How Are We Saved?

[ezra]

Once you are born anew you will indeed. Where and to who else do we have to go?

you call upon him as a lost man to be saved/. you make it sound like to 12 step program with AA

 

[Carbon]

who made you the expert theologian ?

Well, thats not very nice.

i am well aware it was of my own power.

Though you think it was, it was not.

but by my spirit saith the Lord im still waiting on scripture from the bible that has the words--

Respectfully, you will be waiting a long time. You have no scripture support for that.

 

[Carbon]

you call upon him as a lost man to be saved

Sorry, but not according to scripture.

/. you make it sound like to 12 step program with AA

 

[ezra]

this is not working out at all this forum has turned into carm and the expert theologian was not to you. its the same old same old with much a Calvinism. your automatically wrong . i have no more desire to be here . its nothing more than the flesh i am leaving next time make it plain your forum is Calvinist based

 

[ChristB4us]

But in Acts, were not some who were baptized with the Holy Spirit some time after they believed, showing that baptism of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration, which is a ministry of the Holy Spirit required for faith, but separate from his baptism, which given both as a witness to the gospel, and as a special empowering, as in the apostles on Pentecost at the birth of the church?

If referring to Acts 4th chapter, Peter & John were interrupted when they were arrested and so upon their release, they went into that company of 5,000 potential believers that the 5,000 potential believers were so impressed with Peter & john that they prayed that they too would speak with boldness like Peter & John and then they got saved. This can be discerned by how they became a new community of believers that sold everything they had and laid it at the apostles' feet to distribute it evenly among this new community of saved believers.

If referring to Acts 8th chapter, Luke bothering to give the background to the Samaritans and infamous Simon the sorcerer in how he was the one afflicting these people in that area and so blamed him for it but here comes along Philip doing all these miracles that that paradigm shifted from Simon to Philip as they were following him around out if fanfare to see the miracles happening by him. They believed in the "things" he had reached about, the kingdom of heaven and the name of Jesus and even got water baptized in His name, but they were not coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for then they would have had received the Holy Spirit & thus the faith to believe in Jesus Christ, but following Philip out of fanfare.

So the Lord sent Peter & John down so that they may receive the Holy Ghost as not being seen as coming from Philip but again, that mentality was still there in Simon because he had assumed he could buy that power from Peter & John to give people the Holy Ghost and so they rebuked him in lifting his sights higher and he had asked them to pray for him thus he had received that rebuke in repentance.

Anyway, the Lord is patient in leading the potential believers away from coming to Philip and even Peter & John to be saved but to Jesus Christ.

Unless you are referring to some other event in Acts, I can only guess.

 

[Carbon]

this is not working out at all

I'm sorry to hear that.

this forum has turned into carm

Np, not at all.

and the expert theologian was not to you.

Huh? I don't understand.

its the same old same old with much a Calvinism. your automatically wrong .

I think for many, not saying you. That many cant prove a Calvinist wrong with scripture so the get very upset.

i have no more desire to be here

I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope you reconsider.

. its nothing more than the flesh i am leaving next time make it plain your forum is Calvinist based

I hope it's foundation is reformed. That's biblical.

 

[Eleanor]

they arent forgiven unless they believe first, even though Christ shed His Blood for them, correct ?

Correct, the blood is applied by faith, as it was applied by hyssop in the OT sacrifices.

 

[Eleanor]

scripture that says these exact words

How about experience of what goes on around me?

 

[Eleanor]

who made you the expert theologian ? i am well aware it was of my own power. but by my spirit saith the Lord im still waiting on scripture from the bible that has the words--

See post #93.

 

[ChristB4us]

this is not working out at all this forum has turned into carm and the expert theologian was not to you. its the same old same old with much a Calvinism. your automatically wrong . i have no more desire to be here . its nothing more than the flesh i am leaving next time make it plain your forum is Calvinist based

I am not Calvinist.

And I had asked them to the clarify a segment in their Statement of Faith but apparently, they see nothing wrong with it. Fortunately, they do not insists on agreeing with that Statement of faith to join the forum.

As for CARM, I have been there and their anti-KJVO stance in being prejudicial to all who prefer the KJV in spte of placing KJVO in a Theology section rather than the cult. Almost like baiting us. And at that time my personal computer was hacked and crashed twice. I could not tell if it was TalkJesus or CARM or something totally unrelated as my folks' home is not protected as there have been intrusions into the home at night and while we are away. For a while there though I had believed CARM had done it, but regardless the Lord has helped me to forgive whoever did it.

I thank the Lord He enables me to sleep at night in spite of the ongoing oppression and persecution going on in my life.

So think of what you share in the forum like investing your talents. You never know.

But if the Lord leads you away, then do so, forgiving them you leave behind as Christ has forgiven you.

Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[ezra]

many cant prove a Calvinist wrong with scripture so they get very upset.

i am not out to prove nothing. the same remarks in this forum is the same type remarks in carm.

 

[Alive]

i am not out to prove nothing. the same remarks in this forum is the same type remarks in carm.

Ezra, please give it a chance and use scripture to make your points. You are valued as a member of Christ.
We can disagree and remain one in His Love.

 

[Eleanor]

If referring to Acts 4th chapter, Peter & John were interrupted when they were arrested and so upon their release, they went into that company of 5,000 potential believers that the 5,000 potential believers were so impressed with Peter & john that they prayed that they too would speak with boldness like Peter & John and then they got saved. This can be discerned by how they became a new community of believers that sold everything they had and laid it at the apostles' feet to distribute it evenly among this new community of saved believers.
If referring to Acts 8th chapter, Luke bothering to give the background to the Samaritans and infamous Simon the sorcerer in how he was the one afflicting these people in that area and so blamed him for it but here comes along Philip doing all these miracles that that paradigm shifted from Simon to Philip as they were following him around out if fanfare to see the miracles happening by him. They believed in the "things" he had reached about, the kingdom of heaven and the name of Jesus and even got water baptized in His name, but they were not coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for then they would have had received the Holy Spirit & thus the faith to believe in Jesus Christ, but following Philip out of fanfare.
So the Lord sent Peter & John down so that they may receive the Holy Ghost as not being seen as coming from Philip but again, that mentality was still there in Simon because he had assumed he could buy that power from Peter & John to give people the Holy Ghost and so they rebuked him in lifting his sights higher and he had asked them to pray for him thus he had received that rebuke in repentance.
Anyway, the Lord is patient in leading the potential believers away from coming to Philip and even Peter & John to be saved but to Jesus Christ.

Unless you are referring to some other event in Acts, I can only guess.

Well, one of those I was thinking about is the Ethopian eunich later in Ac 8 who, when the gospel was explained to him, first believed and then was baptized, with no "baptism of the Holy Spirit" following.
He was regenerated by the Holy Spirit when he believed, but he did not receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit."

However, in Acts others were baptized with the Holy Spirit some time after they believed, showing that baptism of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration, because regeneration is an operation of the Holy Spirit required for belief/faith and, therefore, comes before.

Regeneration is separate from the Holy Spirit's baptism, which baptism is given as both a witness to the gospel, and as a special empowering, as in the apostles on Pentecost at the birth of the church.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration by the Holy Spirit. "Baptism" is for witness and special empowerment, after one's regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

 

[civic]

Well, one of those I was thinking about is the Ethopian eunich later in Ac 8 who, when the gospel was explained to him, first believed and then was baptized, with no "baptism of the Holy Spirit" following.
He was regenerated by the Holy Spirit when he believed, but he did not receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit."

But in Acts, were not some who were baptized with the Holy Spirit some time after they believed, showing that baptism of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration, which regeneration is an operation of the Holy Spirit required for faith.
Regeneration is separate from the Holy Spirit's baptism, which baptism is given as both a witness to the gospel, and as a special empowering, as in the apostles on Pentecost at the birth of the church.


Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration by the Holy Spirit. "Baptism" is for witness and special empowerment, after one's regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit may be defined as that work whereby the Spirit of God places the believer into union with Christ and into union with other believers in the body of Christ at the moment of salvation. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was predicted by John the Baptist (Mark 1:8) and by Jesus before He ascended to heaven: “For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:5). This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4); for the first time, people were permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and the church had begun.

First Corinthians 12:12–13 is the central passage in the Bible regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). Notice that we “all” have been baptized by the Spirit—all believers have received the baptism, synonymous with salvation, and it is not a special experience for only a few. While Romans 6:1–4 does not mention specifically the Spirit of God, it does describe the believer’s position before God in language similar to the 1 Corinthians passage: “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

The following facts are necessary to help solidify our understanding of Spirit baptism: First, 1 Corinthians 12:13 clearly states that all have been baptized, just as all been given the Spirit to drink (the indwelling of the Spirit). Second, nowhere in Scripture are believers told to be baptized with, in or by the Spirit, or in any sense to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This indicates that all believers have had this experience. Third, Ephesians 4:5 seems to refer to Spirit baptism. If this is the case, Spirit baptism is the reality for every believer, just as “one faith” and “one Father” are.

In conclusion, the baptism of the Holy Spirit does two things, 1) it joins us to the body of Christ, and 2) it actualizes our co-crucifixion with Christ. Being in His body means we are risen with Him to newness of life (Romans 6:4). We should then exercise our spiritual gifts to keep that body functioning properly as stated in the context of 1 Corinthians 12:13. Experiencing the one Spirit baptism serves as the basis for keeping the unity of the church, as in the context of Ephesians 4:5. Being associated with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection through Spirit baptism establishes the basis for our separation from the power of indwelling sin and our walk in newness of life (Romans 6:1-10; Colossians 2:12).got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Eleanor]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit may be defined as that work whereby the Spirit of God places the believer into union with Christ and into union with other believers in the body of Christ at the moment of salvation.

Salvation is at the moment of faith/believing/trusting on the atonement (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e.,"not guilty."

The "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is not regeneration (new birth of Jn 3:3-5), it is special empowerment for the sake of the gospel after regeneration.

The baptism of the Holy Spiri.t was predicted by John the Baptist (Mark 1:8) and by Jesus before He ascended to heaven: “For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit” (Acts 1:5). This promise was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4); for the first time, people were permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and the church had begun.

First Corinthians 12:12–13 is the central passage in the Bible regarding the baptism of the Holy Spirit: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). Notice that we “all” have been baptized by the Spirit—all believers have received the baptism, synonymous with salvation, and it is not a special experience for only a few. While Romans 6:1–4 does not mention specifically the Spirit of God, it does describe the believer’s position before God in language similar to the 1 Corinthians passage: “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

The following facts are necessary to help solidify our understanding of Spirit baptism: First, 1 Corinthians 12:13 clearly states that all have been baptized, just as all been given the Spirit to drink (the indwelling of the Spirit). Second, nowhere in Scripture are believers told to be baptized with, in or by the Spirit, or in any sense to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This indicates that all believers have had this experience.

Or, it indicates that it is not to be sought, but left to God to decide when the special empowerment is needed.

Third, Ephesians 4:5 seems to refer to Spirit baptism. If this is the case, Spirit baptism is the reality for every believer, just as “one faith” and “one Father” are.

However, Eph 4:5 is not referring to an inward and invisible baptism, but to outward water baptism which identifies all believers as belonging together (the unity of the Spirit)--one body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, baptism being the church ordinance in which every convert participated publicly.

Baptism is used metaphorically only of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, not in Eph 4:5.

 

[KatarinaVonBora]

The elect often don't respond to the gospel the first time they hear it.

Eleanor, can you quote a biblical verse for your statement? Jesus doesn't make mistakes. He predestines us. If He wants to save us. He will.

 

[KatarinaVonBora]

mthis is not working out at all this forum has turned into carm and the expert theologian was not to you. its the same old same old with much a Calvinism. your automatically wrong . i have no more desire to be here . its nothing more than the flesh i am leaving next time make it plain your forum is Calvinist based

I'm thinking you are pastor jerry. I'm pretty sure I used to see your posts at CARM. There is a saying that seems to be applicable here. "Wherever I go, I take me with me." Consider that the problem you are having is your own. Thriving forums have Calvinists users.

I hope you won't leave. The majority of us are reformed believers here but I have found that Arminians and Calvinists can get along without backbiting. You can have a different point of view.

Praying for you.

 

[Carbon]

i am not out to prove nothing. the same remarks in this forum is the same type remarks in carm.

I'm sorry you feel that way and have to compare it to Carm. Carm is a great forum, if there for the right reasons. There are a lot of good people there. On a forum, you can be sure of one thing sooner or later, debate.

I hope you reconsider. If not, I hope you may return after thinking it over. as you are welcome here.

 

[Eleanor]

Eleanor, can you quote a biblical verse for your statement? Jesus doesn't make mistakes. He predestines us. If He wants to save us. He will.

My own case. I didn't respond to the gospel the first time it was presented to me, nor the second time, nor the third, nor. . .

One can grow up hearing the gospel in church for years without responding to it.

 

[Carbon]

Ezra, please give it a chance and use scripture to make your points.

Yes.

You are valued as a member of Christ.
We can disagree and remain one in His Love.

Indeed