How Are We Saved?

[Eleanor]

1 Peter 1
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”[c]
And this is the word that was preached to you.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation

Thanks!

Yes, the word of God plays an important role in presenting the gospel to the sinner and calling him to repent and believe in Christ, but it is the new birth that gives him the power to hear, respond to and believe the word of God.

 

[civic]

Thanks!

Yes, the word of God plays an important role in presenting the gospel to the sinner and calling him to repent and believe in Christ, but it is the new birth that gives him the power to hear, respond to and believe the word of God.

Not from the texts I quoted. That would be reading into the text which the text does not state. You would have to arrive at your conclusion from another text. I'm not saying you are wrong or right.

 

[ChristB4us]

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit?

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Faith is granted and we do the believing.

By the grace of God we believe.

This is a confusing sentence.
If you are saying that faith does not come before regeneration then state that.

Faith comes at the receiving of the Holy Spirit & thus regeneration also.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Apples and oranges. The Father draws by the Holy Spirit.

Nope. Scripture plainly testifies the Father doing this drawing & giving us to the Son.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Flesh it out more and see exactly how the Holy Spirit will convict of sin.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

So the Holy Spirit will convict those who never believed in Jesus Christ; that is the unforgivable sin against the Holy Ghost.

I have no problem with that. How does God do the drawing, and when do you presume it starts?

At the hearing of the gospel.

Correct

I said that because the righteousness of Christ was not included.

For having offended you I do apologize.

No offense at all when correcting one another in Christ's love. It is His ministry in iron sharpening iron as we will give the Lord the credit.

 

[Eleanor]

Not from the texts I quoted. That would be reading into the text which the text does not state. You would have to arrive at your conclusion from another text. I'm not saying you are wrong or right.

Yes, the correct understanding of the NT is in light of and in agreement with all of the NT.

 

[civic]

The correct understanding of the NT is in light of and in agreement with all of the NT.

I understand that for sure but from the texts I quoted we cannot arrive at your conclusion. The texts stand on their own that we are born again by the Spirit from the hearing of the word of God, the gospel. We should not read our doctrine into the text but let the text speak on its own. That is how we exegete a passage.

 

[Eleanor]

I understand that for sure but from the texts I quoted we cannot arrive at your conclusion. The texts stand on their own that we are born again by the Spirit from the hearing of the word of God, the gospel. We should not read our doctrine into the text but let the text speak on its own. That is how we exegete a passage.

The word of God does not contradict itself.
Our understanding of it is not correct if it is not in harmony with all the word of God.

 

[civic]

The word of God does not contradict itself.
Our understanding of it is not correct if it is not in harmony with all the word of God.

Are you saying we are not born again by the word of God as Peter and James taught under inspiration of the Holy Spirit ?

 

[ChristB4us]

Where do we find the Spirit comes by hearing the word of God?

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Regeneration and special manifestation (baptism) of the Holy Spirit are not the same operation, they are separate operations, one invisible, the other visible.

Water baptism is a sign of the new birth; i.e., renewing of the Holy Spirit, not the new birth/renewing itself, which is only by sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:7-8).

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghoste; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Eleanor]

Are you saying we are not born again by the word of God as Peter and James taught under inspiration of the Holy Spirit ?

Are you saying the word of God contradicts itself, or are you saying that it should be understood in agreement with all the word of God?

 

[Eleanor]

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Or was that an outward manifestation of their inner rebirth by the Holy Spirit which gave them ears that hear, enabling them to receive that word of God?

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghoste; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[civic]

Are you saying the word of God contradicts itself, or are you saying that it should be understood in agreement with all the word of God?

Scripture never contradicts itself its our human understanding that is the problem. I have no issue with harmonizing Peter and James passages stating we are born again through hearing the word of God , the gospel with any passage in the bible.

 

[Eleanor]

Scripture never contradicts itself its our human understanding that is the problem. I have no issue with harmonizing Peter and James passages stating we are born again through hearing the word of God , the gospel with any passage in the bible.

The sovereignty of the Holy Spirit in rebirth (Jn 3:7-8)?

He is controlled by the hearing of the word of God?

Or do we actually hear (receive) it because he has regenerated us?

 

[ChristB4us]

Or was that an outward manifestation of their inner rebirth by the Holy Spirit which gave them ears that hear, enabling them to receive that word of God?

No outward manifestation or sign was present since all children of God has received the promise of the Spirit with faith.

 

[ChristB4us]

The sovereignty of the Holy Spirit in rebirth (Jn 3:7-8)?

He is controlled by the hearing of the word of God?

Or do we actually hear (receive) it because he has regenerated us?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[ChristB4us]

that text does not say "saved by faith." What it does state is we are children of God by faith," NOT saved by faith. In order to argue that verse is evidence (or proof) of salvation BY faith you'd have to make the case of being saved and being children being identical and not the latter simply being a constituent element of the former. And you'd have to do that without running into conflict with all the scriptures about our adoption.

That text does not state, "saved by faith." There are even bigger problem used Romans 3:10 because the "word of faith," is not itself faith AND the moment confession or any other action is asserted as causal that becomes a works-based salvation. Scripture repudiates the causal basis of works in salvation.

Remember: salvation is about the sinfully dead and enslaved sinner being brought from death to life; dead in sin to alive in Christ. Prior to having been brought to life in Christ EVERYTHING in and of the sinner is a product of sinfully dead and enslaved flesh - even his "faith."

Therefore, option 1 in the poll should and must read "By the faith in Christ of the dead and enslaved flesh..." The faith of the regenerate is the faith of the already-saved. That faith cannot be what is implied or otherwise asserted in option 1.

I understand the necessity to add save by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, but there is a scriptural reference to being saved by faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Of course, taking that out of context without applying that to Jesus Christ, can start a lot of debates too, but the Lord shall help us to avoid that, I hope.

 

[Eleanor]

No outward manifestation or sign was present since all children of God has received the promise of the Spirit with faith.

Check out the book of Acts.

 

[Josheb]

I understand the necessity to add save by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, but there is a scriptural reference to being saved by faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Of course, taking that out of context without applying that to Jesus Christ, can start a lot of debates too, but the Lord shall help us to avoid that, I hope.

Nope.

Nowhere in the entire Bible will the words "saved by faith" be found. Nowhere. What will be found is a number of things that occur through faith and a number of things by faith, but none of the "by" faiths are salvation. None of them. We are justified by faith, but justification is not salvation. The two are not identical terms and should not be conflated or otherwise treated synonymously. The promise is guaranteed by faith, but neither the promise nor the guarantee is salvation. They are not terms identical to salvation and neither should be conflated or otherwise treated as synonymous with salvation. We have our introduction into God's grace by faith, but that introduction is not salvation. There's a lot of stuff like that in the NT. No one constituent element of salvation should ever be conflated with the whole. Every single reference of something that occurs by faith should be understood that way. Justification is a constituent element of salvation, NOT the whole of it.

The phrase "saved by faith" will not be found in scripture. We are saved by grace and that is found plainly stated in scripture.

Furthermore, if you look at the Greek the word "by" doesn't actually occur in Ephesians 2:8. The English translated the Greek using the word "by" because the Greek conjugation of "chariti" is an absolute action of God extending Himself by favor. It would be better translated to say, "God's sovereign assertion of his favor saved you...." Then when this is coupled with the next clause, "through faith" there is a through ("dia") in the Greek. Some read this to say it is through your faith that God extended his grace, but the very next clause precludes any and all possibility of reading the text that way because it explicitly states, "it is NOT of yourselves," and then adds "it is a gift." If grace is a result of faith, then it is a wage, not a gift.

One last point. As you survey the New Testament epistolary to verify what I just posted notice when the author is writing about Christians and when he is writing about non-Christians. You'll find most of the epistolary is written to Christians about Christians as Christians, and not about non-Christians and how non-Christians did something to become saved. Identify the audience about whom the text is written. Don't conflate non-believers with believers, and don't apply the attributes of the redeemed, regenerate, spirit-filled believer with the unregenerate, no-Spirit, non-believer who has only his sinfully dead and enslaved flesh. Well-meaning Christians make that mistake often.

 

[ChristB4us]

Check out the book of Acts.

I was saying this:

"No outward manifestation or sign was present since all children of God has received the promise of the Spirit with faith."

in respond to your quote here;

Or was that an outward manifestation of their inner rebirth by the Holy Spirit which gave them ears that hear, enabling them to receive that word of God?

We were discussing the topic of the receiving of faith & the Holy Ghost at salvation rather than any event in Acts.

Now because you had referred to the Book of Acts, are you saying that if no professing Christian has an outward manifestation when they were born again of the Spirit, then they do not have the Holy Spirit and therefore they are not saved?

To me, if any believer have faith in Jesus Christ is evidence enough they have been born again of the Spirit.

 

[ChristB4us]

Nope.

Nowhere in the entire Bible will the words "saved by faith" be found. Nowhere. What will be found is a number of things that occur through faith and a number of things by faith, but none of the "by" faiths are salvation. None of them. We are justified by faith, but justification is not salvation. The two are not identical terms and should not be conflated or otherwise treated synonymously.

I have to disagree with that. Justification is salvation.

Romans 3:26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Since faith is a fruit of the Spirit & when faith & Holy Spirit are received simultaneously at the hearing of the gospel, then when we believe, we had been saved because we believe. So justification & salvation have been done at the same time in order for us to believe in Jesus Christ by the grace of God.

The promise is guaranteed by faith, but neither the promise nor the guarantee is salvation. They are not terms identical to salvation and neither should be conflated or otherwise treated as synonymous with salvation. We have our introduction into God's grace by faith, but that introduction is not salvation. There's a lot of stuff like that in the NT. No one constituent element of salvation should ever be conflated with the whole. Every single reference of something that occurs by faith should be understood that way. Justification is a constituent element of salvation, NOT the whole of it.

The phrase "saved by faith" will not be found in scripture. We are saved by grace and that is found plainly stated in scripture.

Furthermore, if you look at the Greek the word "by" doesn't actually occur in Ephesians 2:8. The English translated the Greek using the word "by" because the Greek conjugation of "chariti" is an absolute action of God extending Himself by favor. It would be better translated to say, "God's sovereign assertion of his favor saved you...." Then when this is coupled with the next clause, "through faith" there is a through ("dia") in the Greek. Some read this to say it is through your faith that God extended his grace, but the very next clause precludes any and all possibility of reading the text that way because it explicitly states, "it is NOT of yourselves," and then adds "it is a gift." If grace is a result of faith, then it is a wage, not a gift.

One last point. As you survey the New Testament epistolary to verify what I just posted notice when the author is writing about Christians and when he is writing about non-Christians. You'll find most of the epistolary is written to Christians about Christians as Christians, and not about non-Christians and how non-Christians did something to become saved. Identify the audience about whom the text is written. Don't conflate non-believers with believers, and don't apply the attributes of the redeemed, regenerate, spirit-filled believer with the unregenerate, no-Spirit, non-believer who has only his sinfully dead and enslaved flesh. Well-meaning Christians make that mistake often.

Are you sure you can show the difference between saved by grace through faith from saved by grace by faith?

One believer made a big deal about believing IN Jesus Christ is different from believing ON Jesus Christ. I do not see the difference.

Romans 3:26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

John 6:Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Eleanor]

Nope.

Nowhere in the entire Bible will the words "saved by faith" be found. Nowhere. What will be found is a number of things that occur through faith and a number of things by faith, but none of the "by" faiths are salvation. None of them. We are justified by faith, but justification is not salvation.

Justification (Gr: dikaiosis) is a declaration of "not guilty," a sentence of acquittal, a finding of right standing with God's justice, a proclamation of time served, debt paid, guilt removed.
It is a forensic and imputed righteuosness (Ro 4:1-11), not an actual righteousness, which is imparted through obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, 19).

This justification (declaration of "not guilty") by faith is the result of forgiveness of sin, is salvation from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) through faith, not by works.