismatics, it would explain your obstinance when defending praying to the Holy Spirit.

Try sticking to the facts. I know it is difficult for you to do especially when they are totally against your false doctrine.

That blessing is from the apostle John when reading verse 3 in context.

Based on the Triune God.

You are conflating the issue by assigning it to or from angels

No, that's you doing that.

as if the Holy Spirit are those 7 spirits in Revelation.

Which is true.

A blessing is a prayer. John blesses others with "grace and peace". You can insist that this comes from an angel in equality with the Father and the Son if you want, but I'll stick with the Holy Spirit (God) instead.

 

[Arial]

It is the likely event that this practice has crept into the Christian churches due to the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D., I would ask anyone here to prove by the scripture "this practice" of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

The modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. introduced that practice and yet there are no scriptural support for that practice, let alone teaching that is how we are to worship.

This is NOT about doubting the Holy Spirit is God NOR denying the Holy Spirit as One of the Three Witnesses within the One God.

This is about proving by the scriptures that is how God the Father wants us to honor Him & worship Him by.

As far as I can tell, across many Christian forums, nobody cares to address it nor prove it while some go off on a tangent trying to prove the Trinity doctrine as if that makes it okay to do that practice. It does not.

So the question would spin back on me and that is are there any scriptural references that would omit the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? Are there any scriptural references that specifically cites how God the Father wants us to come to Him by and to honor Him by at the exclusion of the Holy Spirit? Yes.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 5:22 is a standard of judgment that is being raised and John 5:23 is that judgment. The latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for honoring the Holy Spirit because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.
Then we have this. which many thinks this is only about salvation when this is how we are to come to God the Father by for anything.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That includes prayer;

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So how is God glorified?

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

What is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship, in obedience?

Philippians 2;5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

That God working in us is Jesus Christ;

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Look at how the role of the Holy Spirit for why He would lead us to testify of the Son ( john 15:26-27 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:13-14 ) not only in outward ministry but in worship as well.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When we are instructed as such below in witnessing...

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Then that is how the Holy Spirit will serve as a witness of Jesus Christ by not speaking of Himself in seeking His own glory but of the Son in seeking His glory. Then that is how the Holy spirit will lead us in worship since the glory of God rests on His Son and that is to the glory of God the Father.

What happens when believers take their eyes off of the Son in worship & focus on the Holy Spirit?

The holy laughter movement ......even the 700 Club has been led astray in not seeing it as apostasy.

HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church?

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Why would God allow this strong delusion to occur in the churches, thinking that is the Holy Spirit coming unto them? They were honoring the Holy Spirit and it happened. Then they invoke the Holy Spirit to come again, and it happened again, thus forgetting the commandment of His invitation of John 14:6 and prayer John 14:13-14. They worshipped the Holy Spirit and so you cannot prove to them that is not the Holy Spirit.

That is why Christian churches had better narrow the way in the worship place to avoid that work of iniquity whereby spirits of the antichrist as in seducing spirits can come in and take that worship away from the Son.

And yet the real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take our eyes off of the Son in worship and so that is why that practice needs to be reproved as the Holy Spirit would not lead us to worship Himself with the Father & the Son so as to avoid the spirits of the antichrist that would come in with signs & lying wonders to cause many to go astray in these latter days where faith is hard to find.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

You have reduced worshiping the Holy Spirit to one place, the manner in which it is done in many Charismatic churches. And I agree with your view of that phenomenon. But doing something in the wrong way does not preclude doing so in the right way. When I have more time, I will address the scriptures you give with other scriptures, and show where you have used them incorrectly to say that we are never to worship the Holy Spirit. A book you might read on the subject is John Owen's Communion With God.

 

[Mr GLee]

It is the likely event that this practice has crept into the Christian churches due to the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D., I would ask anyone here to prove by the scripture "this practice" of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

The modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. introduced that practice and yet there are no scriptural support for that practice, let alone teaching that is how we are to worship.

This is NOT about doubting the Holy Spirit is God NOR denying the Holy Spirit as One of the Three Witnesses within the One God.

This is about proving by the scriptures that is how God the Father wants us to honor Him & worship Him by.

The Holy Spirit of the Father, Christ (Abba) worked in the Son of man, Jesus. They promised (Genesis 3:15 with Isaiah 53) witness of two. Dynamic dual Three is a crowd .

The Trinity was developed to try and create a earthly family government after the oral traditons of dying mankind with the Queen of heaven destroying the household of faith (the invisible things of God )

 

[prism]

I am not familiar with the Athanasius Creed

Maybe that is half the problem...

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

 

[Mr GLee]

For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

One Holy Spirit of the Father. Our husband, Christ the anointing teacher.

His Holy Spirit mightily worked in the Son of man Jesus just as us today . The dynamic dual .

Three is a crowd.

Two, the one word that indicates one God has spoken, witnessed by two . (1) "Let there be" and (2) "it was the Father Abba alone good"

The law of faith = Christ's power working in us.

One teaching master not two.

 

[ChristB4us]

You have reduced worshiping the Holy Spirit to one place, the manner in which it is done in many Charismatic churches.

Actually, certain hymns in all hymnals in ALL churches has the address & worship of only the Holy Spirit and even one hymn where they address the Father in one stanza and then the Son in another stanza and finally the Spirit in the third stanza.

And yet the phenomenon of the holy laughter movement has broken out across the denominational divide across USA in 1997 as reported by the 700 Club.

The link I had provided earlier and am doing it again below has reported the holy laughter movement manifesting all over the world in various Christian churches as reported by 700 Club as given in 2022.

HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church?

The discernment here is that when it does occur without actually seeking that phenomenon, the church invokes the Holy Spirit to come "again" with those signs and wonders and the phenomenon happens again. So for you or anyone to say that was not the Holy Spirit, you will have a hard time convincing them of that when they had addressed and even worship the Holy Spirit when invoking for the "Holy Spirit" to come.

Side note; at Azusa Street Revival of 1906-1909, from which both Pentecostals and Charismatics have traced the origin of their denomination from, there was a variation of holy laughter there as well as slain in the spirit and being drunk in he spirit when focusing for a sign of having received the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, thus the result is no longer because of the preaching of the cross when giving an invitation to receive specifically the Holy Spirit after a sign which Jesus warned seekers not to do in Matthew 12:38-40

In Matthew 7:13-27, Jesus warned of false prophets broadening the way as it will be ecumenical in nature as gathering rapes of thorns and figs of thistles which those creeds created was doing and the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. succeeded in doing in broadening the way. No evil tree can produce a good fruit and no good tree can produce an evil fruit and so if some Pentecostals condemns holy laughter movement as not of the Lord to Charismatics, then they have to shun that tongue for private use as gained by seeking that phenomenon of receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit by a sign as in with evidence of tongues.

Even one Pentecostal tried to stop a slain in the spirit movement from happening in one church and it fell him, much to the amusement of one Charismatic reporting this online.

We cannot ignore this and brush it off as something too hard to understand as Jesus exposed all those miracles, as in wonderful works like healings and casting out of devils and visions with revelations as coming from workers of iniquities in Matthew 7:21-23 and yet testified to the consequence of not heeding His words of only coming to the Father by the way of the Son and only honoring the Father by only honoring the Son as led by the Holy Spirit in us to do or else suffer a thief to break through for not watching as many "houses" fall in loss of self control in Matthew 7:24-27.

Luke 13:24-30 gives the same warning for why many believers in the latter days will be left behind for not striving to enter through that straight gate.

Promoting the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, even worshipping the "blessed Trinity" is not the way to go. Although the phenomenon does not happen all the time, in according to Jesus's words, the offense to God the father is there when Jesus is the only way per John 14:6 and climbing up any other way is a thief, hence a worker of iniquity per John 10:1 as Jesus emphasized once again verily verily He is the door of the sheep John 10:7. In the reading of that warning of John 10:1-16, we see those that claim up another way are following a stranger's voice, hence tongues without interpretation and thus assumed for private use as gained for seeking that baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Even an Alliance church in Grove City in PA promotes the continual filling of the Holy Spirit when at one time, one began to speak in tongues and they excommunicated him from the church. Recently they had a guest speaker promoting the phenomenon of healings from experiencing the tenderness of Jesus, that even sinners do not need to come to Jesus but He will come to them to bring about healings. The pastor of that church added to that invitation for saved believers to seek a filling of the Holy Spirit for that healing to occur as well.

The Lord Jesus Christ protected me from being influenced to follow apostate calling just to get a healing.

And I agree with your view of that phenomenon. But doing something in the wrong way does not preclude doing so in the right way. When I have more time, I will address the scriptures you give with other scriptures, and show where you have used them incorrectly to say that we are never to worship the Holy Spirit. A book you might read on the subject is John Owen's Communion With God.

The term antichrist means instead of Christ and when there are spirits of the antichrist, thanks to Jesus, I understand that the real indwelling Holy Ghost would never take our eyes off of the Son in worship as He leads us to testify of the Son to glorify the Son and thereby honor and glorify God the Father and that is what scriptures has specifically told us to do but we allow that apostate Nicene creed to lead us astray still.

 

[ChristB4us]

The Holy Spirit of the Father, Christ (Abba) worked in the Son of man, Jesus. They promised (Genesis 3:15 with Isaiah 53) witness of two. Dynamic dual Three is a crowd .

The Trinity was developed to try and create a earthly family government after the oral traditons of dying mankind with the Queen of heaven destroying the household of faith (the invisible things of God )

1 John 5:7 regarding the Three Witnesses in Heaven does testify to the Triune God as that verse was originally and is scripture.

Is 1 John 5:7 not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s? If it is true, why is it in the KJV?

There are extrabiblical sources citing that 1 John 5:7 as far back as 200 A.D. in debates over the Trinity doctrine.

Jesus has testified of what the Holy Spirit will do as that separate Witness and that is to testify of the Son thru us in John 15:26-27 to glorify the Son John 16:13-14, and He will make silent intercessions for us per romans 8:26 that Jesus, as that "he" being the Word of God that searches our hearts in Romans 8:27 as conformed per Hebrews 4:12-16 is why the Holy Spirit has His own mind for Jesus in knowing the Spirit's silent intercessions for the Son to give to the Father. Romans 8:26 reports that the Holy Spirit cannot utter His own groanings out loud for why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit per Ephesians 4:30. Plus Jesus testified that the Holy Spirit will bring into remembrance of all things Jesus has taught us in john 14:26 and so that pretty much assign the Holy Spirit as a separate Person to serve as a separate Witness to count as a separate Witness to add to the testimony of God the Father that His witness of His Son as God is true at Jesus's water baptism..

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Holy Spirit had to do that in adding His testimony with the Father's verbal testimony from Heaven regarding His Son as God because that is what God expects men to do in giving a true testimony.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Deuteronomy 19:1515 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Consider that Jesus made the request to the Father to make man after our image and after our likeness and when the Father approved, Jesus as the Word of God created man after His image and after His likeness. Genesis 1:26-27 as confirmed in John 1:1-14

That was how God judged the people at the tower of Babel in Genesis 11th chapter as there were Three Witnesses within that One God where the request was made by the Word of God to let us go down and scatter them and when performing the act, the Lord did it..

Just as no one Person God could judge the world with that Biblical global flood, but the Triune God by the Word of God at the permissive will of the Father and the compliance of the Spirit of God, did that.

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

So as God commands for a testimony, so does He do Himself and has been since creation.

And yet God the Father commands us to go to Him by the only way provided and that is by His Son John 14:6 and the only way to honor the Father is by ONLY honoring the Son John 5:22-23 Whom the Holy Spirit in us has been sent to dwell in us to lead us to do the same because He is doing the will of the Father also in honoring the Son by testifying of the Son John 15:26 in seeking the glory of the Son John 16:14 and by Him, the glory of God the Father.

To honor the Holy Spirit which the Holy Spirit would never lead us to do, is not honoring the Son and therefore believers are no longer honoring the Father. That is why spirits of the antichrist comes in as they suffer a thief to break through by taking their eyes off of the son in worship.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That is the only way God the Father is glorified by and that is by glorifying His Son; that is the Father's will, not by glorifying the Holy Spirit nor by glorifying God the Father for wherec is the glory of God the Father for Himself alone? That is why the glory of God the Father is on His Son.

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

If we were all by ourselves, and you have no one else around, how would your private worship of the Son and thus the Father be recognized as a true witness to God unless led by the Spirit of God in you in doing the same thing in testifying of the Son in glorifying the Son? And so the Holy Spirt counts as that extra Witness for our special times of solitary worship of the Son in glorifying the Son and God the Father.

 

[Fred]

Actually, certain hymns in all hymnals in ALL churches has the address & worship of only the Holy Spirit and even one hymn where they address the Father in one stanza and then the Son in another stanza and finally the Spirit in the third stanza.

And yet the phenomenon of the holy laughter movement has broken out across the denominational divide across USA in 1997 as reported by the 700 Club.

The link I had provided earlier and am doing it again below has reported the holy laughter movement manifesting all over the world in various Christian churches as reported by 700 Club as given in 2022.

HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church?

The discernment here is that when it does occur without actually seeking that phenomenon, the church invokes the Holy Spirit to come "again" with those signs and wonders and the phenomenon happens again. So for you or anyone to say that was not the Holy Spirit, you will have a hard time convincing them of that when they had addressed and even worship the Holy Spirit when invoking for the "Holy Spirit" to come.

Side note; at Azusa Street Revival of 1906-1909, from which both Pentecostals and Charismatics have traced the origin of their denomination from, there was a variation of holy laughter there as well as slain in the spirit and being drunk in he spirit when focusing for a sign of having received the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, thus the result is no longer because of the preaching of the cross when giving an invitation to receive specifically the Holy Spirit after a sign which Jesus warned seekers not to do in Matthew 12:38-40

In Matthew 7:13-27, Jesus warned of false prophets broadening the way as it will be ecumenical in nature as gathering rapes of thorns and figs of thistles which those creeds created was doing and the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. succeeded in doing in broadening the way. No evil tree can produce a good fruit and no good tree can produce an evil fruit and so if some Pentecostals condemns holy laughter movement as not of the Lord to Charismatics, then they have to shun that tongue for private use as gained by seeking that phenomenon of receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit by a sign as in with evidence of tongues.

Even one Pentecostal tried to stop a slain in the spirit movement from happening in one church and it fell him, much to the amusement of one Charismatic reporting this online.

We cannot ignore this and brush it off as something too hard to understand as Jesus exposed all those miracles, as in wonderful works like healings and casting out of devils and visions with revelations as coming from workers of iniquities in Matthew 7:21-23 and yet testified to the consequence of not heeding His words of only coming to the Father by the way of the Son and only honoring the Father by only honoring the Son as led by the Holy Spirit in us to do or else suffer a thief to break through for not watching as many "houses" fall in loss of self control in Matthew 7:24-27.

Luke 13:24-30 gives the same warning for why many believers in the latter days will be left behind for not striving to enter through that straight gate.

Promoting the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, even worshipping the "blessed Trinity" is not the way to go. Although the phenomenon does not happen all the time, in according to Jesus's words, the offense to God the father is there when Jesus is the only way per John 14:6 and climbing up any other way is a thief, hence a worker of iniquity per John 10:1 as Jesus emphasized once again verily verily He is the door of the sheep John 10:7. In the reading of that warning of John 10:1-16, we see those that claim up another way are following a stranger's voice, hence tongues without interpretation and thus assumed for private use as gained for seeking that baptism with the Holy Ghost.

Even an Alliance church in Grove City in PA promotes the continual filling of the Holy Spirit when at one time, one began to speak in tongues and they excommunicated him from the church. Recently they had a guest speaker promoting the phenomenon of healings from experiencing the tenderness of Jesus, that even sinners do not need to come to Jesus but He will come to them to bring about healings. The pastor of that church added to that invitation for saved believers to seek a filling of the Holy Spirit for that healing to occur as well.

The Lord Jesus Christ protected me from being influenced to follow apostate calling just to get a healing.

The term antichrist means instead of Christ and when there are spirits of the antichrist, thanks to Jesus, I understand that the real indwelling Holy Ghost would never take our eyes off of the Son in worship as He leads us to testify of the Son to glorify the Son and thereby honor and glorify God the Father and that is what scriptures has specifically told us to do but we allow that apostate Nicene creed to lead us astray still.

Just because a person or people abuse a correct thing to do does not mean one should renounce doing the correct thing to do.

 

[ChristB4us]

Maybe that is half the problem...

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.

@Arial Take note of this dissenting and yet apostate view coming from as identified with this Catholic faith.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

Prism Did Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane 3 times that the cup of His coming crucifixion be passed from Him? was this not His desire? And yet He prayed that the Father's will be done and not His own.

That is why Jesus said God the Father is greater than He is, not that this means Jesus is not God, but it is the Father's will that be done and so there is no co-equalness in that regard. See?

And when it comes to the Holy Spirit, same thing; the will of the Father is to be done and the Holy Spirit is to serve as the Spirit of Christ now since from that time Jesus had ascended to Heaven.

That is how the Three are One as it is the authority of the Father that is to be done.

And when Jesus took our sins on the cross, Jesus had experienced that separation from the Father and when the light of the sun and the reflection of that full moon at Pentecost was gone and only the stars in the heavens could be seen, that was evidence that Jesus, as God Our Creator, was becoming God Our Redeemer and thus God Our Saviour.

The Holy Spirit & the Father did not die on the cross, Only the Lord Jesus Christ did, but all Three Witnesses within that One God raised Him from the dead.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Galatians 1;1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

Good news for you is that since you believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead, you are saved according to John 3;15-18 and Romans 10:8-17.

Catholicism tacked all those extras on for obtaining salvation is why the Catholic faith is voiding faith in Jesus Christ for why Catholics are at risk of being left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event, even though they are still His and thus still saved.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

As it is, Catholics need to narrow the way back to Jesus Christ to rest in him that they are saved and to trust Him to keep their focus on the Bridegroom in worship in order to truly honor the Father in glorifying the Father by only honoring and glorifying the Son as led by the Spirit of Christ in us to do.

Jesus meant this as stating the will of the father that He is the only way to come to the father in worship; not by another way as if the Holy spirt is another way to come to God the father by nor by the broad way as if by the blessed Trinity, but the narrow way, the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

I see no emphasis on the Catholic Church before nor afterwards for obtaining salvation. Do you?

So obviously the Catholic faith is NOT the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, but a thief that robs you of the joy of your salvation.

However, since you do believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead, and even though that Catholic faith is a work of iniquity that is denying Him as having saved you for believing in Him, as you are at risk of being left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event, you are still His, and you may die, but your spirits will be with the Lord in heaven to wait for your resurrection after the great tribulation to serve the King of kings on earth.

But I do hope in the Lord Jesus Christ that He will recover you from that lie of Catholicism and to narrow your focus on the Son in worship, prayer, and fellowship, since the Bridegroom will be coming soon for the abiding bride of Christ.